2012 Oct 22 - cjhuitt - Blue Crystals D2 Chapter 4

[cjhuitt]

This is to discuss (draft 2 of) chapter 4 of Blue Crystals.

In chapter 1, we met Jorah as he helps his group of small-time thieves with a robbery. In chapter 2, he wanders into a testing ground and loses the loot he was carrying from the robbery when he is attacked by monsters. In chapter 3, Alberic learns of the theft of valuables from Lord Dominik, and he is tasked with recovering them as soon as possible.

I'm looking for any feedback, but specifically would like opinions on the following:

- The characterization of Molly

- The setup of conflicts

- The worldbuilding

I'm considering swapping the position of this and the last chapter, but am undecided. I wouldn't mind feedback on that either.

Edited October 22, 2012 by cjhuitt

[Rayonn]

First, I think I sympathize much more with Jorah after this chapter, having seen him do exactly the thing Dexter predicted, but knowing that there's an innocent explanation. I also like the way you set up the conflict between Dexter and Jorah--Dexter might be paranoid, but he sincerely thinks Jorah's a threat to people he cares about. He's not merely out to get him because the plot calls for conflict. (The stock accuser/bully who opposes the protagonist for no obvious reason is one YA trope that really make me tired).

As for Molly's characterization, at this point I like her, but she doesn't interest me as much as the Dexter-Jorah-Kat dynamic (Did I miss something about Dexter's relationship to Kat? He's awfully protective of her, and I keep wondering why). I think it's Molly's lack of an obvious flaw. She's competent (does complicated exercises, Dexter respects her) and wise (doesn't jump to conclusions about Jorah), and has an intriguing background, but at this point I wouldn't particularly care if she died...

I think I like this chapter better after the last one. The focus on the money pouch at the end works better as dramatic irony-the reader knows what's inside it already-than suspense. Without that knowledge I would feel like the author was taunting me.

[Eri]

First: hi. I'm not new on the forum, but I am new on the group. I've subscribed just to read and comment, since I don't feel fluent enough in English to write stories (not my home language).

It's hard to say anything without knowing previous chapters.

The names are very 'normal', I'm not sure if it is a typical fantasy setting, or some kind of urbn fantasy?

Dexter, for some reason doesn't seem trustworthy to me. I like him as a character, but wouldn't be suprised if he was a traitor or hiding something big. Also, I wonder how did he know so well what Jorah did? I hope there is an explanation for that.

I do not like Molly as a character, I don't feel her. She does things, has a hobby, has/had a father... but I don't see her personality, I dont feel for her. But it may be just the lack of context, of previous chapters.

[Mandamon]

I have to agree with the others about Molly. She's better than she was before, and the tie-in with the cat and exercises are better this time around for not taking an entire chapter, but she's still just...dull. I find myself reading through her part faster to get to the others. Maybe this is because all the others have some obvious flaw and she doesn't?

Maybe it's that she's doing ordinary things competently, rather than extraordinary things competently (you describe the exercises as hard, but there's no real descriptions to indicate this is so) or ordinary things incompetently.

I remember she was described as very short the first time around. Is that still in the story? Keeping it in, along with some reason for it, might give her some more interest. For example. Tyrion (Game of Thrones) is a dwarf and a pain in the chull, but you love him because he's looked down on by everyone and still wins. If he was regular size and still a pain, he's be much less loveable.

I do like Dexter more this time around, though the relationship with Kat is unclear, especially since Molly is forbidding relationships. I do like the ending of the chapter better--it seems very natural.

The slang/worldbuilding (spacewaste, and I think another one in a previous chapter) is still a little confusing. I get the idea people have absorbed foreign words, but otherwise this is a low-tech society?

[cjhuitt]

Thank you all for the feedback.

On Molly:

As for Molly's characterization, at this point I like her, but she doesn't interest me as much as the Dexter-Jorah-Kat dynamic [...] I think it's Molly's lack of an obvious flaw. She's competent (does complicated exercises, Dexter respects her) and wise (doesn't jump to conclusions about Jorah), and has an intriguing background, but at this point I wouldn't particularly care if she died...

I do not like Molly as a character, I don't feel her. She does things, has a hobby, has/had a father... but I don't see her personality, I dont feel for her.

I have to agree with the others about Molly. She's better than she was before, and the tie-in with the cat and exercises are better this time around for not taking an entire chapter, but she's still just...dull. I find myself reading through her part faster to get to the others. Maybe this is because all the others have some obvious flaw and she doesn't?

Maybe it's that she's doing ordinary things competently, rather than extraordinary things competently (you describe the exercises as hard, but there's no real descriptions to indicate this is so) or ordinary things incompetently.

These fascinate me, and I think I can see some of the problem... it will give me something more to work on fixing in the next revision, I suppose. I think part of it is that I took one aspect of her personality that was interesting, and transferred it to Dexter. That part, at least, seems to be working well, but I think I forgot to then give Molly something to be driving her again. There are conflicts, goals, and exaggerations to be had in her background, but I didn't think to pull any more out and make them more obvious.

I remember she [Molly] was described as very short the first time around. Is that still in the story? Keeping it in, along with some reason for it, might give her some more interest.

Yes, she is still short but I made it more subtle this time, and her a touch less short. She's still basically a pixie, however, especially compared to Dexter, or even Lance.

On Dexter:

I also like the way you set up the conflict between Dexter and Jorah--Dexter might be paranoid, but he sincerely thinks Jorah's a threat to people he cares about. He's not merely out to get him because the plot calls for conflict. (The stock accuser/bully who opposes the protagonist for no obvious reason is one YA trope that really make me tired).

[...] the Dexter-Jorah-Kat dynamic (Did I miss something about Dexter's relationship to Kat? He's awfully protective of her, and I keep wondering why).

Dexter, for some reason doesn't seem trustworthy to me. I like him as a character, but wouldn't be suprised if he was a traitor or hiding something big. Also, I wonder how did he know so well what Jorah did? I hope there is an explanation for that.

I do like Dexter more this time around, though the relationship with Kat is unclear, especially since Molly is forbidding relationships.

All this makes me (mostly) happy, since as I mentioned above, I was trying to draw Dexter's character out more. It appears I'll have to do more with the Dexter/Kat thing, but basically (and I'm not giving anything important away here) he thinks there is more to it than she does, or at least a strong potential for more.

On Jorah:

First, I think I sympathize much more with Jorah after this chapter, having seen him do exactly the thing Dexter predicted, but knowing that there's an innocent explanation. I also like the way you set up the conflict between Dexter and Jorah [...]

I still think I need to do more in an earlier chapter, but this is good also, since that was one of the big changes I had planned in this version. It does also make the conflict seem more believable to me as well. Thanks for helping confirm my thoughts on this (though I may suffer from confirmation bias as well).

On the world building:

The names are very 'normal', I'm not sure if it is a typical fantasy setting, or some kind of urbn fantasy?

The slang/worldbuilding (spacewaste, and I think another one in a previous chapter) is still a little confusing. I get the idea people have absorbed foreign words, but otherwise this is a low-tech society?

...and I still have some worldbuilding to do. On the names, yes, they are purposefully (mostly) common ones that we would recognize now. In fact, I think so far I've taken all of them from one baby name dictionary or another, though it's possible I'm mistaken for one or two. Not all of them are English names, though.

Other:

I think I like this chapter better after the last one. The focus on the money pouch at the end works better as dramatic irony-the reader knows what's inside it already-than suspense. Without that knowledge I would feel like the author was taunting me.

I've come around to agreement on this as well. At least partly because it leads so nicely into the next chapter, and partly because it works better as you state, with the reader having more knowledge to anticipate and judge the character's reactions.

First: hi. I'm not new on the forum, but I am new on the group. I've subscribed just to read and comment, since I don't feel fluent enough in English to write stories (not my home language).

Hi! I'm pretty sure we have some non-native speakers writing here, but if you want to practice your English while helping out aspiring writers, I'm certainly not going to stop you. From your brief bit posted here and in Trizee's topic, I wouldn't have known you as a non-native speaker, though I would have guessed either a younger (mid/late teens) person, or one in a hurry, due to a instances of unusual sentence construction. Still, rest assured I had no problem understanding you.

Again, thanks to everyone (and if you're reading this later, you can still feel free to chime in).