Jan 21 - Syme - Sweet Nectar of Memory Part 1

[Syme]

This is the topic for my novelette Sweet Nectar of Memory.

[cnr87]

I'm really interested to see where this is headed. I was impressed by how you were able to worldbuild so effectively using mostly dialogue and brief descriptions. It keeps things flowing nicely and is a great example of 'showing' rather than 'telling.'

From your phrasing, I got the impression that this is a world in which women have a hard time gaining power. It is understandable for the wizard to be a woman as I'm assuming those talents are genetic rather than a learned skill. I do wonder how a woman like Sence (despite being incredibly clever) could have risen in esteem so highly before being a much older woman. Perhaps you could add something that helps show why she is esteemed so highly by the king and by others while being a 30-40ish year old woman.

Another scene that gave me pause was the discussion between Vasco and Sence where she tries to convince him to take the risk. She is obviously very passionate about the subject, yet she behaves much more logically than most people I have met would be capable of. The situation is dire, so a little illogical behavior seems more likely to me.

I really really really loved the idea of being able to transfer memories and the discussion that went with it. It actually made me sit here for five minutes trying to decide who was right. That is a very good sign.

I really look forward to seeing the rest of your novelette!

[Mandamon]

I liked the overall principle of your story with memory transfer and an alien race. I also liked the setting. There were two very long philosophical/mathematical conversations here that I think need to be cut down a bit. this is still the first chapter and you're already investigating problems that have plagued human society for thousands of years, re: the price of a life and mind vs. soul. even one of these will be a little heady for a first chapter, but having both set the tone as more of a philosophical book rather than a fantasy. If you are planning to have a very philosophical book, fine (and I'd warn your readers about it upfront), but otherwise I'd move those conversations a bit later. You say this is a novellete, so the story is shorter and you need to get to the point faster, but I still think it's too early.

Don't know why, but the first sentence almost made me set the story down immediately. I think because it was such a generic fantasy image. The story is fine afterward.

I want to read more, although I'd be wary if there are more long and involved philosophical discussions. If you want to approach the subject, I'd do it in smaller chunks or with subtler situations.

[Asmodemon]

What I liked most about part one is the setting, specifically the poquat. They are very alien compared to the usual fantasy races and their stance on memories is an interesting one. The story started good, I liked the first line, it sets a good scene, as well as the conflict on what to do with the portal: both options have danger and there is no clear solution. The rest of the story so far doesn’t really hook me though.

Sence: Part of the problem with me losing interest is Sence’s perspective in the first four pages. She doesn’t really do anything – the other characters act and, with the exception of a few comments, she doesn’t have much of a presence here. It gets better when she tries to reach a decision on the portal and subsequently convincing the king. These scenes show she’s intelligent and capable, though she knows her decision could have grave consequences she’s not afraid to take the risk, as doing nothing is also destructive.

Philosophy: The second part of what made this harder to read than it should be is the philosophy. I don’t mind characters waxing philosophically, but it’s too soon. The pacing really drops to zero when she talks about identity with Quoras and without being hooked to the story that’s a sure way to lose your audience. It didn’t help, for me, that I didn’t really buy into Sence’s side of the argument.

Riot: This bothered me a little, why is the wizard outside the palace during a riot? The chances of Sence and Alina meeting just when Sence is being knocked to the ground are astronomical. Serendipity and all that, but it’s too convenient to feel real. Maybe it wouldn’t bother me so much save for the fact that the wizard shouldn’t have been out there, and neither should Sence, come to think of it. Also, the fact that they are able to have a quiet conversation in that place runs counter to what you stated before, that there is a real chance of being trampled to death.

Naïve King: For a merchant king of a merchant city-state I thought Vasco was terribly naïve in his arguments with Sence. He sounds like a youth who doesn’t understand the way the world works yet and is in for a rough awakening. He doesn’t sound like a king at all. The argument between him and Sence didn’t resonate with me because of that.

Nitpick: There is a perspective error on page 12. “I told Quaros. She didn’t agree with him, but she couldn’t come up with…” Should be something like “I didn’t agree with him.”

First sentence: I’ll agree with Mandamon that the first sentence reads a little like a generic fantasy opening, but I still liked it. That’s due to the second sentence “That much was to be expected”. It sets the cliché on its head, since even your characters know it’s a cliché.

Conclusion: Overall you’ve got some interesting things here, with the poquat and their memories and the dilemma between reopening the portal and keeping it closed. The philosophy drags the pacing down though and that makes it hard to read, which is something of which you should be aware.

[Syme]

Thanks everyone for your critiques.

Just for clarification, Vasco is not a king. His title is marquis and he's the ruler of the city of Rabira, which is part of a larger kingdom-

I'm really interested to see where this is headed. I was impressed by how you were able to worldbuild so effectively using mostly dialogue and brief descriptions. It keeps things flowing nicely and is a great example of 'showing' rather than 'telling.'

Thanks, glad you liked it.

From your phrasing, I got the impression that this is a world in which women have a hard time gaining power. It is understandable for the wizard to be a woman as I'm assuming those talents are genetic rather than a learned skill. I do wonder how a woman like Sence (despite being incredibly clever) could have risen in esteem so highly before being a much older woman. Perhaps you could add something that helps show why she is esteemed so highly by the king and by others while being a 30-40ish year old woman.

It's really a combination of factors. First of all, she's an only child and inherited the business from her father. Her father was already a quite successful merchant, but Sence manged to expand his business and become even more profitable. Then there's the fact that Sence is intelligent, rational and well educated. She's basically been trained for this responsibility since she was a little girl. And lastly, there's the fact that many of her buisiness partners are poquats, who don't care about her sex. For them, the only real difference between the sexes is in reproduction and most of the wealthy poquats who Sence does business with have memories of being both sexes anyway.

Another scene that gave me pause was the discussion between Vasco and Sence where she tries to convince him to take the risk. She is obviously very passionate about the subject, yet she behaves much more logically than most people I have met would be capable of. The situation is dire, so a little illogical behavior seems more likely to me.

Sence is a very rational person. I don't think this is out of character for her.

I really really really loved the idea of being able to transfer memories and the discussion that went with it. It actually made me sit here for five minutes trying to decide who was right. That is a very good sign.

I had a big grin on my face when I read this for the first time This was exactly the reaction I was hoping for.

I liked the overall principle of your story with memory transfer and an alien race. I also liked the setting. There were two very long philosophical/mathematical conversations here that I think need to be cut down a bit. this is still the first chapter and you're already investigating problems that have plagued human society for thousands of years, re: the price of a life and mind vs. soul. even one of these will be a little heady for a first chapter, but having both set the tone as more of a philosophical book rather than a fantasy. If you are planning to have a very philosophical book, fine (and I'd warn your readers about it upfront), but otherwise I'd move those conversations a bit later. You say this is a novellete, so the story is shorter and you need to get to the point faster, but I still think it's too early.

Don't know why, but the first sentence almost made me set the story down immediately. I think because it was such a generic fantasy image. The story is fine afterward.

I want to read more, although I'd be wary if there are more long and involved philosophical discussions. If you want to approach the subject, I'd do it in smaller chunks or with subtler situations.

Thanks for the comments. Yes, you're right, I need to cut down on the two philosophical discussions. Any ideas on what parts specifically seemed extraneous to you?

And don't worry, the second half will be more fast paced and have considerably less philosophy.

Sence: Part of the problem with me losing interest is Sence’s perspective in the first four pages. She doesn’t really do anything – the other characters act and, with the exception of a few comments, she doesn’t have much of a presence here. It gets better when she tries to reach a decision on the portal and subsequently convincing the king. These scenes show she’s intelligent and capable, though she knows her decision could have grave consequences she’s not afraid to take the risk, as doing nothing is also destructive.

I don't really buy into the idea that main characters need to be active all the time. In this story, Sence is presented with a problem she doesn't understand, so being a rational and smart person, she first gathers information and considers the problem until she comes to a decision. Only then does she act decisively. Too often in fiction the heroes just stumble headlong into adventure without proper consideration or preparation that any reasonable person would do.

Philosophy: The second part of what made this harder to read than it should be is the philosophy. I don’t mind characters waxing philosophically, but it’s too soon. The pacing really drops to zero when she talks about identity with Quoras and without being hooked to the story that’s a sure way to lose your audience. It didn’t help, for me, that I didn’t really buy into Sence’s side of the argument.

Yeah, I especially need to cut down that conversation. When you say you didn't buy into Sences arguments, does that mean you merely disagree with her or do you find her arguments to be stupid?

I'd be perfectly happy with the first, but the second one would be a problem.

Riot: This bothered me a little, why is the wizard outside the palace during a riot? The chances of Sence and Alina meeting just when Sence is being knocked to the ground are astronomical. Serendipity and all that, but it’s too convenient to feel real. Maybe it wouldn’t bother me so much save for the fact that the wizard shouldn’t have been out there, and neither should Sence, come to think of it. Also, the fact that they are able to have a quiet conversation in that place runs counter to what you stated before, that there is a real chance of being trampled to death.

Yeah, that scene isn't quite right. I'll have to rework that one.

Naïve King: For a merchant king of a merchant city-state I thought Vasco was terribly naïve in his arguments with Sence. He sounds like a youth who doesn’t understand the way the world works yet and is in for a rough awakening. He doesn’t sound like a king at all. The argument between him and Sence didn’t resonate with me because of that.

I agree that Vascos arguments are naive, but it's the same kind of naivety that's usually lauded in fictional heroes (the most recent example I've read is Dalinar Kholin from Brandon Sanderson's The Way of Kings) and in those few real world heroes that actually succeed with that sort of idealistic outlook (such as Mahatma Ghandi or Martin Luther King).

He's been able to maintain that level of idealism despite being in a position of power because his city was very prosperous and far from the borders of the kingdom, so they weren't directly involved in any wars. This is the first major crisis the city has faced in his lifetime.

Nitpick: There is a perspective error on page 12. “I told Quaros. She didn’t agree with him, but she couldn’t come up with…” Should be something like “I didn’t agree with him.”

Thanks for catching that. When switching between writing first person and third person I sometimes get mixed up and write whole paragraphs from the wrong perspective. I usually catch those pretty quickyl, but this one must have slipped through the cracks.

First sentence: I’ll agree with Mandamon that the first sentence reads a little like a generic fantasy opening, but I still liked it. That’s due to the second sentence “That much was to be expected”. It sets the cliché on its head, since even your characters know it’s a cliché.

Good, that's what I was going for.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Syme

[cjhuitt]

Good start to a story overall, good world-building, I'm wondering how the rest will play out.

In general, I also agree with Asmodemon's comments.

I don't really buy into the idea that main characters need to be active all the time. In this story, Sence is presented with a problem she doesn't understand, so being a rational and smart person, she first gathers information and considers the problem until she comes to a decision. Only then does she act decisively. Too often in fiction the heroes just stumble headlong into adventure without proper consideration or preparation that any reasonable person would do.

I don't think they need to be active all the time, but it helps to have high stakes for the character, and a reason they are in a scene. At the beginning, we don't get any real sense of this, other than that Sence is the wealthiest merchant in the city. That might be enough to get her a place at various functions, but isn't enough to immediately keep my interest in her as a character. It isn't until halfway through this part that we learn why the restoration of the portal is important to her in particular.

Another bit to note about the beginning of the story, I thought the viewpoint character was a wizard who had cast the spell to summon the other wizard (Alina). However, although there is a one-off line about all humans being able to do magic, there's no sense that Sence (ugh, sorry about that) is able or inclined to do that sort of thing.

Finally, for such a rational, convinced woman as Sence appears to be, I thought it seemed odd that she'd just sink down to the floor in the palace and be totally out of it for long enough that the servants are asking after her health. I also thought that, given the level of concern indicated, said servants probably wouldn't let her just get up and walk away by herself without assuring themselves that she was, indeed, fine.