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Deaths, Character Arcs, Couples, etc.


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So I notice that while we have all these awesome theories, but we don't really try to guess stuff like how characters will develop, who will die, and who will hook up with each other. So of course, I decided to start a thread about that stuff.

I think Adolin will get together with a dark-eyed girl. He continually switches girlfriends, so he may be finding the female lighteyes unfulfilling. It's said that inter-marriage can happen, and it would shock the other Alethi. I just think it adheres to the themes.

I don't think Szeth is going to die. Even though he acts like he wants to die, deep down he wants to live.

The Way of Kings, Interlude 6, Page 445 (Hardcover edition):

Though [szeth's] murders and sins would damnation him, at least his soul would be given to the stones upon his death. He would continue to exist. Punished, in agony, but not exiled to nothingness.

Better to exist in agony than to vanish entirely.

Szeth's desire to still exist after death shows that he doesn't want to vanish. (Also, stone is apparently some sort of Shin hell, but that's a topic for another thread.) Also, his "now I can blame you for their deaths" speech to that king guy means that he could be convinced to keep living if he was given the task to overthrow the Shin government and establish something truly peaceful. (Because the concept of setting a slave dude with a giant sword loose on Roshar shows that they're kind of corrupt. Also, something sinister, like cannibalism has to be going on in those farms. And Szeth also wonders why people are disturbed by someone who looks like a child wandering around a hellhole. That could have interesting implications. But I'm getting off-topic.) Also, I ship Szeth/Jasnah, and that simply can't happen if Szeth bites it.

And a major part of SA2 will obviously be the love triangle of Kaladin/Kaladin's Spear/Shallan. Who will Kaladin's spear choose: Kaladin or Shallan?

Discuss this topic. And please, no shipping wars.

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Hmm? I think a Shallan/Adolin/Renarin love triangle is more likely than anything at all involving Kaladin and Shallan. I honestly don't want to see any major romantic things involving Kaladin for a few books, and those will probably involve women from his past. Szeth/Jasnah seems like it could be interesting as well. I don't think the Shin are nearly as sinister as you do, I'm not sure they even have many interesting secrets besides the ones concerning Szeth.

As far as deaths go, I have no good guesses. Actually, Amaram sacrificing himself somehow sounds fun.

Edited by Cheese Ninja
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Kaladin/Jasnah has some possibilities. She I think would find a man who is as honourable as her father/uncle yet also intelligent and one who respects learning will be difficult to resist.

Not really sure about Adolin and Shallan, we here too few deep thoughts from him in tWoK for me to get a good sense of his character.

Im more curious to see whom will be Odium's Champion. Shallan and Szeth both have very negative connotations towards them even though both have reasons. Whereas Dalinar/Kaladin have both been portrayed as very good honourable characters. So which one of the four will go Darth Vader on us? I think Szeth is too obvious personally, though the fact that he can be used for corrupt means by whomever holds his stone makes him the most likely, but it doesnt quite sit right. Shallan has some potential but I really cant see Kaladin being Odiums Champion.. But that may mean he will be because it would be the most unexpected and possibly the most devastating to Roshar.

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And a major part of SA2 will obviously be the love triangle of Kaladin/Kaladin's Spear/Shallan. Who will Kaladin's spear choose: Kaladin or Shallan?

Discuss this topic. And please, no shipping wars.

Shallan, obviously. Anything else would just be silly.

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And what exactly do you mean by "Kaladin's Spear"? Actually, I'm not sure I want to know.

In terms of age and availability, Szeth/Jasnah and Kaladin/Shallan seem obvious, probably too obvious. I see a significant chance that either Szeth or Jasnah is not interested in the opposite gender. Both Kaladin and Shallan tend to make wisecracks, so their interactions could be fun to read.

Given the already antagonistic relationship between Kaladin and Adolin and their inevitable rivalry for Dalinar's attention, any triangle involving them will be juicy.

With two five-book arcs to the series, presumably the first five books end with team Radiant surviving (barely) the Desolation and the next five have them improving things somehow (restoring a Shard or two?). I think we can expect some major characters to explore their arcs and die toward the end of Book 5. I think we lose Kaladin or Dalinar in book 5.

Elhokar seems so flawed that I don't think he'll last long.

Edited by hoser
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Jasnah is too old for Kaladin. The age difference would just be too major.

Adolin seems pretty infatuated with the current girl. It would be extremely scandalous for him to marry a darkeyed girl.

Kaladin and Shallan seems to be the best fit. That would turn full circle for him marrying a lower-level lighteyes.

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Jasnah is too old for Kaladin. The age difference would just be too major.

Adolin seems pretty infatuated with the current girl. It would be extremely scandalous for him to marry a darkeyed girl.

Kaladin and Shallan seems to be the best fit. That would turn full circle for him marrying a lower-level lighteyes.

You might be right about the age gap, but Jasnah has been known to go against custom more than a few times. Trying to remember if there are any real details about her age, I think she has to be on the region of 8-12 years older than Kaladin, but whether her physical body is that age is the question. Im curious to see whether stormlight effects the longevity of the human using it, it heals wounds and such we already know that, but what we dont know is whether if increases your actual lifespan and Jasnah has been using it to an extent for a while.

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I just don't see Jasnah/Kaladin happening. She is too old, and she is from an extremely high-ranking family. I pictured her being around 35, so you are looking at a decade and a half age difference. Throw in the fact that she would be marrying way below her social level.

Yes, Kaladin almost married a lower lighteyes, but the key word is Lower. You don't get much higher than Jasnah and her family.

I think people are starting to read too much into her comments about the robbers and her decision to remain unmarried. She realizes that if she were to marry, it would severly curtail her ability to research and independence. Doesn't she even explicitly state that in the book? We already have multiple examples of women in Brandon's cosmere that just don't fit into the normal 16 and pregnant mold that some fantasy writers use. Vin, Vivenna, Sarene, and Siri to different extents chose to stay away from entanglements until the time was right. Viv still hasn't settled down, and Sarene was considered an old maid for not being married many years before.

Why should she have taken pity on the men she killed? Almost all fantasy realms have a darker underside, and she was probably aware exactly what type of men they were.

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I just don't see Jasnah/Kaladin happening. She is too old, and she is from an extremely high-ranking family. I pictured her being around 35, so you are looking at a decade and a half age difference. Throw in the fact that she would be marrying way below her social level.

Yes, Kaladin almost married a lower lighteyes, but the key word is Lower. You don't get much higher than Jasnah and her family.

Perhaps, but it depends how much older than Dalinar that Galivar was. Dalinar is what 50 in the WoK? Navani is most likely a bit younger than Dalinar. And from what we've seen it isnt that unusual for them to be large age gaps, but they do seem to have rules about how old someone must be before they marry. But even so if she is younger than Dalinar then for Yasnah to be 35 she would have been 15 or younger which is possible but unlikely. 30 sounds more reasonable but even that all depends on just when Galivar decided to conquer the Princedoms.

As for eyes, if he becomes a KR in truth I think its a given that his eyes will be lighter than 99% of so called lighteyes and wont have any baring on it at all. Especially when it becomes obvious that the social construct behind it was that the "Honorable" should lead, not a bunch of self serving, and loathsome bunch of cretins that most Lighteyes seem to be.

Either way still dont see Shallan and Kaladin being a match but not like any of us know 100% that we're right

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I think a big question will be who ends up as Honor's champion. The leading candidates (from what we've seen) seem to be Dalinar and Kaladin. Jasnah and Adolin seem less likely. Kaladin was more of a leader at the Tower and is of the leadership order, but he is young and has some issues to work through. Dalinar is a Highprince and seems to be an effective leader also.

If Kaladin eventually became the leader of the reformed radiants, I think his status would be elevated to the point that his birth status would not matter. A logical way to reconcile his authority with Alethi society would be for him to marry Princess Jasnah, particularly if something happened to Elhokar.

That said, I don't see either Kaladin or Jasnah having a nominal marriage. Their differing ages (Jasnah is described as being 34 on p75 when Shallan is about to meet her, whereas Kaladin is 19 when he gets to the Shattered plains) seems like it might interfere with their getting together more from the point of view of them being at different stages of life and having different goals. Still, if that's what Brandon wanted to do, I'm sure he could make it work.

Edited by hoser
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For Jasnah's age:

How else could one picture a heretic well into her mid-thirties and still unmarried?

Somewhere else, it's stated that she is 34. I can't remember where, because I thought it was when Shallan first met Jasnah, but that's the quote above. But I do know that somewhere, it's stated that Jasnah is 34.

Navani is a few months older than Dalinar. Again, I can't remember where that is said in the book either, but I know that's right.

We also know Dalinar is in his 50's. I would guess he's about 52. His age may have been said specifically, but since I don't remember it, I'm going with not (I just re-read the book last month, and am reading it again with someone else). That puts Jasnah at having been borne when Navani was 18-19. Most likely. Dalinar met his wife quite a few years later, and pursued her for a while before finally catching her. We know this because I'm pretty sure it's kind of referenced a little in the book, but then also because Adolin is 23. 11 years younger than Jasnah, and 4 years younger than Elhokar, who is 27.

And now back to more on-topic.

As for a Jasnah/Kaladin relationship...Since Kaladin is 19/20, I highly doubt there will be any sort of anything there. Besides a mutual appreciation for learning. Maybe they'll become friends or something. But no romance.

I can see the potential for a Shallan/Kaladin relationship, based on personality and proximity in age, but the differences in honor have me thinking that's not likely to happen. Shallan is going to have a relationship at some point. I could see Shallan/Adolin happening to an extent. Assuming Adolin drops Danlan (and on that note, I think that if he doesn't, he could die. I have an instinctively bad feeling about Danlan, and have a horrible suspicion she will be the death of him. Which sucks, because I really like Adolin, so I hope he drops her and therefore stays alive...assuming he survives all the other stuff in the series). Or maybe Shallan/Renarin. Or like Cheese Ninja said, an Adolin/Shallan/Renarin love triangle. Or maybe we haven't met Shallan's love interest.

And that's all I have to say about the couples. Character arcs....

Shallan's character arc is probably the most interesting to me right now to theorize, because out of the viewpoint characters thus far, she's the most ambiguous. She's clearly got Surgebinding abilities, but at the same time she's very clearly not getting those abilities through any honorable act, like Kaladin or Dalinar (because I'm reasonably certain Dalinar's going to be from another Order of the Knights Radiant). So she's in the group with Szeth who's getting their abilities from something else. Odium, or the Voidbringers, or whatever other theory people have for where. I'm convinced we'll see at least one person from every Order of the KR, and we'll also see someone from each of the 10 Orders of the other two systems--most particularly that of Shallan and Szeth's. The reason her arc interests me, though, is because I'm curious how far she'll fall. Especially with Jasnah there. Jasnah's one of the other KR potentials. And Shallan's about to become surrounded by other incredibly honorable people the second she gets to the SP with Jasnah. And yet, I can totally see her being Odium's Champion, as Cayden brought up earlier. I'm just curious as to how.

At some point, Kaladin will return to Hearthstone, and we'll find out what happened to his parents, Roshone, and Laral. And I'm hoping he'll be able to take his revenge on Roshone, and in that vengeance, he'll show his KR abilities, and make Laral wish that she hadn't been such a jerk to him with Rillir. I'm hoping she'll faun over him, and then he'll push her aside and be like "Pft. You think I'm still interested in you? Ha. Move aside, woman. You mean nothing to me." I also wouldn't be surprised if Kaladin did end up marrying a lighteyed girl. Perhaps high-born too. I mean, he's gonna be a KR. Who will care then what color his eyes are/were.

Szeth. He's a hard one for me to guess at. I want him to join Dalinar and Kaladin. But I don't know how that would go down, since Taravangian has his oathstone, and I don't get the impression Szeth can just forego being Truthless. I'm pretty sure there will be a big showdown between Szeth and Kaladin when Szeth goes to kill Dalinar. And I don't see Kaladin killing Szeth, but Szeth's not just going to walk away without doing what his master with the oathstone has commanded of him. That means imprisonment, but how do you imprison someone who has a Blade? Take it away from him? How? Many questions here. Very curious what will happen.

And now. Deaths. Elhokar. Sadeas. Amaram. Those are the easiest for me to call. I don't think Elhokar will die soon. He'll probably make it to Book 4 or 5. His KR abilities need to come out. Amaram is going to die before Sadeas, and Kaladin will probably kill both of them, but if he doesn't, I hope that he'll get at least one of them. I could see Teft dying at some point, but not before we learn more about the Envisagers and his betrayal of them. Or maybe he won't die at all. He's a hard one to call for certain since Brandon has a 66/33 rate of saving the older mentor-types to his main characters (Galladon and Vasher survived. Kelsier died). If Teft doesn't die, it's safe to say another member of Bridge Four close to Kaladin will die. Rock, Moash, Skar, Lopen. Although I think the first two are more likely than the last two.

And that's all my musings about this...for now.

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She's clearly got Surgebinding abilities, but at the same time she's very clearly not getting those abilities through any honorable act, like Kaladin or Dalinar (because I'm reasonably certain Dalinar's going to be from another Order of the Knights Radiant).

Actually I believe that she does not fall into one category with Szeth at all: She has some kind of Spren following her around and we have that tidbit form Nohadon about not all kinds of spren being as discerning as honorspren, so one does not have to be all honorable to establish a nahel bond, which I believe is the only thing necessary for surgebinding.

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Actually I believe that she does not fall into one category with Szeth at all: She has some kind of Spren following her around and we have that tidbit form Nohadon about not all kinds of spren being as discerning as honorspren, so one does not have to be all honorable to establish a nahel bond, which I believe is the only thing necessary for surgebinding.

You don't have to be a good person to attract honorspren. Would be interesting to see somebody unlike Syl.

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Interesting thing to note:

Her father was the one who put her into the devotion of purity. I always wondered if that had anything to do with her/their soulcasting abilities.

Dalinar will die. He's far too honorable and perfect to be allowed to last. His character arc is nearing or possibly even past its peak, and the only place to go now is death. Szeth isn't going to back off his orders, and the odds of him being beaten by Kaladin are slim. Chances are he kills Dalinar and leaves everything in chaos.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am pretty certain that Delinar is quite save for now, sanderson has stated in several interviews that the character of delinar has been with hin for many many years and he is very fond of it.

As to others I simply hope that Syl gets more time to be a little devious and sarcastic^^ and if kaladin actually finds a beloved syl should give her hell this would be soooo much fun.

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*Spoilers*

^Brandon has an alarming tendency to kill who he loves, in case you haven't noticed. Vin? Gone. Kelsier? More gone. Lightsong? Heroic sacrifice. Sazed? Personality ripped apart by competing Shards.

Brandon has also stated that just because a character is the focus of flashbacks during a book doesn't guarantee that they're alive in it.

Edited by Kurkistan
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I am pretty certain that Delinar is quite save for now, sanderson has stated in several interviews that the character of delinar has been with hin for many many years and he is very fond of it.

As to others I simply hope that Syl gets more time to be a little devious and sarcastic^^ and if kaladin actually finds a beloved syl should give her hell this would be soooo much fun.

In addition, the way he talks about writing his characters, he says that he lets them take risks. If those legitimate risks don't some times end up killing a character, that undermines the value of the risk they take. It seems like he stops short of George R.R. Martin (who will kill your favorite character just to be cruel . . . I'm not bitter) and gives the sense of realism of you never know what will happen.

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Still I don't think that he is gonna do this for several reasons:

1. sounds too much like ice and fire

2. in an interview he said that the cast of mains is maybe getting extended by 1 so that would leave max 3 viewpoint chars. (dont't think thats what he has in mind)

3. You can't compare mistborn (plotting wise) to his other works, look at Elantris eg.

4. It would close a whole lot of doors (sanderson beeing an arcitectural writer and so forth, I think that if Dalinars death is happening we won't see it coming, by this logic Seth couldn't kill him)

I mean honestly wouldn't you all be disappointed him Sanderson's plotting was that predictable

Brandon has an alarming tendency to kill who he loves, in case you haven't noticed. Vin? Gone. Kelsier? More gone. Lightsong? Heroic sacrifice. Sazed? Personality ripped apart by competing Shards

Yes he has a tendecy to kill off chars., but always after they have done what they needed to. Dissagree on Sazed though- since he more or less absorbed the shards and became God - wouldn't call that death.

I#m not opposed to dalinars death mind you, but I don't think it's time yet

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At some point, Kaladin will return to Hearthstone, and we'll find out what happened to his parents, Roshone, and Laral. And I'm hoping he'll be able to take his revenge on Roshone, and in that vengeance, he'll show his KR abilities, and make Laral wish that she hadn't been such a jerk to him with Rillir. I'm hoping she'll faun over him, and then he'll push her aside and be like "Pft. You think I'm still interested in you? Ha. Move aside, woman. You mean nothing to me."

I doubt that will happen because if Kaladin did that it would be a dick move. A really big one.

Not only did Laral not owe him anything, but she had no agency whatsoever in how things went down in Hearthstone. That was a bad end for Laral that she did nothing to earn. I'd say what you describe would be "slut-shaming" but then Laral was more-or-less not-on-page almost assuredly raped. So double the dickishness to Kaladin if he does that.

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Shallan must get into a triangle with the brothers, if only to mirror the previous generation (with delicious running commentary from Dalinar and Navani). Symmetry begs for it (which is a pretty strong theme so far in SA). Doesn't matter what happens ultimately but triangle must form.

I really want Sadeas to never die. His presence on the chopping block of redemption is glaringly obvious and I'd like that averted. So long as he survives I'm down for anything, up to and including him inheriting Honor (if Sanderson somehow managed that there'd be no minds left unblown). Amaram, however, will not survive. He's likely to become a loyal follower and sacrifice himself for Kaladin or something for bonus irony.

Elhokar is such a douche. He's infinitely worse than Elend started as, so he has a lot of room for cool stuff. Or a quick and ignoble death. I'd be fine with either but the fact that he sees symbolheads makes me think he'll stick around.

Everyone talking about age seem to have forgotten Allrianne. If Sanderson let some teen whippersnapper get away with seducing a forty something guy, why would he shy away from pairing up Kaladin and Jasnah? Not that he's obligated to have pairs with age differences, but there's no reason to assume it can't happen. Besides Shallan must get on with that triangle and Kaladin doesn't look like he'd have any positive opinion of her if he got to know her.

I'm half imagining a scene where Kaladin returns triumphant to Hearthstone to learn that his father went off the deep end and killed Roshone. It'd be a pretty dramatic scene it's very unlikely.

I'm also envisioning Shallan inexplicably becoming more and more powerful. She already has a Blade and can Soulcast so if she were to start training, I could easily see her defeat some random Shardbearer and take his armor. Then she somehow acquires Szeth's oathstone and gains the most powerful and dangerous servant on Roshar. Afterwards she learns voidbinding from some new type of spren, finds a certain item Hoid forgot to take and gains strange powers never seen on Roshar from it, invents a way to reanimate chasmfiend corpses with Stormlight infusion, is bitten by a radioactive spider, glues together splinters of Honor and inherits the reforged Shard, and then beats up Odium. It's a mildy amusing sequence but alas it's just not meant to be.

Taravangian interests me most. That's a guy who has problems. He reminds me of Hrathen and Kelsier minus massive badassery or charisma: the monster with noble goal. I guess he won't survive to the end but when he'll go down and how much he'll screw over the world in his misguided efforts remains to be seen. Or I'll be caught offguard and he'll end up saving the world. Both options are cool.

I also want more wacky hijinks of spren collector. He doesn't have to have anything to do with main story but I'd love to see him in a more bizarre and improbable situation each book looking for a more bizarre and elusive type of spren in a new exotic location. That guy is the best.

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I like most of Chicken's points.

About Axies (the spren collector), Brandon has a video of the prewriting session for one of the Interludes in the next book. There's not much to look at, but it seems to be about Rysn (Thaylen trader girl from another Interlude) running into Axies in the Reshi Isles (Coincidentally? where the old female Spren researcher Geranid lives) and getting advice on how to impress the Reshi. Something to do with jumping.

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  • 2 months later...

Brandon has also stated that just because a character is the focus of flashbacks during a book doesn't guarantee that they're alive in it.

 

Actually, Brandon has stated this SO MANY TIMES, over and over again, that I really feel like he's trying to warn people that it will happen. He tends to use "Just because Dalinar's book is book 5 doesn't mean that he'll live until then." I honestly believe Dalinar will be gone by then. Who knows, maybe not, especially because we already know how that would affect Navani...

 

While I was looking something up for another discussion, I found that Shallan specifically states she was being groomed to marry high nobility. That might be a hint for Adolin or Renarin, or it could be a foreshadowing of Kaladin becoming a lighteyes.

I've always personally thought that Adolin/Shallan would be a thing. Maybe not permanently, but for a long relationship. Especially because  Dalinar thinks that Adolin will need a strong woman to settle down with/kick his butt in gear.

 

I also want more wacky hijinks of spren collector. He doesn't have to have anything to do with main story but I'd love to see him in a more bizarre and improbable situation each book looking for a more bizarre and elusive type of spren in a new exotic location. That guy is the best.

 

Like Cheese Ninja said, Axies does come up, and Sanderson seemed to imply in the video that we'll see more of him in Book 3 (but not in WoR). I think he's going to be rather big, despite being a side-story. Particularly since Brandon has mentioned that spren are a key part to figuring out how his Cosmere theories operate (at least, that's how I read the quote: "If you understand the spren you will understand a lot about the connection between the books.") Anyway, I definitely agree that I love him :)

Edited for a minor spelling error

Edited by darkanimereal1
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