Goku vs. Cosmere Characters

[Patar]

We have seen fights that involve characters from the Cosmere fighting each other, but never fighting an opponent from another universe. The question is, if Goku were to fight the most powerful characters from the Cosmere, at their full potential, who would win?

 

The Combatants: 

Mistborn: Vin (with the power of Preservation)

Marsh (Steel Inquisitor)

The Lord Ruler

Kelsier

Elend

 

Stormlight Archive: Kaladin

Szeth

Dalinar (during his Blackthorn days)

Wit/Hoid

 

Elantris: Raoden

 

Warbreaker: Vasher

Susebron (after being restored)

Denth

 

Other rules:

Battle takes place in Elantris, so Raoden is at full power

Mistborn characters have plenty of every metal, including Atium

Stormlight characters have plenty of Stormlight

Warbreaker characters have plenty of Breath

Characters don't hold grudges (Lord Ruler and Kelsier are best buds)

 

Let me know if I left anything out, I made this rather quickly. What do you guys think?

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

Goku gets killed by anyone with a Shardblade. He never uses his full strength at the beginning so would be easy enough to hit. The Lord Ruler kills him easily as well. He is as fast and strong if not faster and stronger. Vin at the time you state is effectively a God so she wins.

[KamorianKandra]

At what time period is this for Goku? Because most recently, he has been shown to be able to hold his own against gods.

 

Goku gets killed by anyone with a Shardblade. He never uses his full strength at the beginning so would be easy enough to hit. The Lord Ruler kills him easily as well. He is as fast and strong if not faster and stronger. Vin at the time you state is effectively a God so she wins.

Goku is many, many times faster than the speed of light, and could lift 40 tons (80,000 lbs) while flying without being a super saiyan. As a super saiyan he was shown being able to lift the 40 tons effortlessly. Since then he has powered up to be able to become a super saiyan 2, 3, god, and god beyond. Therefore, I think he could beat The Lord Ruler in a fight.

[Redbird]

I wonder how well atium would work at someone moving greater than the speed of light, or just at compounded steel speeds.

[king of nowhere]

the question cannot be answered because the power of goku (or every other carachter in the dragonball universe) is totally inconsistent. I mean, near  the beginning of dragonball Z vegeta (I have only looked the italian cartoon, and I know some names have been changed. if you don't recognize some name, i will have to rectify)  was fully capable of destroying a planet by himself, before he even met goku. not just erdicating life from a planet, but reducing it to a debris field, which requires a much greater energy. then goku beat vegeta, then goku does some training at 100 g and it is difficult for him. he just defeated a guy who could summon the power of billions of billions of atmoic bombs, and he has troubles lifting 100 times his wheight? then a while later, after all the main characters could go at least supersahyan 2, and maybe 3, videl (a normal girl who absolutely lacks any kind of superpower) hits gohan and make a bruise on him. considering the energy levels they deal with, being hit by the dinosaur-killing asteroid should have done him no harm whatsoever, yet he get bruised from being hit by a regular person. even if we stay conservative, his skin is at least completely immune to modern artillery. just the fact mentioned above that he was able to lift 40 tons, and that was an achievement, shows how the guys who wrote it had absolutely no regard for measures. he already deal in planet-destroying forces. if nothing else, he had thrown people through mountains several times. think of how much strenght it takes to throw a body so that it pierces several kilometers of rock. and he needs to go supersahyan to lift 40 tons "effortlessly"?

So, any estimate on goku's power level can be off by at least 5 orders of magnitude. you just cannot seriously discuss how strong he is.

 

I have to say, dragonball is a complete breach of all of sanderson's laws. the "magic system" is very poorly defined and it is totally unclear who is stronger than whom (at least among opponents: most of the times, the power of an opponent is only shown in that he beats a protagonist, or is beaten). Yet  the whole plot resolution always lingers on people beating up each other. It also violates pretty much the "limitations before power" (I can't really think of anything goku cannot do, except beat someone even stronger than him) and the world goes wide instead of deep, with random elements added randomly from time to time. Its only rule seems to be "as long as it looks cool, run with it".  that I would say is the only good thing of the series, as my main reason for watching through all of dragonball, dragonball Z and part of dragonball GT was that I was just curious to see what happened next. that, and I found it fun, in a silly sort of way. still, I would never dream to watch it again.

[The Honor Spren]

Characters don't hold grudges (Lord Ruler and Kelsier are best buds)

 

What. . . Is. . . Wrong with you?

[Redbird]

What. . . Is. . . Wrong with you?

Basically how it is in DBZ, even if they wiped out whole cities, because now they are friends.

[ParadoxicalZen]

Hoid is nigh godlike anyway so pretty easy win there

Vin would only be able to do it if she had just literally taken up Preservation (or if she was playing support)

Kelsier DOA? cause he doesn't hold Preservation for long nor when he was alive would his allomancy be a match

Szeth would get pwned, Elend also

Dalinar mayhaps if he could land a blow with Oathbringer

Raoden would just concoct some Aon's reduce Goku to dust

 

But i'm with king of nowhere on this, DBZ has a inconsistent 'magic/power' system so it's pretty hard to say really

[Quiver]

To be fair. Some of the inconsistency comes from filler- Vegeta blowing up a planet early in the series was invented for the show rather than in the manga.

Personally, I have a theory that, in DBZ, power levels scale up as we go. We know from data books that Kid Gokuhad a power level of 10, whereas a farmer had 5. Gokus feats wwere multitudes more than the farmers even then, so 10 =/= twice as strong as five... and five is probably a decent average for "normal" humans in the Dragonballverse.

Considering Goku then became literally thousands of times stronger than that? I can't even imagine him fighting cosmere characters, because his power is so far beyond theirs.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Quiver

[Patar]

Just some clarification on this, the Cosmere characters are all fighting him at the same time, not 1 vs. 1

[Voidus]

Vin with Preservation is an incorporeal deity so she wins, TLR is so far as we know immune to death unless Goku had some very specific knowledge of how the mettalic arts worked and functionally infinite speed and cognitive perception through compounding.
So Goku can lift 40 tons? TLR can compound til he could lift 4000 if he felt so inclined. Indeed with the levels his Allomancy is at I wouldn't be too surprised if he could lift a few tons just from Allomantic pewter. Put Duralumin into the mix and he approachs levels that are just completely insane, Duralumin fueled compounding would stretch the limits of reality, he could tap so much weight that he became a black hole.
Against most other characters I'd give the win to Goku, with the possible exception of some SA characters who as has been pointed out have Shardblades

[skaa]

Personally, I have a theory that, in DBZ, power levels scale up as we go. We know from data books that Kid Gokuhad a power level of 10...

Considering Goku then became literally thousands of times stronger than that? ...

 

Sorry, can't resist.

 

Edited June 25, 2015 by skaa

[Quiver]

Vin with Preservation is an incorporeal deity so she wins, TLR is so far as we know immune to death unless Goku had some very specific knowledge of how the mettalic arts worked and functionally infinite speed and cognitive perception through compounding.

So Goku can lift 40 tons? TLR can compound til he could lift 4000 if he felt so inclined. Indeed with the levels his Allomancy is at I wouldn't be too surprised if he could lift a few tons just from Allomantic pewter. Put Duralumin into the mix and he approachs levels that are just completely insane, Duralumin fueled compounding would stretch the limits of reality, he could tap so much weight that he became a black hole.

Against most other characters I'd give the win to Goku, with the possible exception of some SA characters who as has been pointed out have Shardblades

 

I'm going to reply to this, but; I will grant that Lord Ruler is a problem. H'es pretty much the only non-Shard I can think of who might pose a problem.

(As for Shards, considering we know nothing about them, I'm inclinced to discount them- though being incorporeal, essentially godlike beings does give them an edge against him, and I suspect that they could take Goku, through sheer attrition of messing with the planet if nothing else).

 

The fact that the cosmere characters have weapons is kind of an issue, in part because it's not really clear how weapons affect people in the DBZverse. When it comes to blades, we have a handful of specific examples; Yajirobe cutting off Vegeta's tail, Trunks slicing Freeza to pieces- which suggest they can work if one's opponent is unprepared, or sufficently outclassed... but then, Goku was able to block Trunks' sword by charging a finger with ki, while Android 18 caught and snapped the damnation thing. 

 

Theoretically, I think a duralumin-powered coin could kill Goku, but it would be... exceptionally difficult to pull off. I think someone might have calculated the rate that the coin's move at, somewhere...?

But Goku is very, very fast. When he just arrived at Namek -prior to recieving his "near death" power up, or even regular Super Saiyan- he was faster than one of the fastest creatures in the universe*. In fact, he was fast enough that said speedster didn't even see Goku moving. And again; he got faster. Heck, standing-in-one-place superspeed was without any of his regular powerups, like kaioken.

 

(Personally, I also theorise that, at those levels, one's perception and cognitive awareness does increase, if only because otherwise you'd probably fly into a brick wall. It's also my explanation as to how a five minute timer for a planet's destruction can last twenty-odd episodes; the characters fighting are just that fast that time is relatively slower. Though I believe Toriyama clarified and said Freiza just made the five minute figure up, so, whatever.)

 

Dragonball Z can be inconsistent in what power levels actually scale out to in terms of feats, it's difficult for me to imagine someone who doesn't have MAJOR bonuses applied to them (such as TLR) being able to keep up physically with him.

 

*Granted, how trustworthy Burter's claim is is debateable. He couldn't have been the fastest, since Freiza outstripped him simply by keeping up with Goku. Then again, Freiza is kind of abnormal in that he didn't really fight much; so we can safely say that Burter was, at least functionally, the fastest.

[Edgedancer]

On Goku versus the Lord Ruler, given that the later never discovered the secret to worldhopping couldn't Goku just blow up whatever planet TLR is on and then teleport away? As for him versus a Shard, I wonder if the Spirit Bomb could absorb their Investure.

[Blaze1616]

As for him versus a Shard, I wonder if the Spirit Bomb could absorb their Investure.

 

That would depend on what Investiture actually is. If it's energy, then the Spirit Bomb would indeed be capable of absorbing it.

[DreamEternal]

On Goku versus the Lord Ruler, given that the later never discovered the secret to worldhopping couldn't Goku just blow up whatever planet TLR is on and then teleport away? As for him versus a Shard, I wonder if the Spirit Bomb could absorb their Investure.

Wasn't it implied by Brandon that TLR knew how to worldhop, or at least was aware it was possible, but never bothered with it because he was too busy managing an empire to go hoidhunting?

[Oudeis]

Sidenote: the Lord Ruler could have Worldhopped, and chose not to.

 

We've only seen Goku fight in the Physical Realm.

 

I think most of these people would, at least, be able to delay Goku. Some of them might die, but if Goku's not familiar with Stormlight or feruchemical gold, a few of the people who can recover from almost anything might be able to "sacrifice" themselves in ways they will recover from. Meantime, as someone pointed out, there is some Aonic equation that will simply circumvent Goku's defenses and kill him in some unpreventable way.

 

All that aside, Hoid surely has some way to enter the Cognitive Realm, if not the Spiritual, and do something to Goku's Spiritual or Cognitive aspect that would kill all three aspects of his being.

[Redbird]

That would depend on what Investiture actually is. If it's energy, then the Spirit Bomb would indeed be capable of absorbing it.

If they are sentient, doesn't it need to be voluntary? Not saying that some shards wouldn't help kill TLR.

[Edgedancer]

Sidenote: the Lord Ruler could have Worldhopped, and chose not to.

 

We've only seen Goku fight in the Physical Realm.

 

I think most of these people would, at least, be able to delay Goku. Some of them might die, but if Goku's not familiar with Stormlight or feruchemical gold, a few of the people who can recover from almost anything might be able to "sacrifice" themselves in ways they will recover from. Meantime, as someone pointed out, there is some Aonic equation that will simply circumvent Goku's defenses and kill him in some unpreventable way.

 

All that aside, Hoid surely has some way to enter the Cognitive Realm, if not the Spiritual, and do something to Goku's Spiritual or Cognitive aspect that would kill all three aspects of his being.

Unless of course that way of worldhopping involved a Shardpool, which Goku would just have blown up. (As well as Elantris, which makes Raoden kind of useless.)

 

On the healing front, they managed to obliterate Cell and Boo (who more or less wasn't mortal on a physical level on virtue of being pure magic) both of which have healing factors above everything we have seen in the Cosmere and even then Goku would just blast them faster than they can react, so there's no way they could ever land a hit on him.

 

As for Hoid offing him there's this WoB

 

Question

Finally, and most importantly, if all your protagonists had an epic all out brawl, who would win?

Brandon Sanderson

Some of them are immortal, but that would kind of be cheating. If you let people who are immortal participate, it's going to very much favor someone like Hoid, who is really, really, really hard to kill. Of course, he would not be very good at offing anyone either, because of certain things in his past. It would be really futile when it got down to the last two. But if we take that out.

Source: http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27hoid%27

 

If they are sentient, doesn't it need to be voluntary? Not saying that some shards wouldn't help kill TLR.

Yes but Shards are also invested in the planet itself, which gives away it's energy automatically so that may force Shards to give away their energy.

[Oudeis]

The crux of the problem has been brought up and is going to remain a sticking point... Goku wasn't designed to make sense, he was designed to just win everything. Since he doesn't follow any rules and never will, this is like asking who would win in a fight, an apple or the emotion of anxiety.

[king of nowhere]

Vin with Preservation is an incorporeal deity so she wins, TLR is so far as we know immune to death unless Goku had some very specific knowledge of how the mettalic arts worked and functionally infinite speed and cognitive perception through compounding.

So Goku can lift 40 tons? TLR can compound til he could lift 4000 if he felt so inclined. Indeed with the levels his Allomancy is at I wouldn't be too surprised if he could lift a few tons just from Allomantic pewter. Put Duralumin into the mix and he approachs levels that are just completely insane, Duralumin fueled compounding would stretch the limits of reality, he could tap so much weight that he became a black hole.

 

Now I'm picturing the lord ruler with goku's haircut. damnation you!

[Voidus]

Unless of course that way of worldhopping involved a Shardpool, which Goku would just have blown up. (As well as Elantris, which makes Raoden kind of useless.)

 

On the healing front, they managed to obliterate Cell and Boo (who more or less wasn't mortal on a physical level on virtue of being pure magic) both of which have healing factors above everything we have seen in the Cosmere and even then Goku would just blast them faster than they can react, so there's no way they could ever land a hit on him.

 

As for Hoid offing him there's this WoB

Source: http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27hoid%27

 

Yes but Shards are also invested in the planet itself, which gives away it's energy automatically so that may force Shards to give away their energy.

I wouldn't say Cell or Boo had healing factors beyond anything in the cosmere, certainly they might have been able to heal from more extreme injuries, cell being able to survive even from nearly total destruction if one cell was still alive (Though I will point out that Goku specifically did not manage to kill cell, Gohan did which is evidence that at least at that point in time Goku couldn't quite take out someone with a strong enough healing factor) but Cosmere characters have certainly shown themselves able to heal themselves remarkably quickly. Technically speaking Compounders like TLR have no upper limit on their healing speed, he could heal his entire body in one trillionth of a second if he compounded enough. 

 

But they also don't have to invest in planets like that if they don't want to, so it would still need to be voluntary. Plus making a spirit bomb able to absorb the entirety of a Shards investiture would take a rather long time.

[Oudeis]

The only rules Goku obeys are narrative causality; whatever the writers think will make a better story is what will happen, come Braize or highwater.

 

If this were taking place from the context of an episode of DragonBallZ, Goku would win.

 

If this were taking place from the context of a Sanderson novel, neither side would win. Something unpredicted yet foreshadowed and incredibly awesome would happen instead.

[Voidus]

The only rules Goku obeys are narrative causality; whatever the writers think will make a better story is what will happen, come Braize or highwater.

 

If this were taking place from the context of an episode of DragonBallZ, Goku would win.

 

If this were taking place from the context of a Sanderson novel, neither side would win. Something unpredicted yet foreshadowed and incredibly awesome would happen instead.

Goku does lose plenty of times, he just comes back to life eventually

[Oudeis]

Goku does lose plenty of times, he just comes back to life eventually

 

Fine then. Goku does get killed by an Aonic equation, travels to the afterlife... where Kelsier is waiting in ambush and uppercuts him as soon as he arrives.