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050415 - supersoup - Glass Skies, Prologue & Ch. 1


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The first draft of the Prologue and Ch. 1 for my epic fantasy novel.

I was only going to show the Prologue by itself initially, but it seemed to fall flat without rolling directly into the first chapter. Still comfortably under 5000 words though. I hope you enjoy!

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- This is a great opening. It's very simple yet very engaging, giving the reader time to adjust to this world at a relaxing pace. 

 

- Maybe a little more description on the Aerlands before you get too far into the story. What does the typical Aerland look like? This is especially easy since one of your characters is a scholar?

 

- When Pen says "She'll show, someday, like that Aerland", it seems a little out of place. Is he reassuring himself? It seems like something his friend Dev would say. Since I was still learning who was who, it confused me a bit.

 

- I cracked up when said says, "Shame on that. Your deafness, not your name." 

 

- Dev constantly calling Pen "goodman" seems like it could be an unnecessary quirk on his part. If "goodman" is a common term in this world, it might be good to have someone else say it . . . just having Dev say it over and over again may become grating. 

 

- I was wondering what these characters look like, especially the sisters. While a full description isn't necessary, a detail here and there about their hair or shape of their face and general body type might be helpful.

 

- Overall, I really loved this story and cannot wait to read more. I think Pen feels like a very sympathetic character I can relate to . . . a lot . . . and I really want to see where his adventure goes from this chapter! 

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This is a really nice opening. Your writing style is fluid and easy to read. I like how you come right out of the gate with the imagery of the aerlands. It's a great hook into the story. You've also done a really nice job of establishing both the overarching "world" plot (the appearance of the new aerland) as well as some smaller character-driven plots (Pen's relationship with the scholars, Dev trying to set him up with a lady friend). All of that is tied together nicely in this prologue and first chapter.  I just had a couple concerns/questions, which are listed below.

 

-The prologue feels really long to me, especially with the multiple scene breaks. The short scene between Rendevere and Lianye almost has more of a prologue feel to it because it's the only segment that seems to be one step removed from the action of the first chapter. Also it introduces what I assume is some sort of magic/fantasy element without explaining it, which gives it a very different tone from the rest.

-Your POV is a little indistinct. It feels like the story is going to be primarily from Pen's perspective, but it seems to flirt with Dev's POV at certain points. I didn't notice any outright POV errors, it just felt a little hazy, particularly when Pen and Dev are talking to the sisters in the garden. As I'm sure everyone's already figured out, I tend to harp on this sort of thing quite a bit. I just feel like the story could benefit from being rooted in Pen's viewpoint more strongly.

-As Microsoft Word so kindly pointed out to me, there are several times where you use "which" when it should technically be "that". It's not that big of a deal, but since it happens pretty frequently in these first few sections I would watch out for it going forward.

-This is really nitpicky, but I feel like the time period is slightly unclear. It feels medieval at certain points (knights, swords, flagons of ale) and Renaissance at others (telescopes, the academy of science). I wouldn't even necessarily say that it's a problem, I'm just curious as to whether anyone else noticed it and how they feel about it. If it does prove to be an issue, it's probably something that could be fixed with just a few lines of world building to give us a better sense of the society in which this takes place. At the same time, the lack of a major info dump from the get-go is a major plus. (How's that for wishy-washy? Hopefully the others will weigh in.)

-Speaking of time period, the phrase "play hard to get" stuck out to me as too modern for this context. It seemed at odds with the overall tone.

 

Great job overall! This whole passage reads really smoothly and has several hooks. I'm intrigued!

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pg 2: "red letter day."

--would this idiom translate over into your world?  It brought me out of the story a little.

 

pg 4: “Ol’ Dev’s owed two now,” 

--owed two what? Comissions?

 

pg 4: "Peon" is a strange word to choose.  Like an apprentice?

 

pg 5: "calling the master by his nickname"

--probably not needed

 

Are the characters on one of the aerlands? It's not clear.

 

There's a lot of "Goodman's" later on.

 

pg 15: There's a switch in POV in the middle of the page from Pen to Dev and then back, a few paragraphs after.  Without some sort of break, it's a little comfusing, since it's been in Pen POV for most of the time.  (Glad there's someone else picky about POV's, Mr. Wednesday.)

 

 

This was well written, very light, and held my interest the whole time.  It felt...witty.  I'm not sure if the prologue is actually that, or really chapter 1 in disguise, but it was a fun read.

 

I was sort of confused on what an Aerland was and whether they were on one, or whether they were all in the sky and the characters were on the ground.  

 

To second Mr. Wednesday, I also noticed the mash of times and technologies (swords, guns, medieval, and rennaissance tech) but I kind of like it.  It makes for a playful atmosphere.

 

Overall, this was a fun read.  Looking forward to more!

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Nice work, well done. I'm attracted to this setting and feel drawn to the characters. I think a lot of us can relate to Pen's desire for adventure and otherworldliness. Our world seems so drab sometimes. 

 

Quick question: Who is the intended audience? If it's young adult then I think it's good to be fast paced and a bit more obvious and emphatic about things. For more experienced reader I advise increasing the subtlety and letting things shine out of the subtext more than you would otherwise. 

 

 

 

Prologue

 

Feels a bit long with too many scenes. Give me a single vivid event.

 

Second paragraph does the same thing as the first, only better.

 

Little too much exposition.

 

Be more subtle in the dialogue: “Up early today—how uncharacteristic.”

 

Unmotivated description:

Without another word, he swept up to the telescope, his robe trailing behind and flowing with each step like a curtain in the breeze.

 

 

 

 

‘You can lose some of the speaker tags, since you often already know who’s talking,’ said Majestic Fox.

 

 

 

By the end of that first scene with Dev and Pen they struck me as bunk mates… maybe students in a university. Is that right? At this point I'm not sure who these people are. 

 

 

 

 

I can feel the author trying to hook my curiosity. Keep in mind you’re getting feedback from a writer here. We’re more prone to spotting craft techniques than other readers. That said, I think it’s useful to point out these things.
“The coloration indicates silica. Certainly glass, but that raises more questions I should think.”

 

 

 

Feels like you’re trying too hard to build character sometimes.

“And how were the ladies in the square last night? Captivating as always, I presume?”

Less tell, more show. Please. 

(Formatting note: I'm abandoning those damned quote boxed. I'll use bold to reference your text). 

 

 

“Go easy on the lad, Opples,” Podlaene said, calling the master by his nickname.

 

 

 

Redundancy. I can see it's his nickname. 

 

 

Are you writing third limited? I feel like Pen's perspective needs to be stronger. Occasionally there are bits of This unmotivated bit of exposition that jar me out of his shoes.

          E.g. The pursuit of science was often a passion which reinforced isolation.

 

 

This bit is interesting:

           He couldn’t help but feel that the next step for him was somewhere within the city of glass atop the aerland. 

You're getting closer to the heart of the character here. Pen feels drawn to this city. But why? What is it about his culture and who he is as a person that has created this desire in him? Go deep. I want to feel his sense of wonder and desire to reach this city. The sooner you get that into the story the better since you're drawing us into the character and setting at the same time, as well as establishing the tone of the story - a fantasy adventure that will fill me with awe and wonder, right?  : ) 

 

Okay, you've switched POV to Lianye. She seems interesting. I'm keen to learn more about who she is and where she is. 

 

Redundancy. 

She was focused on the gleaming spires atop the new aerland, which had appeared without warning overnight. 

(We already know they appeared without warning overnight).  

 

Okay, I've already written way more than I intended. I'm going to read through your text again and summarise my impressions...

 

 

Here's what I think the story needs:

  • Stronger point of view
  • Make me care about the characters first and foremost - any talk of legends is irrelevant to me otherwise
  • Slow the pace a little. Increase the immersion.

 

 

 

A few extra thoughts for good measure:

 

I like this:

The wave was stunted by an unseen force which formed an invisible perimeter—surf bending around her to rush up the beach. Rendevere took another step backward to avoid soaking his boots, the wave reaching where he had been just moments before. It soon flowed back out to sea, leaving a patch of packed, damp sand beneath Lianye. 

 It evokes setting and character in an indirect way. More of that kind of thing please. 

 

 

What’s Missing:

·         Early insight into Pen’s psyche – his inner world. What does this mean to him? What emotions are evoked? What internal conflict? (You don’t need interneral conflict, but give us more of an insight)

 

·         Scene with Pen and Dev: minor white room syndrome here. Conjure a sense of place – an atmosphere. I want to be immersed in your world. This scene feels airy. Indistinct. You can sacrifice some of your pace for immersion. 

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Thank you so much for all of your feedback, everybody! I really appreciate it, and the time each of you took to write out some very well considered critiques and comments. It's very exciting and encouraging to me that even in the first draft, the story is intriguing and enjoyable to read!

I'm a bit harried today, so please forgive me if any of my responses seem to lack substance. Also note, I'm not excusing any poor writing choices on my part, though I may offer a counter-point to help me better understand where I came up short. I'm here to learn and grow.
 

- Maybe a little more description on the Aerlands before you get too far into the story. What does the typical Aerland look like? This is especially easy since one of your characters is a scholar?

- When Pen says "She'll show, someday, like that Aerland", it seems a little out of place. Is he reassuring himself? It seems like something his friend Dev would say. Since I was still learning who was who, it confused me a bit.

- Dev constantly calling Pen "goodman" seems like it could be an unnecessary quirk on his part. If "goodman" is a common term in this world, it might be good to have someone else say it . . . just having Dev say it over and over again may become grating.

- I was wondering what these characters look like, especially the sisters. While a full description isn't necessary, a detail here and there about their hair or shape of their face and general body type might be helpful.


-Aerland appearance . . . Hmm. Like you and Majestic Fox noted, I tended to favor pace over description with my first draft. This was deliberate on my part, as I am fighting an old tendency of mine to be overly wordy, focusing in like a microscope on the most inane details with complicated sections of prose that lose sight of what the scene is actually about. I still haven't conquered this bad habit, as you will see in the next few chapters, but I'm trying. I will definitely work better descriptions into my second draft.

-Now that you've pointed it out to me, I'm having a hard time recalling what I intended for Pen to really be saying there with "She'll show someday". I think it may be left over from earlier iterations of that conversation with Dev, from a train of thought that doesn't seem to click anymore like I thought it did. I'll add that to the list, thank you for pointing it out. These are the sort of things I need to see from different readers' perspectives.

-"Goodman" is a common term in this world for highborn men to use when speaking with other highborn men. It implies a respectful and friendly familiarity. That said, perhaps I need to throttle back on Devoleane's use of it =P

-I spoke of my prior issues with descriptions up above. I will work on it! Luckily for you all, as what I suppose are the closest this story will have to alpha readers, only the first 12k words are set to page thus far. I'm nearing the end of Act 1 (or Book 1, if you will), which concludes with the events of the Ball. Acts 2 and onward I will be able to try and work your feedback into my first draft as I write.
 

-The prologue feels really long to me, especially with the multiple scene breaks. The short scene between Rendevere and Lianye almost has more of a prologue feel to it because it's the only segment that seems to be one step removed from the action of the first chapter. Also it introduces what I assume is some sort of magic/fantasy element without explaining it, which gives it a very different tone from the rest.
-Your POV is a little indistinct. It feels like the story is going to be primarily from Pen's perspective, but it seems to flirt with Dev's POV at certain points. I didn't notice any outright POV errors, it just felt a little hazy, particularly when Pen and Dev are talking to the sisters in the garden. As I'm sure everyone's already figured out, I tend to harp on this sort of thing quite a bit. I just feel like the story could benefit from being rooted in Pen's viewpoint more strongly.
-As Microsoft Word so kindly pointed out to me, there are several times where you use "which" when it should technically be "that". It's not that big of a deal, but since it happens pretty frequently in these first few sections I would watch out for it going forward.
-This is really nitpicky, but I feel like the time period is slightly unclear. It feels medieval at certain points (knights, swords, flagons of ale) and Renaissance at others (telescopes, the academy of science). I wouldn't even necessarily say that it's a problem, I'm just curious as to whether anyone else noticed it and how they feel about it. If it does prove to be an issue, it's probably something that could be fixed with just a few lines of world building to give us a better sense of the society in which this takes place. At the same time, the lack of a major info dump from the get-go is a major plus. (How's that for wishy-washy? Hopefully the others will weigh in.)
-Speaking of time period, the phrase "play hard to get" stuck out to me as too modern for this context. It seemed at odds with the overall tone.


-Seeing as even I was having trouble separating the Prologue from Ch. 1 for the submission, perhaps I will restructure that whole section to be Ch. 1, and consider writing another prologue.

-I have a lot of learning to do with viewpoints, as you can see. With the scene in the gardens, I hoped it would flow like scenes from a TV show, following one conversation between two people, then cut to the other two watching them from a short distance away. I see what you mean about the story benefiting from being rooted in Pen's POV, though. For the scenes that include him, I'll keep that in mind for the second draft.

-Which times? ;P No, I have trouble with that. I try to say it aloud and see which one "sounds" right to me, but as you can see I still might not get it right all the time. Something I need to work on for self-editing, that I suppose only comes with practice.

-Ah, the blend of tech levels was deliberate. This world is on the verge of a lot of different things--steam power, widespread use of gunpowder, industry, and a revolution of sorts. It's kind of this lanky teenager of a world, really; not quite grown up but not young anymore either. I hope to use that to interesting effect as the story progresses, but I will definitely need feedback to help me determine what works and what doesn't. For instance, in Ch. 5 gunpowder grenades play a fairly large role.

-"Hard to get" is going into the revise pile for the second draft.
 

pg 2: "red letter day."
--would this idiom translate over into your world? It brought me out of the story a little.

pg 4: “Ol’ Dev’s owed two now,”
--owed two what? Comissions?

pg 4: "Peon" is a strange word to choose. Like an apprentice?

pg 5: "calling the master by his nickname"
--probably not needed

Are the characters on one of the aerlands? It's not clear.

There's a lot of "Goodman's" later on.

pg 15: There's a switch in POV in the middle of the page from Pen to Dev and then back, a few paragraphs after. Without some sort of break, it's a little comfusing, since it's been in Pen POV for most of the time. (Glad there's someone else picky about POV's, Mr. Wednesday.)

I was sort of confused on what an Aerland was and whether they were on one, or whether they were all in the sky and the characters were on the ground.

To second Mr. Wednesday, I also noticed the mash of times and technologies (swords, guns, medieval, and rennaissance tech) but I kind of like it. It makes for a playful atmosphere.


-"Red letter day". I'm torn on how to approach idioms. I don't want to call a cow a "t'perlok" just to drive home the point that this is a fantasy world, and by the same token, I want it to have some familiarity for the reader. Another one of my growing pains as a writer though, I suppose--I still don't know how to work those effectively. Any suggestions?

-"Ol Dev's owed two now" may be another vestige from an earlier iteration of the conversation. It's as if Pen owes him for his love advice (which he is offering as a bet against his own commission), and then he reminds Pen why he actually left the observatory in the first place, so now he's owed two. I'll try to make the exchange of promises and favors more clear in the second draft.

-"Peon" may be better said as just "messenger" or "apprentice", yeah. I'll mark that one for revision.

-"nickname". I was worried that just calling him "Opples" might confuse the reader, but I've had it pointed out twice now that "calling him by his nickname" is vestigial. I'll probably just cut that then.

-The characters are on the world. The aerlands are a feature of the world; an arc of floating islands, as it were. Act 2 might actually clear that up a good deal, as that's my "Let's set off on a world-spanning adventure" portion of the story. I'll look for ways to make that clear earlier on in the second draft.

-Too many goodmans, as I'm discovering =P I'll work on that.

-For the POV switch, as easy solution is to make it clear Pen can hear what Dev is saying, but that might detract from the idea that Pen and Satiaera kind of enter their own little world as they talk. I'll see what I can do to find another way to work that conversation for the second draft.

-I certainly want to have fun with the mishmash of times and tech. One of my favorite times of history to study is the Sengoku era of feudal Japan. It was this glorious combination of Daimyos leading traditional samurai, with time-tested weapons like bows and katanas, against Daimyos willing to field the newly imported matchlock rifles and other gunpowder weapons from the West nearer the end of the era. The honor and chivalry of close quarters combat contrasted with newer ways to wage war--very exciting! To me, at least. And I hope to give that same impression with my world.
 

Quick question: Who is the intended audience? If it's young adult then I think it's good to be fast paced and a bit more obvious and emphatic about things. For more experienced reader I advise increasing the subtlety and letting things shine out of the subtext more than you would otherwise.

Be more subtle in the dialogue: “Up early today—how uncharacteristic.”

Unmotivated description:
Without another word, he swept up to the telescope, his robe trailing behind and flowing with each step like a curtain in the breeze.


‘You can lose some of the speaker tags, since you often already know who’s talking,’ said Majestic Fox.


By the end of that first scene with Dev and Pen they struck me as bunk mates… maybe students in a university. Is that right? At this point I'm not sure who these people are.


I can feel the author trying to hook my curiosity. Keep in mind you’re getting feedback from a writer here. We’re more prone to spotting craft techniques than other readers. That said, I think it’s useful to point out these things.
“The coloration indicates silica. Certainly glass, but that raises more questions I should think.”


Feels like you’re trying too hard to build character sometimes.
“And how were the ladies in the square last night? Captivating as always, I presume?”
Less tell, more show. Please.
(Formatting note: I'm abandoning those damned quote boxed. I'll use bold to reference your text).


“Go easy on the lad, Opples,” Podlaene said, calling the master by his nickname.
Redundancy. I can see it's his nickname.


Are you writing third limited? I feel like Pen's perspective needs to be stronger. Occasionally there are bits of This unmotivated bit of exposition that jar me out of his shoes.
E.g. The pursuit of science was often a passion which reinforced isolation.


This bit is interesting:
He couldn’t help but feel that the next step for him was somewhere within the city of glass atop the aerland.
You're getting closer to the heart of the character here. Pen feels drawn to this city. But why? What is it about his culture and who he is as a person that has created this desire in him? Go deep. I want to feel his sense of wonder and desire to reach this city. The sooner you get that into the story the better since you're drawing us into the character and setting at the same time, as well as establishing the tone of the story - a fantasy adventure that will fill me with awe and wonder, right? : )

Redundancy.
She was focused on the gleaming spires atop the new aerland, which had appeared without warning overnight.
(We already know they appeared without warning overnight).

  • Make me care about the characters first and foremost - any talk of legends is irrelevant to me otherwise
  • Slow the pace a little. Increase the immersion.
What’s Missing:
· Early insight into Pen’s psyche – his inner world. What does this mean to him? What emotions are evoked? What internal conflict? (You don’t need interneral conflict, but give us more of an insight)

· Scene with Pen and Dev: minor white room syndrome here. Conjure a sense of place – an atmosphere. I want to be immersed in your world. This scene feels airy. Indistinct. You can sacrifice some of your pace for immersion.

-Intended audience-- that's a great question, and something I'm actively considering. I would say that I'm most interested in writing young adult stories, but I'm disappointed in the tropes which dominate the genre today. Sure, I bring up romance early, and it will be a part of the story, but it's only one subplot. Only a small part of the character's lives, and I want to make that clear. It doesn't define them or their interactions with one another. I would like to write a story that young adults can read, seeing elements they enjoy like coming-of-age and romance, but which doesn't distract more mature readers from enjoying the fantasy and more complex elements like the influence of politics and religion on the bigger picture. That's part of the reason for the characters of Rendevere and Lianye-- they are more embroiled in the subtleties of geopolitical matters, while Pen and Dev are more focused on the young adult elements. Eventually, they will come together, and their goals will merge somewhat, while Pen and Dev still have those simpler elements driving their hopes and aspirations. Haha, I guess you could say I want it all. Any thoughts on this?

-"How uncharacteristic" was wholly unintentional, when I first wrote it. I did notice it after a while, but simply giggled and carried on. I'll find another way to say what I mean to say, that is, Yvole didn't expect Pen to be up there early in the morning.

-If you would be willing, please tell me a bit more about what you don't like in the description "his robe trailing behind . . . ", I not sure I follow.

-I'll give serious consideration to voice tags moving forward, and mark down these first few chapters for my second draft.

-Perhaps a bit of dialogue added in for the second draft can make Pen and Dev's relationship clearer. They are old friends, apprentices in an Academy dedicated to the sciences, a rather new concept for the old Kingdom.

-"Raises more questions" is a bit I like, as I'm imagining my grandmother or father reading the story, and I want to make sure they have ample guidance for drawing the necessary connections to see the goals that the characters do. Not to mention, the masters are reasoning out the aerland among themselves, and I would like for the scene to feel as though they're batting ideas back and forth. Second draft, I suppose.

-"Captivating as always" was supposed to imply that Devoleane, rather that watching the aerlands during his shift, was using the telescope to admire the ladies in the square. Is there a way I could make this clearer, for it to work?

-Yeah, I'll drop the reference to "calling the master by his nickname".

-For Pen's POV, and my POV issues, is it better written like so? "Pen felt as though it were a pursuit that reinforced isolation." I do mean for that to be his feelings on the matter, not omniscient commentary.

-I'm always worried that my attempts to inject "awe and wonder" will come off as pretentious or fall flat, but that's certainly what I hope to achieve. I guess I'm afraid to try and inject too much "emotion" into my writing, but that's really at the core of good writing, isn't it? I struggle with this, for certain-- any tips or advice?

-Even though the readers already know about the new aerland, Lianye is just discovering it for herself. Are there any tips for how to express this, without beating the readers over the head with it a second time? =P

-Characters first, legends later-- I could definitely do a lot to rework that section. EDIT: Blast it all, I may just cut all mention of the legend from Rend and Lianye's intro scene in the second draft. I definitely want to give those two the time they need to develop as characters without muddying the waters. I'm rather fond of them.

-Like I mentioned way up above, I struggle with a tendency for wordiness, which I've found can break both pacing and immersion simultaneously. I'll see what I can do for the second draft as far as taking the time to paint the picture a little more clearly, and in Act 2 and 3 moving forward.

-Pen's psyche kind of ties in to my worry about building "awe and wonder"-- I'm concerned that I lack the skill to potray it effectively, without coming off as immature, I suppose. Not an excuse, though. I'll try to work on that.

-I'm honestly really encouraged that you would tell me to sacrifice a bit of the pacing for building up the world. That's something I've been craving, but was afraid to let myself off of the leash for, due to my bad habits for excess words. I'll loosen up a bit and see what happens, from Ch. 6 onwards. I'll revisit the first few chapters and add world details in the second draft, then.



Thanks so much for all of your thoughts and perspectives rdpulfer, Mr. Wednesday, Mandamon, and Majestic Fox! Looking forward to seeing all of your feedback and critiques on the next chapter =)

Edited by supersoup
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 I tended to favor pace over description with my first draft. This was deliberate on my part, as I am fighting an old tendency of mine to be overly wordy, focusing in like a microscope on the most inane details with complicated sections of prose that lose sight of what the scene is actually about. I still haven't conquered this bad habit, as you will see in the next few chapters, but I'm trying. I will definitely work better descriptions into my second draft.

 

 

I can understand this. I really like Robin Hobb's advice (20 minutes in) of turning your internal editor down on the first draft. I'm not very good at this. Terrible in fact, which slows things down a fair bit. If I could choose to be someone who can blast of a first draft without worrying about how good it is, then I would. If you're more of a momentum writer (someone who gets inspired by progressing through their story more than the quality of writing), then it's probably a good idea to keep doing what you're doing. That said, I recommend allowing yourself a little more description on your first draft. There are some great podcasts on viewpoint and description. Also check out Brandon Sanderson's talk on Viewpoint and Description. Take note of the 'grandmaster skill' of fantasy writers. 

 

 

Haha, I guess you could say I want it all. Any thoughts on this?

 

I admire the idea of writing more original ya fantasy. A worthy goal. 

 

 

Yvole studied the page, his eyes tracing the outlines of structures. Without another word, he swept up to the telescope, his robe trailing behind and flowing with each step like a curtain in the breeze. Pen backed away, looking between his feet at the polished wooden floor as he awaited his master’s conclusion. 

 

With third limited, your inhabiting the perspective of one character, so every bit of description should be influenced by their emotional state - their unique way of experiencing the world. When I read this line above I thought Well, that's a nice image, but why is Pen noticing it? 

This relates to what Sanderson considers the 'grandmaster skill of fantasy writers', mentioned above. 

 

 

-"Captivating as always" was supposed to imply that Devoleane, rather that watching the aerlands during his shift, was using the telescope to admire the ladies in the square. Is there a way I could make this clearer, for it to work?

 

Don't worry about it, just get it on the rewrite. Same goes for a lot of this - you'll probably end up cutting whole scenes, so line editing at this stage isn't the best use of your time. (Wish I could follow my own advice here - damnation that internal editor).

 

For Pen's POV, and my POV issues, is it better written like so? "Pen felt as though it were a pursuit that reinforced isolation." I do mean for that to be his feelings on the matter, not omniscient commentary.

 

 

Go back and re-read A Song of Ice and Fire and The Liveship Traders. Those are two of the best examples of third limited I've come across in the genre. Study the crap out of them. 

 

 

-I'm always worried that my attempts to inject "awe and wonder" will come off as pretentious or fall flat, but that's certainly what I hope to achieve. I guess I'm afraid to try and inject too much "emotion" into my writing, but that's really at the core of good writing, isn't it? I struggle with this, for certain-- any tips or advice?

 

  • Vivid, evocative description of your setting through the lens of your character. Insights into what emotions the setting is evoking in them.
  • Show don't tell. 
  • With YA, I hear it's better to show a little more emotion in the characters than you would otherwise. There's a podcast on this somewhere, but the theory is that younger people have not had as much experience with body language, emotional 'tells', nor the way these are rendered in books

 

Even though the readers already know about the new aerland, Lianye is just discovering it for herself. Are there any tips for how to express this, without beating the readers over the head with it a second time?

 

The fact she is paying so much attention does most of the work for you. If the aerland had been there for a month she probably wouldn't be so interested in it.  

 

 

-Characters first, legends later-- I could definitely do a lot to rework that section. EDIT: Blast it all, I may just cut all mention of the legend from Rend and Lianye's intro scene in the second draft. I definitely want to give those two the time they need to develop as characters without muddying the waters. I'm rather fond of them.

 

Yeah, don't worry too much about it now. Just keep writing  : )

 

-Like I mentioned way up above, I struggle with a tendency for wordiness, which I've found can break both pacing and immersion simultaneously. I'll see what I can do for the second draft as far as taking the time to paint the picture a little more clearly, and in Act 2 and 3 moving forward.

 

It's probably better to start with more words, then cut away as opposed to the reverse. But whatever works best for you. Some of my alpha readers have advised me to slow the pace and give them more description, which was a bit of a shock to me. One of my worries was that it was too slow, but I think that's to do with the fact that what takes me a day to write takes them a minute to read. 

 

 

-Pen's psyche kind of ties in to my worry about building "awe and wonder"-- I'm concerned that I lack the skill to potray it effectively, without coming off as immature, I suppose. Not an excuse, though. I'll try to work on that.

 

 

Practice  : )    

 

And don't worry if it's not great. As Robin Hobb says "No body writes beautiful, compelling prose the first time they sit down". And that's coming from one of the best writers in our genre. 

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-"Red letter day". I'm torn on how to approach idioms. I don't want to call a cow a "t'perlok" just to drive home the point that this is a fantasy world, and by the same token, I want it to have some familiarity for the reader. Another one of my growing pains as a writer though, I suppose--I still don't know how to work those effectively. Any suggestions?

 

I run into the same thing.  Robinski's good at calling me on it ;-)

 

Generally, if it looks like a cow and moves like a cow, call it a cow.  But at the same time, something like "red letter day" has all the historical background that made it into an expression we understand in English.  Someone speaking Japanese might be confused by what it means.  A good rule of thumb is if the expression doesn't directly translate into another language, try making up an in-world expression.

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All in, I thoroughly enjoyed this submission, very easy to read and be engaged by. Convincing, three dimensional characters that are likeable straight away and all distinct in their outlook and their goals. Great job, I'm eager to read more.

Detailed comments on reading follow:

I think this is a great example of how to start a story. A short paragraph gives us a (presumably main) character, some the outline of the situation and some world-building. Great opening and great name for the protagonist.

Your style puts me in mind of the late and exceedingly great Jack Vance, the SFF author who really opened my youthful eyes to what the genre could be. If you don't know his oeuvre, do yourself a favour and check out the Lyonesse Trilogy, followed by the Cadwal Chronicles.

I'm not aware of Sir Terry Pratchett giving too many sleeve quotes, however he said of Vance "One of the best and most influential fantasy writers of the 20th century". You might think that sounds like an off-the-cuff sleeve quote, but do you really think Sir Terry would stoop to that? I don't. But sorry, that's waaaaay off topic!

So, the opening page turns into an excellent first section. We are given a conflict and another interesting character. I find your style very easy to read, it flows nicely with some appealing highlights, but the writing itself is invisible, which is the ideal. My only negative is the last line of that first section. The "red letter day" thing is rather cliched.

"Devoleane SPRANG out of..."

The interplay with Dev is very entertaining. The dialogue is snappy and rests easy on the ear. Read it out loud and it sounds natural. Excellent job. Dev himself was an instant hit with me. I love a rogue and I think his stripe is clear. I'm finding your style to be infused with an old world charm that is neither stilted nor awkward. Not easy to do, I think. Very Vance-ian with a sprinkling of Moorcock.

"The pursuit of science was often a passion which reinforced isolation" is a beautiful line, although I would say 'Often, the pursuit of science was a passion which reinforced isolation.' Maybe that's just a matter of opinion, or maybe you are right, and my grammar is less good than I think it is - a more likely explanation.

"city of glass atop the NEW aerland" - perhaps?

"which had appeared overnight without warning"?

Nice banter between the couple in the next section, very easy and convincing.

I found the introduction of magic convincing. No grandstanding or extravagant gestures, an everyday situation, a reasonable circumstance, not contrived to showcase Lianye's art. Well done. So often a first incidence of magic might have been an attack or other violent or spectacular gesture, but this is more thoughtful, a hint fa that starts the reader thinking about the possibilities without deflecting or distracting us from the intriguing opening to the story. Just goes to show that one doesn't need to start with all guns blazing if there is a good setting, inserting characters and an intriguing mystery.

Again, one detail tripped me a little. Refuge is not a verb where I come from.

Into Chapter 1. Perhaps a bit complex on the description in laces, it slowed me down keeping track of the names. I like their complexity, it's different, I don't mind that challenge, but it does slow the reader down a bit fixing them before continuing.

Dev sure does have a lot of sayings! There's a point there where it gets a bit much, two very close together, but there are none after that, so I reckon you get away with it. The final section very very enjoyable, you manage a convincing and snappy byplay between the two pairs and the two couples - very well done.

You finish the chapter with the promise of more intrigue and a good deal more romantic tension at the ball. I'm completely on board.

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I run into the same thing.  Robinski's good at calling me on it ;-)

 

Generally, if it looks like a cow and moves like a cow, call it a cow.  But at the same time, something like "red letter day" has all the historical background that made it into an expression we understand in English.  Someone speaking Japanese might be confused by what it means.  A good rule of thumb is if the expression doesn't directly translate into another language, try making up an in-world expression.

Ha-ha, well this time, I'm calling "red letter day" for different reasons, as you will see from my comments.

I'm totally with Mandamon (and you) about the cow thing, that kind of deliberate fantasy labelling always smacks of desperation to me.

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My only negative is the last line of that first section. The "red letter day" thing is rather cliched.

"Devoleane SPRANG out of..."

"The pursuit of science was often a passion which reinforced isolation" is a beautiful line, although I would say 'Often, the pursuit of science was a passion which reinforced isolation.' Maybe that's just a matter of opinion, or maybe you are right, and my grammar is less good than I think it is - a more likely explanation.

"which had appeared overnight without warning"?

Again, one detail tripped me a little. Refuge is not a verb where I come from.

Into Chapter 1. Perhaps a bit complex on the description in laces, it slowed me down keeping track of the names. I like their complexity, it's different, I don't mind that challenge, but it does slow the reader down a bit fixing them before continuing.

Dev sure does have a lot of sayings! There's a point there where it gets a bit much, two very close together, but there are none after that, so I reckon you get away with it. The final section very very enjoyable, you manage a convincing and snappy byplay between the two pairs and the two couples - very well done.

 

I really appreciate your kind words and gentle nudging at the weaknesses in my writing.

 

-"Red letter day" is gone in the second draft.

 

-"Devoleane SPRANG out of . . . " Sprung? Springed? I do struggle with these sorts of tenses. I usually end up using some archaic form of the word, as you noticed elsewhere.

 

-My grammar is terrible, haha. I taught myself to read at a young age, and skipped the whole "Hooked on Phonics" stage. As a result, I have learned mostly by imitation, and make up the rest. You may be right here. I'll consider other ways to phrase that. With the suggestion you provided, I can't help but feel the urge to put a comma before "which", which (lol) seems to break the flow. It's on my "consider revision" list for the second draft.

 

-This suggestion I do like, "overnight without warning". It does seem to flow better.

 

-Yeah, "to refuge" is a very archaic use of the word. Probably in my best interest to consider alternatives, but dang it all if I don't like it as a verb. =P

 

-If nothing else, I hope for my writing to flow without bogging down the reader too much. I do drop quite a few names in Ch. 1, but I feel like some of them are key for fixing their location geographically so I can reference other locations based on where they find themselves. I'll try to find ways to spread out the name drops.

 

-I'm not overly fond of how I dropped two sayings so close together, but Devoleane is a character who prides himself in a faux air of culture. Key to his character, but I'll look for more palatable ways to express that in my revisions.

 

Thank you for your feedback! =)

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