Batman vs Superman Trailer

[Kobold King]

So, we finally got our first look at Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice. 

 

Did you watch the trailer yet? Go watch that and come back here and post your thoughts on it.

 

For my part... I like that they're poised to explore Superman's status as the most powerful man in the world. The shot where his statue is suddenly illuminated with the phrase "FALSE GOD" scrawled across his chest was very well-done, in my opinion.

 

Batfleck is kind of... meh. His CGI could be better, and his voice sounds like a robot. I'll withhold full judgement until I see the movie, though.

 

And finally, the last two lines of the trailer made me think of Steelheart so much I half think that Snyder's been reading Sanderson:

 

"Can you bleed? You will."

Edited April 19, 2015 by Kobold King

[Edgedancer]

So, we finally got our first look at Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice. 

 

Did you watch the trailer yet? Go watch that and come back here and post your thoughts on it.

 

For my part... I like that they're poised to explore Superman's status as the most powerful man in the world. The shot where his statue is suddenly illuminated with the phrase "FALSE GOD" scrawled across his chest was very well-done, in my opinion.

 

Batfleck is kind of... meh. His CGI could be better, and his voice sounds like a robot. I'll withhold full judgement until I see the movie, though.

 

And finally, the last two lines of the trailer made me think of Steelheart so much I half think that Snyder's been reading Sanderson:

 

"Can you bleed? You will."

Personally I got Injustice: God amongst us flashbacks, with the dark tone and soldiers bowing before Superman. Which kinda worries me, there is a reason the bad Superman in that game was from an alternative universe. Futhermore this also has to set up the film universe for the other DC movies and the Dark Knight returns (don't get me wrong, it's a good story) or at least something inspiered by it isn't exactly the best starting point for the justice league.

What I hope is that the teaser is a bit of a fake out. Superman not going dictator, Lex Luthor rallying the masses against him ect. Otherwise... well there has not yet been any kryptonite in these movies, so a confrontation with both of them standing right in front of each other can only end with Batman getting stomped, especially with a semi-evil Superman.

 

Concerning Batman... well I don't think I can be quite neutral on that point. I do like Batman but there''s a lot of fanboyism going on around him, even more when he gets pitched against other superheroes and worst of all against Superman. I'm really just worried that this ends up in the same direction.

What I noticed is that the Batcave already looked very much like a thing meaning Batman probably already worked before confronting Superman or built all his stuff just to fight Superman. The first doesn't quite mach with the "God amongst us" new feed that seems to be going on and the latter seems like it would harden the edges even more. (Let me tell you, if it turns out Batman comes back from retirement I'm gonna groan.)

 

I made that connection as well but I doubt that it's what they were going for. Otherise they just officially turned Suprman into Steelheart and doomed the world. Then again they are going for that dreary dark tone so. There is a difference between realistic deconstruction and completely joyless.

 

Bottom line. I'm torn between worried and thinking that this was mostly a fake out hidding the actual plot of the movie.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

So, we finally got our first look at Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice. 

 

Did you watch the trailer yet? Go watch that and come back here and post your thoughts on it.

 

For my part... I like that they're poised to explore Superman's status as the most powerful man in the world. The shot where his statue is suddenly illuminated with the phrase "FALSE GOD" scrawled across his chest was very well-done, in my opinion.

 

Batfleck is kind of... meh. His CGI could be better, and his voice sounds like a robot. I'll withhold full judgement until I see the movie, though.

 

And finally, the last two lines of the trailer made me think of Steelheart so much I half think that Snyder's been reading Sanderson:

 

"Can you bleed? You will."

Personally I got Injustice: God amongst us flashbacks, with the dark tone and soldiers bowing before Superman. Which kinda worries me, there is a reason the bad Superman in that game was from an alternative universe. Futhermore this also has to set up the film universe for the other DC movies and the Dark Knight returns (don't get me wrong, it's a good story) or at least something inspiered by it isn't exactly the best starting point for the justice league.

What I hope is that the teaser is a bit of a fake out. Superman not going dictator, Lex Luthor rallying the masses against him ect. Otherwise... well there has not yet been any kryptonite in these movies, so a confrontation with both of them standing right in front of each other can only end with Batman getting stomped, especially with a semi-evil Superman.

 

Concerning Batman... well I don't think I can be quite neutral on that point. I do like Batman but there''s a lot of fanboyism going on around him, even more when he gets pitched against other superheroes and worst of all against Superman. I'm really just worried that this ends up in the same direction.

What I noticed is that the Batcave already looked very much like a thing meaning Batman probably already worked before confronting Superman or built all his stuff just to fight Superman. The first doesn't quite mach with the "God amongst us" new feed that seems to be going on and the latter seems like it would harden the edges even more. (Let me tell you, if it turns out Batman comes back from retirement I'm gonna groan.)

 

I made that connection as well but I doubt that it's what they were going for. Otherise they just officially turned Suprman into Steelheart and doomed the world. Then again they are going for that dreary dark tone so. There is a difference between realistic deconstruction and completely joyless.

 

Bottom line. I'm torn between worried and thinking that this was mostly a fake out hidding the actual plot of the movie.

 

Gut reaction: Seriously, Snyder? Look, I love Steelheart, but if you want to make Superman evil, just sign on to direct Steelheart.

 

Like Edge, I'm torn between worrying that we're going to get a Steelheart with the serial numbers filed off, and thinking they're covering up the actual plot with some clever editing. Because they could do that easily: The soldiers bowing before Superman could be something they do despite his protests. The statue could be from a group of vandals who see a Superman-centric cult forming and wish to stop it. Batman could be growling at Lex Luthor for all we know. (Though we know Luthor can bleed, so he might be growling at someone else. Zod, magically healed from having his neck broken, perhaps? ) 

 

On the other hand, this is the director who expressed surprise (and a bit of dismay) that "everyone clings to the Christopher Reeve version of Superman," and who seemed to go out of his way to tarnish and toss out that image in his debut with the character. This seems, to me, a director who glories in darkness for the sake of darkness, so I'm not hopeful about the new movie. 

 

However, I do agree that the shot illuminating the statue's vandalism was well done, and the soldiers bowing before him was chilling. I just wish those shots were from a teaser trailer for Steelheart instead of a new movie for the most hopeful superhero in the world.

[Mailliw73]

I agree. Superman should be the hero of the people, not an enemy. He's their shining beacon, not a conquering shadow. That's what I worried will happen. Man of Steel has already begun a darker superman. While I don't mind dark superhero movies, I feel like that's what every movie/show is trying to convey now. While yes, some work like that and should be dark, ones like Superman shouldn't be. That isn't who Superman is. I, for one, do like the idea of a grizzled, veteran, retired Batman. I think that'll be interesting to see.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

 

Superman isn't evil in the movie. Why are you saying that he is? If it's because he killed Zod ( ?? ), he killed him because he had no choice. The reason that Batman is about to throw down with him is because 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.' 

Think about it from Batman's point of view this being has arrived that is more or less invincible. This being has also demonstrated that he is willing to kill.

Not sure but I'm pretty sure that kryptonite is not on earth and it has to be manufactured, which is gonna be weird.

 

I liked the trailer personally and am interested in how Batman i going to fight him with no readily available weaknesses for him to exploit.

 

Edited April 19, 2015 by SmurfAquamarineBodies

[Kobold King]

 

Superman isn't evil in the movie. Why are you saying that he is? If it's because he killed Zod ( ?? ), he killed him because he had no choice. The reason that Batman is about to throw down with him is because 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.' 

Not sure but I'm pretty sure that kryptonite is not on earth and it has to be manufactured, which is gonna be weird.

 

I liked the trailer personally and am interested in how Batman i going to fight him with no readily available weaknesses for him to exploit.

 

 

The tone of the trailer, to me at least, put Superman in a very grim light, mostly in the shot that shows him striding down a hall with soldiers bowing to him. Assuming that he doesn't immediately smile at those soldiers and assure them that he doesn't want their deference, then it sets a disturbing precedent for the man of steel to accept such subservience from humans. It puts him on a fine line between "savior of humanity" and "planetary dictatorship waiting to happen."

 

I also liked the trailer, and I'm excited to see the movie despite my reservations about it. Maybe this is the testosterone speaking, but the idea of an epic Batman/Superman fight with no kryptonite in sight really gets my blood pumping.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

 

Superman isn't evil in the movie. Why are you saying that he is? If it's because he killed Zod ( ?? ), he killed him because he had no choice. The reason that Batman is about to throw down with him is because 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.' 

Think about it from Batman's point of view this being has arrived that is more or less invincible. This being has also demonstrated that he is willing to kill.

Not sure but I'm pretty sure that kryptonite is not on earth and it has to be manufactured, which is gonna be weird.

 

I liked the trailer personally and am interested in how Batman i going to fight him with no readily available weaknesses for him to exploit.

 

 

Perhaps evil is a strong term, but from the way the trailer is set up, it looks like Snyder is trying to make Superman at least appear more sinister than usual. A statue of Superman emblazoned with FALSE GOD, a group of soldiers bowing to him—these are things that directors from the Christopher Reeve era would have balked at, yet Snyder seems to be portraying them as the natural consequence of a powerful alien being. 

 

And honestly? I get it. And on one level, I like it. Part of what I loved about the Reckoners books was how Sanderson showed the terrifying consequences of a being as powerful as Superman who, unlike Superman, does see himself as a god and does​ want to rule. And like Kobold said earlier, I like the idea of examining the role of Superman in society. 

 

What I don't like is the way that most movies that decide to examine Superman's role almost always cast him in a grim and sinister light. Sure, there would be fallout from a being like Superman existing in our world, but why not examine the way he attempts to keep others from seeing him as a god and how others respond to that? I'd kill for a movie scene where Superman, desperate to be seen as a renegade do-gooder and not a benevolent deity, straps on an apron and volunteers in a soup kitchen before purposely tripping over his own feet on the way out. It is possible to examine the line between power and corruption in a hopeful way, but it looks to me like Snyder just wants to give us the same old grim powerful-man-becomes-avenging-deity stuff we've seen before.

[spencer12347]

I'm personally more excited for Civil War. I really didn't like Man of Steel. 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

I'm personally more excited for Civil War. I really didn't like Man of Steel. 

 

YES YES YES. I thought the comics series was a bit uneven, but there were some awesome stories in there, and Marvel Studios has done an awesome job so far of paring down the source material to the most important stuff. 

[king of nowhere]

Gut reaction: Seriously, Snyder? Look, I love Steelheart, but if you want to make Superman evil, just sign on to direct Steelheart.

 

But if he had, he couldn't have added batman in it.

 

I really don't like how the movie industry works. Some movie has success, and suddenly everyone is making movies of that kind. those years, superheroes are in fashion, and a dark tone is in fashion, so they make a lot of movies about superheroes revisited in a darker light.

Also, I don't like how plot is bent in the name of coolness. In many action movies and books I get the feeling that the story is just an excuse to introduce the fight or other "cool" scenes. I hate coolness for the sake of it, and I am very strict on it - on the other hand, because of that I like justified cool even more. Anyway I am fairly sure that, no matter what plot they picked, the whole movie concept started with "superheroes are selling well, so we should make another movie about them. And we already did everything we could with supervillains opposing them. What about we put some superheroes against each other? That would make for a cool fighting scene. Ok, we'll make superman fight against batman. Now we only need  to figure out a plot for it". I may be wrong, but mass entertainment is one of the few things that can bring out my cinic side.

[KamorianKandra]

Personally, I thought it was awesome.

I find it a realistic reaction for many people to fear him for his power, and many people to worship him because of his power. I'm most interested to see how he deals with the worship. I also think that before he can be a beacon of hope for the people of Metropolis, he has to earn the people's trust, and I don't think he has done this yet.

I also thought Batman looked cool, and I was relieved that they dropped the DKT growly voice.

So yeah, I think the trailer was awesome.

Edited April 20, 2015 by KamorianKandra13

[Quiver]

Minor thoughts related to Man of Steel that I've said before:

 

 

 Anyway. One of the key tenets of a lot of modern superheroes is that they don't kill; ever. They find another way, a different way, a better way. Part of that is because they need to keep characters available for future stories, of course- it's why the Punisher doesn't have a regular rogues gallery- but it's also because of mroality; because killing is bad.

I always find it sort of interesting how heroes react to it though. Batman has his rules; no killing, and no guns. He once admitted that he thinks about murdering the Joker all the time (see the Red Hood film/storyline), but he never does it because it would never stop at just one killing. He finds it too easy to cross that line, so he has rules, standards he holds himself to to make sure he never does.



Superman, on the other hand? Just doesn't kill. He doesn't have a rule telling him it's not what he does, it's just... something he doesn't do. He doesn't kill people, ever. Batman has a mental rule to remind himself of that, but Supes just has the whole thing internalised to the point that, if you told him superheroes don't kill people, his response would be "Well, duh."



Which is why I kind of like the killing of Zod. Murder is treated by readers, and cinema viewers, as a casual thing; at the end of the movie, whoever they are fighting gets blown up, or shot, or whatever, and the hero goes on with their lives. Man of Steel's ending had the potential to be awesome; Superman has no choice. Zod is going to kill the planet if he doesn't stop him... and, frankly, how can Superman stop him? 

Zod is threatening families, so Superman kills him. He snaps his neck.



And it breaks him.



Zod is a horrible person, but killing anyone- even someone who, arguably, deserves it- is so wrong, so traumatic, that he breaks down. He cries, and screams. I kind of was hoping for everyone to start cheering him, while he has a breakdown about how terrible it is. He felt it- and it's obvious he didn't like it. It whos that killing is wrong.



The problem is that the moment is covered up by him going back to happy, quippy Superman with the government and grinning Clark Kent. I'm not saying h has to brood over it... but it was amoment that should define him. He must never kill again- and the ending kind of ruined the power of that for me.

 

 

The thing is...

 

...The thing is, I kind of like some stuff from the Snyderverse. People fearing (or even worshipping) an alien demi-god with the ability to tear a planet in half? The imagery of soldiers kneeling before Zod Superman? Superman being arrested, and having to explain his position to others, or explain why he does what he does?

 

That is all interesting material, and stuff which can't happen in the comics, because the floating timeline of the comics means Superman is, by and large, already an established character, and those conflicts have already been resolved in his past. The best you can do is either rehash his origin story (again), or establish it as a rouge sect, or military go awry, or something- which doesn't have the same feeling. Superman (in the comics) is the greatest hero who ever lived. The kind of imagery doesn't work for someone who has spent decade, in-universe, convincing everyone he is on their side.

 

(Incidentally, thats why even though I like the current Superman, I prefer the Old 52 take on the character. He had history, weight and experience behind him).

 

In that case, having this young hero face those trials is actually a great idea. However... 

 

Superman is also someone who is supposed to bring hope to people. The best scenes in Man of Steel were the ones where he was doing that. I love the sequance in the prison, because it shows that Cavil gets Superman. He doesn't struggle or resist; he wants people to be safe and happy. When he breaks chains, it isn't a struggle, it's casual and easy. When he smiles and speaks to Lois and the others, it's obvious that he wants to be a good guy. He's a man who really could inspire hope in people.

 

(For the record, my favorite part of Man of Steel is a small moment during the Battle of Smallville. After he rescues the pilot from the helicopter and sets him down, there is a small moment between him and Supes, where it looks like Superman takes a minute out of fighting the alien menace to ask him if he's okay. And that sounds goofy, but it is so Superman- he cares about people, and wants to make sure that their okay. It was wonderful.)

 

But the rest of the film undermined him so much, that it's hard to see him as the beacon of hope he's supposed to be. The Snyderverse is intent on being seen as dark, gritty and realistic, and it did that by taking the brightest character in comics and tearing him down- and BvS kind of shows some of the consequences of that.

 

Superman and Batman are night and day - literally. Superman is about bright colors, about being public and open, about optimism, hope and trusting that, when the choice between good and evil is presented, that people will choose good. That's the point of Superman- it's why I think that line from the Reeves film has so much punch behind it:

 

  They can be a great people, Kal-El; they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you... my only son.

 

 

And I'm not saying that Batman doesn't have those qualities- he has to have some hope that his methods will make thigns better, or else he's a mad man. But by and large, Bats is played as the opposite of Superman, wearing a dark costume, about suspicion and paranoia.

 

But... there is no color in this world. Hell, after watching Man of Stel, I'm not even convinced there is any joy. I think Superman is the only character to smile in that film; the rest of the cast is so dour, so unhappy. Superman is meant to inspire people- but he doesn't. No one in the movie seems inspired or moved by Superman's actions. Hamilton detonating the bomb and sacraficing himself wasn't the result of him looking at Superman -a stranger from a strange world- turning his back on his people ad choosing earth and thinking "That is how it should be"; it was a generic action scene, with the kind of self-sacrafice we expect from action scenes.

 

So, since you've taken undermined the positives Superman can do -since this is a world where the answer to "What would Superman Do" is legitimately "Destroy Metropolis - Snyder has to play up the worship element of the mythos. 

 

I think the thing about this trailer is... like others have said, it almost presents Superman as the bad guy. It frames him in the sun, out of our reach; it shows statues raised in his name, soldiers kneeling before him as if he were freakin' Zod. If we got multiple trailers for each "side", I think this would be alleviated; if this was a "Batman" trailer, to drum up support for his position, and next week we got a "Superman" one that showed Batman as the villain, I think that could work. It's a position I hope they take with Civil War, really, repeating those old "I'm with X" memes from back then.

 

But as it is, the trailer is so itnent on justifying why Batman feels this way, that it makes Superman look bad. And ever since I heard they were using "The Dark Knight Returns" as source material, I was afraid that that was going to happen, because that story is not one of Supes best outings. Because the ideologies and meanings behind them have been so diluted- because this is a world which doesn't seem hopeful, because Superman, like Bats, wears an almost grey body suit... this film loses some of it's appeal, I think.

 

..Of course, I could be wrong. It might be awesome; I sure hope so. But I'm not as hyped as I want to be.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Quiver

[king of nowhere]

Personally, I thought it was awesome.

I find it a realistic reaction for many people to fear him for his power, and many people to worship him because of his power. I'm most interested to see how he deals with the worship. I also think that before he can be a beacon of hope for the people of Metropolis, he has to earn the people's trust, and I don't think he has done this yet.

I also thought Batman looked cool, and I was relieved that they dropped the DKT growly voice.

So yeah, I think the trailer was awesome.

 

 

The thing is...

 

...The thing is, I kind of like some stuff from the Snyderverse. People fearing (or even worshipping) an alien demi-god with the ability to tear a planet in half? The imagery of soldiers kneeling before Zod Superman? Superman being arrested, and having to explain his position to others, or explain why he does what he does?

 

That is all interesting material, and stuff which can't happen in the comics, because the floating timeline of the comics means Superman is, by and large, already an established character, and those conflicts have already been resolved in his past. The best you can do is either rehash his origin story (again), or establish it as a rouge sect, or military go awry, or something- which doesn't have the same feeling. Superman (in the comics) is the greatest hero who ever lived. The kind of imagery doesn't work for someone who has spent decade, in-universe, convincing everyone he is on their side.

 

(Incidentally, thats why even though I like the current Superman, I prefer the Old 52 take on the character. He had history, weight and experience behind him).

 

In that case, having this young hero face those trials is actually a great idea. However... 

 

Yeah. there's plenty of potential for telling interesting stories here. Which is the reason I'm quite bitter in expecting they will squander that potential to add some more special effects. There were a few superheroes movies worth seeing, but most of them started with good promise and then went on poorly, never really exploring the potential.

 

However, one thing I'm finding quite interesting is how the superheroes relate to our own world. When they were first created, those characters developed superpowers in some way, then they decided to use them for good, the people trusted them. little explanation was generally given, most of the times the backstories were only created later. The readers did not expect anything else.

Now, we live in a much lighter world than then. The cold was is over (ok, in the last year it seems like it may restart, but I don't think it is realistic now to have the world divided in two blocks again), civil rights vastly improved in the west, internet granted unprecedented freedom of press, the environmental laws are starting to show some result. And yet as people we are much more pessimistic.

If someone develops superpowers, we expect him to abuse of them. If he's not a villain to start with, he will gradually become one at the first slip. Once, those comic books handwaved the backstory of the protagonist, while they showed in detail how the antagonist became evil. Now it is the opposite, and the hero being good need justification.regardless of whether the voices speaking against superman in the trailer were real or only a point of view, I am sure that if he existed in the real world the very same things would be said about him, regardless of how he actually behaved.

It is true that the stories we tell are mirrors of ourselves.

 

(notice that I'm not advocating one world view over another: if today's take seems overly dark and pessimistic without particular reasons, the old view was definitely naive; as much as he was a hero, I don't know how safe I'd rest if I knew there was a guy who could do whatever he pleased and was only stoped by his conscience)

[Quiver]

(notice that I'm not advocating one world view over another: if today's take seems overly dark and pessimistic without particular reasons, the old view was definitely naive; as much as he was a hero, I don't know how safe I'd rest if I knew there was a guy who could do whatever he pleased and was only stoped by his conscience)

 

That is something that makes  alot of sense- and I think makes even more sense (and is even more interesting) if you think of Superman's origins. 

It's part of why he finds himself at odds with the government or Lex Luther; they cannot conceive that a guy with godly powers is using them to help people because it's the right thing to do. Superman's philosophy is very naive, but it's also incredibly powerful, because it all boils down to "I just want to help people".  

 

Again, comics have kind of built enough history around him that people sort of accept that's the case (Lex excepting, of course)... and it does set up something itneresting for this movie. The idea that "I want to help people" is as alien a thought to everyone as Superman himself.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

This seemed relevant.  

[Kobold King]

This seemed relevant. 

 

Marvel's better than DC. There, I said it.

[Edgedancer]

Marvel's better than DC. There, I said it.

Their current movies are at the very least. Joy and dead people going hand in hand.

[the winter system]

Haven't seen any of the other movies, but I like how I get how "Steelheart"y the whole thing is.

[Mailliw73]

And now there's two! 2nd trailer:

[ThirdGen]

So Batman's basically like,

 

"Mankind ill needs a savior such as you."

 

[phantasmagorically]

Perhaps evil is a strong term, but from the way the trailer is set up, it looks like Snyder is trying to make Superman at least appear more sinister than usual. A statue of Superman emblazoned with FALSE GOD, a group of soldiers bowing to him—these are things that directors from the Christopher Reeve era would have balked at, yet Snyder seems to be portraying them as the natural consequence of a powerful alien being. 

 

And honestly? I get it. And on one level, I like it. Part of what I loved about the Reckoners books was how Sanderson showed the terrifying consequences of a being as powerful as Superman who, unlike Superman, does see himself as a god and does​ want to rule. And like Kobold said earlier, I like the idea of examining the role of Superman in society. 

 

What I don't like is the way that most movies that decide to examine Superman's role almost always cast him in a grim and sinister light. Sure, there would be fallout from a being like Superman existing in our world, but why not examine the way he attempts to keep others from seeing him as a god and how others respond to that? I'd kill for a movie scene where Superman, desperate to be seen as a renegade do-gooder and not a benevolent deity, straps on an apron and volunteers in a soup kitchen before purposely tripping over his own feet on the way out. It is possible to examine the line between power and corruption in a hopeful way, but it looks to me like Snyder just wants to give us the same old grim powerful-man-becomes-avenging-deity stuff we've seen before.

I agree with this. The way I saw it was that people started making him into a God and things spiraled down from there.

Edited July 17, 2015 by phantasmagorically