Cross-Cosmere Duel: Kaladin/Vin/Hrathen vs. Raoden/Denth/Eshonai

[Varyn]

As the title states, which team do you think would win in a duel, given that all of the magic systems work simultaneously. 

 

Team 1:

Pre-Radiance Kaladin; unconsciously uses Stormlight as he did in Bridge Four, and has no shards.

Vin at her strongest (But not as Preservation); plenty of Allomantic stores.

Hrathen, ability as shown in Elantris. Enough said.

 

Team 2:

Raoden at his best, able to make use of AonDor.

Denth in Warbreaker, plain beast.

Eshonai in Warform and in full plate.

 

Place of Battle:

Elantris, Sel.

 

Who do you think will win? Feel free to justify below

Edited May 25, 2015 by Varyn

[A Joe in the Bush]

Vin at her strongest; plenty of Allomantic stores.

Team One would win, since Vin at her strongest was Preservation.

[Glamdring804]

Team One would win, since Vin at her strongest was Preservation.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Plus, since Raoden is nowhere near Elantris, he would be powerless.

[Varyn]

Team One would win, since Vin at her strongest was Preservation.

Yeah that's true, but I should have made it clearer that I meant Vin at her strongest without being Preservation. I'll edit it, but I still think Team 1 would win, hands down. They're all just awesome;)

[Varyn]

Exactly.

 

Plus, since Raoden is nowhere near Elantris, he would be powerless.

That was a given, another error, sorry. I added Raoden last and forgot to change the location to Elantris to actually make it suitable.

[Two McMillion]

I think team 2 has this. PreRadiance Kaladin and Hrathen are simply too weak, even when supported by Vin, to hold off Denth and Eshoni before Raoden could pull off some truly scary AonDor.

[A Joe in the Bush]

If Vin can get a Coin in Raoden's Forehead Fast enough, then Vin's team would win. But if Eshonai or Denth blocks her shot for long enough, then Raoden would easily destroy them.

[Glamdring804]

That's a more balanced fight. The MVPs are obviously Vin and Raoden. It would basically come down to which one of them is the most powerful.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Glamdring804

[the winter system]

I'd hate to vote against Vin because usually anything with her in it decides it for me, but... Well, it depends if Aons can target people burning metals or not. It might be invalidated by the fact she's invested, though metal is technically poorly inivested. Hm.

[Elithanathile]

I think team 2 would win. Elantrians have crazy healing powers, and can shoot minor death bolts. Along with Denth, who is an amazing swordsman, and Eshonai, who with her shardplate, is virtually unstoppable. Kaladin, as a proto-radiant, might be able to take out Eshonai, but if Denth is running interference for her, no way. Denth Vs. Kaladin? Denth wins. He has the experience and the physical strength and speed he needs. Raoden should be able to take some hits from vin without dying, his only problem is that he isn't very mobile. He would most likely stand still while shooting Aons, while Vin is jumping around, which gives her an edge. Hrathen just isn't a threat, and everyone would probably just ignore him, unless Eshonai took the time to just throw him off the plateau. Raoden and Eshonai have no metal on them, so Vin couldn;t push or pull them around. Denth does have his sword, so she might jump around using him, but I think Denth would figure out what was going on, and move around to avoid her being able to use him like that. And if she straight up tried to Push him off, he would either discard his sword and go for her without it while she is distracted, or, he would weigh more than her, and she would get pushed off instead. With her main source of jumping being pretty much useless to her, Vin would resort to dropping lots of coins to give her the acrobatic and aerial advantage. Once this was figured out though, Denth/Eshonai would begin attempting to knock the coins off the edge, forcing Vin to drop more, until eventually she has run out. The metal at the bottom of the Chasms would mean that knocking Vin off would be a useless gesture, as she would simply find a spear or another source of metal and come back up from a different angle, surprising them. And eventually, it would only take one of Raodens blasts to bring her down. And that's not considering Raoden teleporting, using fire, or any other Aons that he has in his arsenal.

 

I see the fight as going, (in a general sense) Raoden and Vin sparring, with Vin dropping coins to manuever. Kaladin heads straight for Eshonai, seeing her as the biggest threat. He begins to outmanuever her, when Denth comes in, and takes up all of Kaladins attention. Eshonai either helps Denth finish off Kaladin, While Raoden holds off Vin, and Hrathen tries to help Kaladin. After a heated battle, Kaladin's stormlight runs out, and he takes one blow to many, after which Eshonai and Denth dispatch Hrathen easily, and then try and help Raoden, but they are mostly short ranged, and end up mostly just blocking some of Vins shots, which Eshonai's shardplate can easily take. Then they begin to recognize they cannot really help Raoden, and proceed to try and limit Vins actions, by knocking off the coins and creating areas where she cannot land without being attacked by a shardblade, which she can't really defend against, or Denths sword, which would be very difficult to avoid. Eventually she would tire, begin to slow, and either Raoden would bring her down, or Denth and Eshonai would catch her off guard.

 

No matter how you put it, I just can't see team 1 winning with such a weak support group.

[A Joe in the Bush]

plenty of Allomantic stores.

Does this include Duralumin and Atium?

Edited May 26, 2015 by The Only Joe

[Voidus]

If it was inside Elantris I'd probably give the fight to Vin's team marginally, Vin's used to bounding across rooftops and maneuvering through a city, Raoden's more suited to an open field where he has clear line of sight the entire time. Since Vin has the speed and stealth advantage I'd give her the win, though it'd definitely be close.

[natc]

I'll have to bring up the potential disparity between local gravity and what they are used to, and how it may affect people in combat. Vin's jumping takes the biggest hit.

[Turos]

In an extended battle, Raoden, Denth and Hrathen can continue at full investiture, as long as Denth recalls his Breaths after use, or employs the same awakened objects continuously(if he even has Breath to spare). Team 2 has two of these individuals.

[Varyn]

In an extended battle, Raoden, Denth and Hrathen can continue at full investiture, as long as Denth recalls his Breaths after use, or employs the same awakened objects continuously(if he even has Breath to spare). Team 2 has two of these individuals.

Fair point, actually. I'd never considered the extended battle being there and then determined by the length of being able to use investiture.

[Varyn]

I'll have to bring up the potential disparity between local gravity and what they are used to, and how it may affect people in combat. Vin's jumping takes the biggest hit.

That's actually a really awesome connection. I'd never considered that Brandon would have the worlds have different gravity, but then I guess that in SA, there are the three moons on Roshar: Salas, Nomon, and Mishim, thus being different to any others straight away, so I guess it's not too far of a jump to then assume there are differences in gravity. Do we have any WoB on this? - It'd be quite cool to see how this affected each of the characters.

[Varyn]

If it was inside Elantris I'd probably give the fight to Vin's team marginally, Vin's used to bounding across rooftops and maneuvering through a city, Raoden's more suited to an open field where he has clear line of sight the entire time. Since Vin has the speed and stealth advantage I'd give her the win, though it'd definitely be close.

Huh, that's interesting, and I'd have to agree with you; I also feel that Eshonai would have trouble in the confined areas if the others used it well.

[Varyn]

Does this include Duralumin and Atium?

Yeah, I would say, that if it is possible to take the Atium over to Sel, then she would have maybe a minute or so of Atium, and plenty of Duralumin.

[Edgedancer]

That's actually a really awesome connection. I'd never considered that Brandon would have the worlds have different gravity, but then I guess that in SA, there are the three moons on Roshar: Salas, Nomon, and Mishim, thus being different to any others straight away, so I guess it's not too far of a jump to then assume there are differences in gravity. Do we have any WoB on this? - It'd be quite cool to see how this affected each of the characters.

Roshar's gravity is lower than that of earth, 0.7 I think, it's one of the reasons Chasmfiends can grow to the size they do.

 

Anyway, one thing to consider is that inside of Elantris Raoden could counteract his lack of mobility by using the teleporters all over the city just waiting to be used by an Elantria.

[Varyn]

I think team 2 would win. Elantrians have crazy healing powers, and can shoot minor death bolts. Along with Denth, who is an amazing swordsman, and Eshonai, who with her shardplate, is virtually unstoppable. Kaladin, as a proto-radiant, might be able to take out Eshonai, but if Denth is running interference for her, no way. Denth Vs. Kaladin? Denth wins. He has the experience and the physical strength and speed he needs. Raoden should be able to take some hits from vin without dying, his only problem is that he isn't very mobile. He would most likely stand still while shooting Aons, while Vin is jumping around, which gives her an edge. Hrathen just isn't a threat, and everyone would probably just ignore him, unless Eshonai took the time to just throw him off the plateau. Raoden and Eshonai have no metal on them, so Vin couldn;t push or pull them around. Denth does have his sword, so she might jump around using him, but I think Denth would figure out what was going on, and move around to avoid her being able to use him like that. And if she straight up tried to Push him off, he would either discard his sword and go for her without it while she is distracted, or, he would weigh more than her, and she would get pushed off instead. With her main source of jumping being pretty much useless to her, Vin would resort to dropping lots of coins to give her the acrobatic and aerial advantage. Once this was figured out though, Denth/Eshonai would begin attempting to knock the coins off the edge, forcing Vin to drop more, until eventually she has run out. The metal at the bottom of the Chasms would mean that knocking Vin off would be a useless gesture, as she would simply find a spear or another source of metal and come back up from a different angle, surprising them. And eventually, it would only take one of Raodens blasts to bring her down. And that's not considering Raoden teleporting, using fire, or any other Aons that he has in his arsenal.

 

I see the fight as going, (in a general sense) Raoden and Vin sparring, with Vin dropping coins to manuever. Kaladin heads straight for Eshonai, seeing her as the biggest threat. He begins to outmanuever her, when Denth comes in, and takes up all of Kaladins attention. Eshonai either helps Denth finish off Kaladin, While Raoden holds off Vin, and Hrathen tries to help Kaladin. After a heated battle, Kaladin's stormlight runs out, and he takes one blow to many, after which Eshonai and Denth dispatch Hrathen easily, and then try and help Raoden, but they are mostly short ranged, and end up mostly just blocking some of Vins shots, which Eshonai's shardplate can easily take. Then they begin to recognize they cannot really help Raoden, and proceed to try and limit Vins actions, by knocking off the coins and creating areas where she cannot land without being attacked by a shardblade, which she can't really defend against, or Denths sword, which would be very difficult to avoid. Eventually she would tire, begin to slow, and either Raoden would bring her down, or Denth and Eshonai would catch her off guard.

 

No matter how you put it, I just can't see team 1 winning with such a weak support group.

Originally, I would have said team one over and over again, just because I loved Vin and Kaladin, and both seemed very powerful, but comparatively, perhaps not so much; Kaladin would indeed have no impact against Raoden so would have to essentially rely on skill with a spear, which as you showed, would probably lead to Denth and Eshonai overwhelming him and Hrathen, unless those two isolated either Denth or Eshonai first and took them down.

Vin, on the other hand, I think could, perhaps, take Raoden in the streets of Elantris. She has the ability to jump over the rooftops and move quickly away from some of the Aons, and I think the main thing is that, if it's possible to bring Atium over to Sel, then she would have Atium to see where Raoden, Denth and Eshonai would move next, meaning she'd have a huge advantage. Assuming that she could use the Atium to perhaps take down Denth and Eshonai before Kaladin and Hrathen were slaughtered, then the three of them could probably take on Raoden, tiring him out or attacking in the time before Aons had been drawn to the end.

Depending on the circumstances, and depending EXTREMELY on the question of Atium or not, both teams could win.

[Varyn]

The poll's actually quite close at the moment: 7/8

Edited May 26, 2015 by Varyn

[Voidus]

Kal and Hrathen could probably hold off Denth or Eshonai in Plate but probably not both, so Vin would have to kill Denth immediately with a well placed coin then lead Raoden away so she can pepper him with metal while Kal and Hrathen deal with Eshonai.

[Varyn]

Kal and Hrathen could probably hold off Denth or Eshonai in Plate but probably not both, so Vin would have to kill Denth immediately with a well placed coin then lead Raoden away so she can pepper him with metal while Kal and Hrathen deal with Eshonai.

If Vin did actually take down Denth like you said, I could actually see Team 1 winning, as you've said; we've seen Kaladin in WoK take down a full Shardbearer - Shallan's brother Helaran - and the Shardbearers in the dueling ring with Adolin, so I could see him and Hrathen taking down Eshonai. Then, if all 3 survived,  I think Raoden would go down quite easily. Do you reckon that Raoden could hold them off?

[A Joe in the Bush]

Really, this whole fight depends on how fast Vin can take out any one person with a coin. Though I still think Raoden should be her first target.

[Varyn]

Really, this whole fight depends on how fast Vin can take out any one person with a coin. Though I still think Raoden should be her first target.

Yeah, if I was Vin, I would go for Raoden straight away, but it's then again a matter of, first, whether Raoden can use any Aons that will repel the metal, and secondly, will Denth and Eshonai overcome Kaladin and Hrathen in the time she is fighting Raoden. If I was Team 2, I would divert Vin onto Raoden and then take out the other two.