TheOneKEA Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 While reading this thread about the frame of reference used to anchor a time bubble while on a spaceship, I remembered a related thought: can you enter Shadesmar when you are in space? I've been thinking about this for a while in relation to the discussions regarding the Physical and Cognitive aspects of non-sapient things like furniture in relation to Forgery and the Forging of such objects. Based on what we know about Shadesmar on Roshar and Sel and how strongly it mimics the Physical aspect of the planet in those instances, I'm wondering if the influence of that Physical aspect (such as a planetary gravity well) also defines the boundary of Shadesmar, and outside of that boundary it is impossible to enter because it is simply not there. The same thought applies to exiting Shadesmar in space, if it is even possible to enter - you could end up floating in the void... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 An interesting question! I would imagine that outer space would tend to have rather weak cognitive and spiritual aspects. The question of "nothing" is an interesting one in the real world. In a place where things are defined by what people think of them, I have no idea what would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Yasha Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Well space is not "nothing" as it's filled with sub-atomic particles that create radiation, heat, cold, clouds of gasses, etc. If the Physical aspect exists extraneous to life it can pervade every inch of the Cosmere where there is matter. Now, we've seen arguements around here before that deal with "thinking trees" and they're inanimate objects! If, for the sake of arguement, we assume trees have a Spiritual and Cognitive aspect, I'm willing to bet the underlying structure of that tree (ie. particles/molecules) is the cause. As it is with all living beings. Since converting mass to one form of energy would make more sense than trying to force a body into a realm with different laws of physics. I say this because in Shadesmar you need your Spiritual aspect to control your form in that realm, whereas you'd be employing the Physical and Cognitive to function in reality. OK, I'm rambling; look, elephant! Feel free to poke me with criticism, I'm just thinking out loud here and the aspects aren't my strong suit xD If Shadesmar mimics your physical location, could it not mimic space too? My point was, where there exists matter, there is a Physical aspect. Not sure about Spiritual though. Edited November 20, 2012 by Lyrebon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperity Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Speaking of space, I wonder if Realmatic Theory will become known to the universal masses as access to Shadesmar would negate the need for space travel to other planets. Then again I wonder if someone has to travel to another planet before being able to go there through Shadesmar (only brought it up since we don't know how far technology had advanced pre-Shattering). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lDanielHolm Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 That depends on how exactly entering Shadesmar works. For instance, in the case of Soulcasting, I do not think you go there physically -- every time we see Jasnah Soulcast, she is present in the Physical Realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsk Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) A lack of Shadesmar in space could be exactly what makes it so useful for travel, if the lack of anything interesting in space corresponds to very short distances between "interesting" places. Or at least, shorter than interstellar distances! I can imagine some path or veil that has to be crossed, corresponding to the very limited cognitive presence of the space between worlds, but whatever that path is and whatever its difficulty, it sure beats space travel without FTL. Edited November 23, 2012 by Morsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 @Morsk: That's generally what I was thinking. If "space" is nothing, in Shadesmar the "distance" between planets could be very small indeed. Here's waiting for Stormlight 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 A lack of Shadesmar in space could be exactly what makes it so useful for travel, if the lack of anything interesting in space corresponds to very short distances between "interesting" places. Or at least, shorter than interstellar distances! I can imagine some path or veil that has to be crossed, corresponding to the very limited cognitive presence of the space between worlds, but whatever that path is and whatever its difficulty, it sure beats space travel without FTL. The secret to worldhopping revealed. One problem though: When you soulcast, your body doesn't move. With the above, all you'd do is stick you mind on another planet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11thorderknight Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Correction: when Jasnah enters Shadesmar, her body doesn't move. We know that there was/is an order of the Knights that had access to instantaneous travel. Maybe they also access Shadesmar, but instead of changing the form of objects around them, they change their location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonko the Sane Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 Correction: when Jasnah enters Shadesmar, her body doesn't move. We know that there was/is an order of the Knights that had access to instantaneous travel. Maybe they also access Shadesmar, but instead of changing the form of objects around them, they change their location? But if that's the case, and Shadesmar can be utilized to expedite travel on one planet, in addition to between two, then we are still missing something beyond the cognitive properties of a vacuum. I, personally hold with the theory that Hoid is simply very good at tricking himself into "seeing himself as being" somewhere else, as the ability to easily force a false belief on himself sounds very Hoidish, and as far as I can tell, there's no reason why the above system wouldn't work, regardless of whether its the one Hoid uses or not. Also, keep in mind that the first time Shallan Soulcast, she did not visit Shadesmar (This was the occasion on which she faked her own suicide to conceal he newfound talent). I believe that the two abilities are linked, but not identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj26792 Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'm going to disagree with you on that last point Wonko, I think they are the same but its a matter of degrees. In order to soulcast you have to push your consciousness into the cognitive realm and manipulate it in a way that causes certain changes in the physical, the reason most people need to touch what they soulcast could then be that they need to 'aim' and they can't target things they aren't touching because they can't find them without going more completely into the cognitive realm. When Jasnah and Shallan go into the cognitive realm proper, I think they're doing the same thing, but going all the way in, and you could use this for more complicated soulcasting, and worldhopping and whatever else, I don't think ranged soulcasting would work if you went all the way into the cognitive realm, at least not in any combat useful way, I think that is simply going slightly further into the cognitive realm than normal and potentially further in than a soulcaster is capable of taking you. And that is a completely unfounded theory, what of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneKEA Posted February 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 I got an answer to my question! I would say no. The Cognitive Realm does exist there, but Shadesmar is a special case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 I got an answer to my question! What I find interesting about this is the implication that there is more to the Cognitive Realm than just Shadesmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Based off the theory of relatively short distances between planets and how the cognitive aspect defines a world. Would that mean that planets with out life would be impossible to reach via the cognitive realm. Or maybe even planets with out intelligent life. also would that mean the more heavily populated the planet is would that make the cognitive realm more stable. Edit: Because of the split in the population of Scadrial would there cognitive aspects be separate. Two parts possibly far away in Shadesmare terms. Edited February 20, 2013 by Tarontos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 We're currently discussing this in some depth in the thread Kea posted about the signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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