Religions?

[The Honor Spren]

1 hour ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

you got pics of those purple pig tails? 

 

Sadly, no.  But I'm thinking of dying my hair again, this time in dark pink, so I'll definitely take pictures then

[Gavin-son-son-Odegard]

I've been looking through this thread, and it's refreshing to see a discussion about religion that remains so civil and friendly and accepting. It's something we definitely need more of. 

Anyway, I'm an agnostic myself. This is a belief I've come to after years and years of research and reflection and inner struggle and it's position that genuinely makes me happy to be in. A little background, I grew up in a Muslim household, though my parents were never overly-religious, my mom can be described as a non-practicing Muslim and my dad as ...ah, partially practicing (is that a thing?) so I had the freedom to kinda figure myself out, to a degree. There was a time that I truly believed in the fundamental teachings of Islam - even though I was never a fully practicing Muslim - but that was a long time ago.

I have nothing but respect for people who subscribe to religions of any kind, and wish them the best, but I personally don't think it's necessary for one to follow a religion in order to live a happy and healthy life. You can be compassionate and kind to your fellow human beings without religion, you don't need a deity to watch your every movement and action to be a kind and charitable person.    

I have a personal moral code which is a result of years of research and learning and thinking as well as my own personal world view. This is one of the things that I love most about being without religion, the freedom to live life on my own terms with my own moral code and not having to adhere to a central set of rules and codes set forth by another party. 

P.S. I love that we have pagans here. Since I'm woefully ignorant about pagan religions and would really love to learn more about them. 

[+Slowswift]

3 minutes ago, Gavin-son-son-Odegard said:

you don't need a deity to watch your every movement and action to be a kind and charitable person.    

Agreed. 

Though, the discussion about whether or not religious adherence is due to a Big Brother-type thing is a whole other can of worms.  

[Silverblade5]

Something recently shared with me: 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=FzxXvEtf9D0p

[Trizee]

So, as an orthodox jew living in Israel, I'd be interested to hear what the christians here think about the state of Israel. To my understanding, for centuries christian theology said that the jews were fated to be a nation without a home, constantly harassed and suffering. That actually happened to jews for centuries, but is no longer true. How do you deal with this, theologically?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

3 hours ago, Trizee said:

So, as an orthodox jew living in Israel, I'd be interested to hear what the christians here think about the state of Israel. To my understanding, for centuries christian theology said that the jews were fated to be a nation without a home, constantly harassed and suffering. That actually happened to jews for centuries, but is no longer true. How do you deal with this, theologically?

The Christian theology I was raised with actually framed the foundation of Israel as a very good thing. I....actually don't recall ever hearing that the Jews were fated to be a nation without a home; though I do remember hearing many times that scholars tried to reinterpret a prophecy that Israel would be a nation again, up until 1948 when it actually happened. The creation of Israel, then, was used as an example of how God keeps his promises to his people. 

[+Slowswift]

7 hours ago, Trizee said:

So, as an orthodox jew living in Israel, I'd be interested to hear what the christians here think about the state of Israel. To my understanding, for centuries christian theology said that the jews were fated to be a nation without a home, constantly harassed and suffering. That actually happened to jews for centuries, but is no longer true. How do you deal with this, theologically?

From the Articles of Faith:

Quote

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes;

Also,

3 hours ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

The Christian theology I was raised with actually framed the foundation of Israel as a very good thing. ... The creation of Israel, then, was used as an example of how God keeps his promises to his people. 

 

[Jondesu]

7 hours ago, Trizee said:

So, as an orthodox jew living in Israel, I'd be interested to hear what the christians here think about the state of Israel. To my understanding, for centuries christian theology said that the jews were fated to be a nation without a home, constantly harassed and suffering. That actually happened to jews for centuries, but is no longer true. How do you deal with this, theologically?

It's true that there were prophecies that that would happen to the nation of Israel, though they were never meant to be something to celebrate.  Most of those prophecies appear to be pointing at the exile to Babylon, anyways, but there were plenty of people who attributed them to the later centuries.  Regardless, the Jews are still God's Chosen People, even though he opened up salvation to all through Christ, and while I don't believe that means every Jew will go to heaven by any means (after all, there were plenty of evil Jews through history too, like Ahab, who I think we can all agree did not repent and won't be saved), I do believe he still cares for the Jews specifically and has a plan for them.  Many people think they will have a huge part to play in the end times, though it depends a lot on how literally you interpret the events of The Revelation of John.  I don't think it's meant to be literal, but even taken symbolically, Israel probably still will be important until the end of time, in some ways.  They might go through more times of really awful suffering, or they might spend most of the rest of time in their own land, but either way, there is a plan for them.

And by them, I should be saying you, although it's obviously more than just you personally.  I'm actually not sure if that's offensive or not (to say them instead of you, or vice versa), so apologies if it came across wrong.  That certainly wasn't intended if so.

[Delightful]

7 hours ago, Trizee said:

So, as an orthodox jew living in Israel, I'd be interested to hear what the christians here think about the state of Israel. To my understanding, for centuries christian theology said that the jews were fated to be a nation without a home, constantly harassed and suffering. That actually happened to jews for centuries, but is no longer true. How do you deal with this, theologically?

Chag Sameach!

*chants* one of us one of us one of us!

Edited April 16, 2017 by Delightful

[Erunion]

What @Jondesu said - the Israelis were and are God's chosen people. There have been pushes through history by Christians to say that the Jews have been replaced in Gods plan by the Christians - but that is an extremely divisive topic, one Christians still argue about. I fall firmly into the camp of believing that God still has a specific plan and place for Israel (and, as Jondesu said, you guys are either figuratively or literally key to the events in the Revelation, the events of the end times whenever those may be).

While I don't support all the actions of the state of Israel, I absolutely support the existence of the state of Israel. 

 

What you'll find through history is that a lot of the anti-Jewish theology was based off of either Roman politics or racism, usually a mixture of both. It has no place in scripture, for remember! Our New Testament was also written almost entirely by Jews! It is an incredibly Jewish book! Christianity is a religion "to the Jew first, and also to the Greek". While Jesus (Yeshua) predicted the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, he didn't call for it. He merely anticipated it. 

 

 

On another topic, Christ anticipated the destruction of His temple, and that he would raise it up again in 3 days. And so it is that Jesus the Christ is risen, on this third day from the Passover! Happy pascha/Easter to all my Christian friends here, and to all others as well, for Christ came for the whole world, he died for the whole world and is risen for the sake of all of us. 

[Jedal]

Well, my Jewish friend has just spammed my group chat saying "You worship a zombie". I laugh. Then my inflammatory Muslim not-so friend decides to use this as an opportunity to tell us why Jesus doesn't exist and everyone is a pig for not being Islamic and that we are all worse than him. Strange how some people use religion to mask their true beliefs, huh?

[Jondesu]

2 minutes ago, Jedal said:

Well, my Jewish friend has just spammed my group chat saying "You worship a zombie". I laugh. Then my inflammatory Muslim not-so friend decides to use this as an opportunity to tell us why Jesus doesn't exist and everyone is a pig for not being Islamic and that we are all worse than him. Strange how some people use religion to mask their true beliefs, huh?

Ouch. Was the Jewish friend just joking, I hope? Zombie Jesus jokes can be funny as long as they're not meant to be insulting, unlike what the other person said. And...I thought Muslims believed Jesus existed but was just a prophet, not that he didn't exist?

[EC11]

After going through so many threads on the web with acrimonious debates about religion let me just say this is a refreshing one!

On a personal note I identify as a Methodist myself, but I enjoy reading the holy books of other faiths (the Qur'an is a particular favorite). Theology in general fascinates me and it is one of the things which fuels some of my own random story ideas.

[Darkness Ascendant]

7 hours ago, EC11 said:

After going through so many threads on the web with acrimonious debates about religion let me just say this is a refreshing one!

On a personal note I identify as a Methodist myself, but I enjoy reading the holy books of other faiths (the Qur'an is a particular favorite). Theology in general fascinates me and it is one of the things which fuels some of my own random story ideas.

Mind sharing why you like the Qur'an?  

Same, alot of my story ideas are fueled by theology and mythology.

[EC11]

7 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Mind sharing why you like the Qur'an?  

Same, alot of my story ideas are fueled by theology and mythology.

Not at all! From a theological perspective it is fascinating, and though it doesn't really have what one would call a traditional narrative, it is interesting to read once you understand how to read it properly. Seeing the evolution in complexity and style of the Sura's is interesting for me. Some of it is very poetic, but I am often told it loses much in the translation to English 

[Left]

1 hour ago, EC11 said:

Not at all! From a theological perspective it is fascinating, and though it doesn't really have what one would call a traditional narrative, it is interesting to read once you understand how to read it properly. Seeing the evolution in complexity and style of the Sura's is interesting for me. Some of it is very poetic, but I am often told it loses much in the translation to English 

I agree. Reading the Qu'ran was a lot of fun. The first half especially. It can be far more beautiful than say....the Old Testament. Even when I believe a doctrine different from what is given in the Qur'an I still find the instructions on day to day life, being respectful and peaceful to people or being sober or the need for humility before deity, to be really awesome. In my translation, I think a lot of that stuff is presented far more clearly and elegantly than corresponding instruction in the Bible. If I didn't believe in my own faith so much I think I would probably be a muslim

[EC11]

3 hours ago, Left said:

I agree. Reading the Qu'ran was a lot of fun. The first half especially. It can be far more beautiful than say....the Old Testament. Even when I believe a doctrine different from what is given in the Qur'an I still find the instructions on day to day life, being respectful and peaceful to people or being sober or the need for humility before deity, to be really awesome. In my translation, I think a lot of that stuff is presented far more clearly and elegantly than corresponding instruction in the Bible. If I didn't believe in my own faith so much I think I would probably be a muslim

A feeling I share 

The sheer certainty of the instruction too is very interesting, and just how humbling the ideas espoused by the Sura's are is rather appealing. Though I always do find it interesting to pick up on the little kernels of intersection between some passages from the Qu'ran and older texts, which appeals to the historian in me. 

[Darkness Ascendant]

11 hours ago, EC11 said:

Not at all! From a theological perspective it is fascinating, and though it doesn't really have what one would call a traditional narrative, it is interesting to read once you understand how to read it properly. Seeing the evolution in complexity and style of the Sura's is interesting for me. Some of it is very poetic, but I am often told it loses much in the translation to English 

Ah, it is very nice in Arabic  I listen to this lecturer Ustadh Numain Ali Khan, you should check out his analysis of each Surah, It is absolutely amazing how each chapter connects with all the other chapters

10 hours ago, Left said:

I agree. Reading the Qu'ran was a lot of fun. The first half especially. It can be far more beautiful than say....the Old Testament. Even when I believe a doctrine different from what is given in the Qur'an I still find the instructions on day to day life, being respectful and peaceful to people or being sober or the need for humility before deity, to be really awesome. In my translation, I think a lot of that stuff is presented far more clearly and elegantly than corresponding instruction in the Bible. If I didn't believe in my own faith so much I think I would probably be a muslim

Ahhaaaa I'm very happy, alot of people have misconceptions on the qu'ran and islam... You guys are great.

7 hours ago, EC11 said:

A feeling I share 

The sheer certainty of the instruction too is very interesting, and just how humbling the ideas espoused by the Sura's are is rather appealing. Though I always do find it interesting to pick up on the little kernels of intersection between some passages from the Qu'ran and older texts, which appeals to the historian in me. 

AHA You all have made me very happy  You all should read up on Hadith as well methinks 

[+Slowswift]

I've always wanted to read the Qur'an. 

One day.  

[Erunion]

3 hours ago, Slowswift said:

I've always wanted to read the Qur'an. 

One day.  

Same. It's on my list, as is the book of Mormon and some others. I may not agree with your beliefs, but I certainly am willing to learn about them (and to have my own challenged, and then either strengthened or changed as needed). 

[Haelbarde]

The few times I've read some sections of the Qu'ran I've found it a bit vague and confusing as compared to what I'm used to with the bible.  Maybe it was just the bits I looked at.

Re: the Jews and Israel, my faith is firmly with the Israel was always expected to be restored to the land, and that God has a plan for the Jews,  although more related to Christ returning to set up a worldwide kingdom, with a temple on Zion as the capital.

[Vissy]

A religion thread without debates? Strange. Very strange. I was surprised to find how many mormons we have here as well.

As an atheist, my views on Israel are fairly balanced. While I don't think Israel has any special right to exist compared to other nations - or that Jews in particular should try to form up their own country - they're also a group of people who have been persecuted throughout history like no other group has been. If anyone has a precedent for setting up their own country, it's the Jews. So I'm neutral. It's happened already, and anyone can move to and live in Israel without fear of persecution - though sectarian violence will probably always be a danger. 

[Delightful]

3 minutes ago, Rob Lucci said:

A religion thread without debates? Strange. Very strange. I was surprised to find how many mormons we have here as well.

As an atheist, my views on Israel are fairly balanced. While I don't think Israel has any special right to exist compared to other nations - or that Jews in particular should try to form up their own country - they're also a group of people who have been persecuted throughout history like no other group has been. If anyone has a precedent for setting up their own country, it's the Jews. So I'm neutral. It's happened already, and anyone can move to and live in Israel without fear of persecution - though sectarian violence will probably always be a danger. 

(this is a comment not a criticism)

One of my absolute pet peeves regarding Israel is discussion of it's right to exist. "I support Israel's right to exist!". Well thank you, and I support America's and China's right to exist too. whoopee doo. It does exist and it's not up for discussion anymore. Specific actions and policies, sure, debate away. Right to exist?..........that's just dumb and at the very least bordering on anti-Semitic. 

[Darkness Ascendant]

I think therefore I am.

(Honestly only fault I can see here is that a rock can't think...but it exists. It works well with Islamic theology, so it works with that I guess, everything can think for itself and will give testimony on the day of judgement)

[Delightful]

5 minutes ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

I think therefore I am.

(Honestly only fault I can see here is that a rock can't think...but it exists. It works well with Islamic theology, so it works with that I guess, everything can think for itself and will give testimony on the day of judgement)

I am a stick!

(what isn't Cosmereism an option? )