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Dec 31 - Syme - A King's Death Chapter 4 (S)


Syme

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The first section, with Nikon, was decent for establishing more of the culture and setting, but also seemed to largely be there to convey information is a slightly-non-infodumpy way. In particular, I thought everything past "It's in Sarkis best interests not to negotiate with us" in that paragraph was odd to be spoken like that, especially to a 15-year-old, who in that time I would think would be nearly considered an adult. The rest does seem applicable, but it could be presented in narration form, I think, rather than spoken.

Also, while Leontas hoped Nikon went, he doesn't really show much emotion one way or another throughout the rest of the discussion. Nor does Nikon, for that matter, which leaves the dialog rather bare for the last half of the section.

Speaking of bare, the first paragraph seems out of place with much of the rest of the story. Even in the woman's chapter (forgive me; I can't recall her name), I don't recall much overtly sexual content. Also, that was from one character's POV, where this is from a different one. The biggest thought I had from this (other than it showing the culture) is that it seems like a promise about how the rest of the book will proceed. If that is the case -- all (or most) POVs occasionally having more sexual scenes -- then the scene is fine for me how it is. If not, I'd suggest minimizing some of those aspects, for example the effect as he's being washed and result when putting on his tunic.

Diocles comes off as a bit of a pompous chull -- all from his father's POV. Nicely done, if that was the intent. I'm now gleefully hoping that Diocles gets it in his head that, as the responsible party at the foundry, he is the one that is to put Prochoros in his place. On the other hand, unless it's relevant to the story, it will probably not happen in-scene, so I'll just have to cherish my own imaginings for how it would happen.

It would also be nicely done if Diocles bungles things and drives Prochoros off, resulting in the weapons not being made quickly enough or to good enough quality, resulting in more problems in the war. I don't know how much effect one foundry could realistically make, but it would be an interesting domino to push down.

A traitor! Dun dun dun! Of course it could be almost anyone. How about Diocles? Sounds fun to me.

For the last section, it seemed... not extraneous, exactly. Rushed, perhaps. Or not full enough? It was good to have the information about opponents to treating with Sarkis, and what they might demand, and a bit of extra world-building and history was nicely worked in there. On the other hand, the section seemed quite brief. We only got about a page of argument interspersed with background information. It seems like this wants to be a bigger scene with more conflict, but I'm not sure how that fits into your plan for the novel.

I think a lot of my reaction to that section may have to do with how it starts -- which is to say, slowly. There's a lot of tell happening at the beginning of the section ("he was hosting", along with a lot of thoughts about how politics had gone downhill) before we even get to the conflict. Perhaps the conflict could be introduced sooner in the scene? Perhaps parts of that cut for later, to be worked in as smaller chunks? I'm not sure, but I do know my reading speed and my attention to the document both dropped after about a paragraph into the section, and I was tempted to skim until things got more exciting again.

This isn't to say bad things about the chapter as a whole; despite some rough patches, I think each part works well for setting up the story. The second section is actually partly to blame also, since I got so involved with what was happening with Diocles, and then the letter, that it made the drop into the beginning of the third section even more noticeable for me.

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Hi Syme,

This is a hard review for me to write, I think because I would have put the book down upon reading this chapter. Leontas does have a distinct voice and the prose is well written, but I can't help but wonder why we're being shown Leontas' leaving instead of Leontas' already having left. It just feels like it could use a good dose of "in late, out early". I'm not particularly interested in Leontas' personal life and would probably skip forward to find out what's happening to Filista.

I was a little confused with the information conveyed about the traitor and the man caught crossing the lines. Was the man who was killed supposed to be delivering the message to the traitor in Thereos? I liked that Leontas questioned the the encryption and the letter, they were the same questions I was thinking about the letter and having him ask them seems to assure me I'll get those questions answered later on.

The feast seemed a bit info-dumpy and I couldn't understand why the information about the mines was important but perhaps you'll explain that later on.

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The first section, with Nikon, was decent for establishing more of the culture and setting, but also seemed to largely be there to convey information is a slightly-non-infodumpy way. In particular, I thought everything past "It's in Sarkis best interests not to negotiate with us" in that paragraph was odd to be spoken like that, especially to a 15-year-old, who in that time I would think would be nearly considered an adult. The rest does seem applicable, but it could be presented in narration form, I think, rather than spoken.

Not sure how you mean that. I think what you meant was that what Leontas said was something that would already be apparent to Nikon. If so, I disagree. I think his deductions are not obvious at all and defintely worth mentioning.

Also, while Leontas hoped Nikon went, he doesn't really show much emotion one way or another throughout the rest of the discussion. Nor does Nikon, for that matter, which leaves the dialog rather bare for the last half of the section.

You're right on that, thanks for mentioning it.

Speaking of bare, the first paragraph seems out of place with much of the rest of the story. Even in the woman's chapter (forgive me; I can't recall her name), I don't recall much overtly sexual content. Also, that was from one character's POV, where this is from a different one. The biggest thought I had from this (other than it showing the culture) is that it seems like a promise about how the rest of the book will proceed. If that is the case -- all (or most) POVs occasionally having more sexual scenes -- then the scene is fine for me how it is. If not, I'd suggest minimizing some of those aspects, for example the effect as he's being washed and result when putting on his tunic.

There are a handful of scenes with sexual content, but no full blown sex scenes. Yes, the actual sexual content is more explicit in this scene, but I really don't think it's too bad. This was never meant to be a children's book and I think the little bit of sexual content contained in this chapter and a handful of others is very mild compared to the violence.

Diocles comes off as a bit of a pompous chull -- all from his father's POV. Nicely done, if that was the intent. I'm now gleefully hoping that Diocles gets it in his head that, as the responsible party at the foundry, he is the one that is to put Prochoros in his place. On the other hand, unless it's relevant to the story, it will probably not happen in-scene, so I'll just have to cherish my own imaginings for how it would happen.

It would also be nicely done if Diocles bungles things and drives Prochoros off, resulting in the weapons not being made quickly enough or to good enough quality, resulting in more problems in the war. I don't know how much effect one foundry could realistically make, but it would be an interesting domino to push down.

A traitor! Dun dun dun! Of course it could be almost anyone. How about Diocles? Sounds fun to me.

Wow, you certainly seem to hate Diocles. I'll take it as a good sign that you're becoming emotionally involved in the story ^^

For the last section, it seemed... not extraneous, exactly. Rushed, perhaps. Or not full enough? It was good to have the information about opponents to treating with Sarkis, and what they might demand, and a bit of extra world-building and history was nicely worked in there. On the other hand, the section seemed quite brief. We only got about a page of argument interspersed with background information. It seems like this wants to be a bigger scene with more conflict, but I'm not sure how that fits into your plan for the novel.

I think a lot of my reaction to that section may have to do with how it starts -- which is to say, slowly. There's a lot of tell happening at the beginning of the section ("he was hosting", along with a lot of thoughts about how politics had gone downhill) before we even get to the conflict. Perhaps the conflict could be introduced sooner in the scene? Perhaps parts of that cut for later, to be worked in as smaller chunks? I'm not sure, but I do know my reading speed and my attention to the document both dropped after about a paragraph into the section, and I was tempted to skim until things got more exciting again.

This isn't to say bad things about the chapter as a whole; despite some rough patches, I think each part works well for setting up the story. The second section is actually partly to blame also, since I got so involved with what was happening with Diocles, and then the letter, that it made the drop into the beginning of the third section even more noticeable for me.

Thanks for those comments, I'll see how I can revise that section. It was added in last into the chapter and I spent the least amount of time on it, which may explain this.

Hi Syme,

This is a hard review for me to write, I think because I would have put the book down upon reading this chapter. Leontas does have a distinct voice and the prose is well written, but I can't help but wonder why we're being shown Leontas' leaving instead of Leontas' already having left. It just feels like it could use a good dose of "in late, out early". I'm not particularly interested in Leontas' personal life and would probably skip forward to find out what's happening to Filista.

Hmm, that doesn't sound good at all. Any particular reason why you don't want to learn about Leontas's personal life?

I was a little confused with the information conveyed about the traitor and the man caught crossing the lines. Was the man who was killed supposed to be delivering the message to the traitor in Thereos? I liked that Leontas questioned the the encryption and the letter, they were the same questions I was thinking about the letter and having him ask them seems to assure me I'll get those questions answered later on.

Things are a bit confusing, aren't they? :D

Just for non-spoiler clarification, Damianos believes the messenger carried a message for someone in Thereos (because the messenger had a map of Thereos), which is why he contacted Leontas in the first place.

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The first section, with Nikon, was decent for establishing more of the culture and setting, but also seemed to largely be there to convey information is a slightly-non-infodumpy way. In particular, I thought everything past "It's in Sarkis best interests not to negotiate with us" in that paragraph was odd to be spoken like that, especially to a 15-year-old, who in that time I would think would be nearly considered an adult. The rest does seem applicable, but it could be presented in narration form, I think, rather than spoken.

Not sure how you mean that. I think what you meant was that what Leontas said was something that would already be apparent to Nikon. If so, I disagree. I think his deductions are not obvious at all and defintely worth mentioning.

You may be correct that the conclusions are non-obvious. What I intended to convey was that the dialog there seemed off to me, and it struck me as if it was being said primarily so that the reader would learn these things, and only secondarily so that information could be conveyed between characters. (Of course, on a deeper level that is always true, but hopefully this explains it somewhat.) It could be that just editing the dialog some, or rearranging it, or something would make it read better and no longer raise any concerns for me. As it was, that was one section that jumped me out of the story, so I thought you should know.

Speaking of bare, the first paragraph seems out of place with much of the rest of the story. Even in the woman's chapter (forgive me; I can't recall her name), I don't recall much overtly sexual content. Also, that was from one character's POV, where this is from a different one. The biggest thought I had from this (other than it showing the culture) is that it seems like a promise about how the rest of the book will proceed. If that is the case -- all (or most) POVs occasionally having more sexual scenes -- then the scene is fine for me how it is. If not, I'd suggest minimizing some of those aspects, for example the effect as he's being washed and result when putting on his tunic.

There are a handful of scenes with sexual content, but no full blown sex scenes. Yes, the actual sexual content is more explicit in this scene, but I really don't think it's too bad. This was never meant to be a children's book and I think the little bit of sexual content contained in this chapter and a handful of others is very mild compared to the violence.

Just so I'm sure this is clear as well, I didn't find the actual content to be bad, nor do I think there is too much of it -- just that so far, it is appearing very inconsistently in the story, so it sticks out to me right now. The violence, to use your example, is presented to the reader from the very beginning, with the story set in a war. Indeed, it begins in the prologue, continues as a remote threat in the first chapter, is present directly in the second, and the third deals with repercussions of the violence we saw in the prologue. The sexual content, on the other hand, is absent from the prologue, absent from the first chapter, one inciting factor in the second (but not the main focus, as it were), is absent from the third, and is now in one small slice of the fourth.

As I said, this makes it stick out to me. Now, this can be used to your advantage as well, if something significant is tied into those parts, because they will stick out like that. On the other hand, if you don't want them to stick out as much, I think you could do so even by adding a little more content earlier in the story, so it is an aspect of the story that is introduced earlier on and becomes part of the setting. To put in in writing excuses terms, I feel like the "promise to the reader" (as I am reading it so far) includes violence, but not sexual content, so that scene seems out of place. If the "promise to the reader" did include such then I would be expected it and it would fit right in. I'm not sure what exactly would be needed to alter that promise from my current impression, but that is how I was feeling when I read it.

Does that make any sense? I hope so.

Wow, you certainly seem to hate Diocles. I'll take it as a good sign that you're becoming emotionally involved in the story ^^

It is certainly a good sign, and you should take it that way. Especially since you were able to get that connection with so few words. As a paraphrase of something I've heard said, hate isn't the wrong emotion for the writer to provoke; apathy is.

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