Calamity Excerpt Discussion

[natc]

Well Firefight isn't the main villain of Firefight either. Sure, she gets spotlight, but David also totally steals the show until she reincarnated.

Meanwhile Steelheart was indeed the main villain of his book, but his only scenes are the bank flashback and the actual showdown. . . where he is mostly off screen until Nightwielder died, Firefight leaves, and Prof goes down. At which point he just pulls a trigger and kills himself.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Did Prof know where the other Lorists were? Or did only Tia know?

[Shardbound]

Tia tells David in Firefight that if he wants to become a Lorist he'll have to give up fieldwork. Since Prof was in the field I'm inferring that he didn't have direct contact or knowledge of the Lorists (,although he may be able to track them down in other ways).

[SorenKnight]

Isn't the guass gun based of off Rick O'Shea, the Irish Epic that Kobold King mentioned? That would imply that there is trade across the Atlantic, and if Knighthawk is the only source of Epic derived weapons, then they must have agents across the ocean collecting tissue samples for weapons. Which is pretty terrifying when you think about it.

[king of nowhere]

Isn't the guass gun based of off Rick O'Shea, the Irish Epic that Kobold King mentioned? That would imply that there is trade across the Atlantic, and if Knighthawk is the only source of Epic derived weapons, then they must have agents across the ocean collecting tissue samples for weapons. Which is pretty terrifying when you think about it.

So, the world seemmed in a pretty soorry shape  when they traveled between cities, but it appears someone has still access to transoceanic transport. Interesting.  Maybe the former usa had more epics than other places, so they collapsed worse? Maybe civilization has survived in a significant number of places? because Crossing the oceans requires a wide net of support. you need plenty of oil, which implies someone is still running the oil rigs. even if you had a solar-powered electric boat, you would need spare parts over 13 years. It's quite difficult to figure out exactly how broken down that world is.

[SorenKnight]

@king of nowhere I doubt that oceanic travel is common. The evidence of Rick O'Shea only implies that the Knighthawk Foundry can do it, and with all the technology they have I don't doubt they can maintain a level of infrastructure beyond anyone else. And if it is Knighthawk then they might use an Epic-derived propulsion system, like the spyril on a bigger scale.

[king of nowhere]

But my point is that you cannot be a highly advanced technological organization in a vacuum. To have present-day technology, you don't need just an advanced factory. You need hundreds of advanced factories and dozens of rare resources. For example, just to have computers they need to have a microprocessor factory, which among things needs a level of clean air much greater than that of a surgical room; so you need special filters and technology for cleaning the air, and your personnel must wear special protective clothing, all of which are high technology. You need ultrapure silicon, which requires very special processing and is done in very few places in the world because few people havee the know-how to make them. And that also requires special machinery, which will wear out. And to make that you will need special metallurgical alloys, which require special machinery.

So, if they knighthawk foundry is the only high-tech organization left, one day someone will run out of ion-exchange resins, without which you can't separate the rare earths into single elements, and some of those elements are needed to make touch screens, and the foundry won't be able to make mobile phones anymore.

And 13 years is a fairly long time; most advanced stuff doesn't last that long.

 

So, my argument is that if the knighthawk foundry can make mobiles, there must be someone in the world mining rare earths, someone making ion exchange resins for purifying rare earths, someone with complex chemical factories to make the aforementioned resins, someone digging oil because that's where we get most of our organic chemicals, someone producing all kinds of industrial machinery needed for the aforementioned productions, and someone maintaining a wide transportation network. It means there are plenty of organizations with access to high technology and the world is in a better shape than it looks like from what was apparent in the trip.

 

It''s like seeing an animal and figuring that it must eat something, which must eat something else,  and it must also mate with something, and so if you see one single animal you can be sure there must be a whole ecosystem somewhere.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Or there's a Matter transformer Epic making all that.

[Voidus]

Or there's a Matter transformer Epic making all that.

Yeah was going to say, superpowers go a long way to minimizing the necessary infrastructure. 

[king of nowhere]

right, i forgot to mention that part: either there is all the infrastructure that i said, or they have epic powers for doing pretty much everything. which is still possible,  i suppose, but it would require hundreds of powers very carefully oriented towards technology. I was going to dismiss that as impossible, because there would be too many too specific powers involved, but on the other hand, they had 13 years to accumulate them.

maybe the right answer is a mix. there is still enough civilization clinging in some  places, and they have epic powers for what is not covered. maybe they got one epic power that fixes machinery, that would go a long way on making them independent rom spare parts.

[Voidus]

Not sure about hundreds of powers or very specific powers, transmutation can solve most of the problems by itself.

[SorenKnight]

Given the Epic's characteristic arrogance and feelings of superiority I doubt that one would consent to sitting around as a glorified factory. Considering that we already know that Steelheart ran factories and exported goods outside of Newcago I find the industry theory more likely.

[Kobold King]

Given the Epic's characteristic arrogance and feelings of superiority I doubt that one would consent to sitting around as a glorified factory. Considering that we already know that Steelheart ran factories and exported goods outside of Newcago I find the industry theory more likely.

 

We know from Conflux that a useful Epic doesn't need to give consent, though.

[Voidus]

We know from Conflux that a useful Epic doesn't need to give consent, though.

And we know from Steelheart providing enough scrap steel for the entire planet in a fit of rage that they don't need to be deliberately trying to be helpful.

Plus for some Epics with less combative powers they could use the trade to increase their status.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Voidus

[Blackhoof]

Given the Epic's characteristic arrogance and feelings of superiority I doubt that one would consent to sitting around as a glorified factory. Considering that we already know that Steelheart ran factories and exported goods outside of Newcago I find the industry theory more likely.

 

being the only supplier of advanced weaponry is its own type of control, though. He/she wouldn't "rule" in the traditional sense, but they do have a tonne of power. You get blacklisted by Knighthawk, you lose your mobiles, your best weapons, any tanks/copters/mechs you might have. Knighthawk has more power over the Fractured States than any single other Epic, I'd say.

[StormingTexan]

Brandon's newsletter got stuck in my stupid spam folder so I just now read the teaser. Man what a teaser too all it left were a bunch of questions as have been mentioned in the thread. I'm not too surprised Tia is laying low. She would have had to be pretty close to the action to run ops since they were only using radios. I am pretty surprised Megan was on the team though Cody and Abraham have just as much reason as Mizzy I'd think to not want her on the team.

Knighthawk being an epic is an interesting theory makes a lot of sense though. Can't wait to see what happens!

Edit: seems like an awful lot of stuff happened between Firefight and Calamity. Here's wishful thinking we will get a 2.5 to fill in some gaps before Calamity

Edited April 24, 2015 by StormingTexan

[Sarcasm]

For some strange reason, I have a feeling that Knighthawk will actually turn out to be David's mother. I have no evidence to support this, it's just a thought, so feel free to critique.

[Kobold King]

For some strange reason, I have a feeling that Knighthawk will actually turn out to be David's mother. I have no evidence to support this, it's just a thought, so feel free to critique.

 

That twist would have to be handled... delicately, to say the least. Frankly I'm inclined to dislike any conjectured twist that would make David more important than some random guy who decided to rise up against the Epics, but that's just me.

[XenosHg]

As far as I can tell, fear is not always connected to trauma of some kind, it might just be fear. Phobia. Irrational, maybe. Claustrophobia - the fear of closed spaces. Agoraphobia - the fear of large open spaces. There must also exist a fear of large bodies of water.

 

If a person is afraid of spiders, or slimes, or snakesit doesn't mean he was bitten by one - he just might be afraid. Or severely grossed, or feel something subconsciously unnatural about it.

 

Also, it's mentioned that David's Epic powers were supposed to be thematically connected to water - and to the Spyril. It wasn't mentioned whether Regalia knew about his fear. She even teased him about powers be more liberating than technology/ Would she even give him superpowered control over something he fears? It's like making Megan an actual Fire epic, why would she fear fire if she can control it?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

As far as I can tell, fear is not always connected to trauma of some kind, it might just be fear. Phobia. Irrational, maybe. Claustrophobia - the fear of closed spaces. Agoraphobia - the fear of large open spaces. There must also exist a fear of large bodies of water.

 

If a person is afraid of spiders, or slimes, or snakesit doesn't mean he was bitten by one - he just might be afraid. Or severely grossed, or feel something subconsciously unnatural about it.

 

Also, it's mentioned that David's Epic powers were supposed to be thematically connected to water - and to the Spyril. It wasn't mentioned whether Regalia knew about his fear. She even teased him about powers be more liberating than technology/ Would she even give him superpowered control over something he fears? It's like making Megan an actual Fire epic, why would she fear fire if she can control it?

 

With Epics, though, from what we've seen, the fear is always connected to a trauma, stems from a trauma, or both. Newton's fear of disappointing others was connected to her parents; Megan's fear of fire was connected to a childhood house fire; Sourcefield's fear of cults  and poisoning was connected to her cult-obsessed grandparents poisoning her as a child. Though it hasn't been confirmed, I think it's safe to assume that Steelheart's fear of not being feared was also connected to some sort of trauma, and that Obliteration's fear (whatever it is) also stems from a trauma earlier in his life. So far, we haven't seen any Epics whose fear stems from a phobia, unless that phobia was instilled by some sort of trauma. 

 

As for David's possible power over water—I think Calamity has some way of knowing, or sensing, an Epic's fear. Or his powers know what to do and automatically avoid giving an Epic literal power over their fear, or the powers he gives are the same for everyone and the Epic's body just adapts. Otherwise, if he gave David waterbending powers with water as a weakness, David would be allergic to his own powers. Somehow, someway, I think the powers know to avoid whatever the weakness is. 

[Voidus]

Phobias and fears are two seperate things, phobias are by definition irrational. Statistically speaking if Epics could have phobias as their weakness then most Epic weaknesses would be public speaking, followed by spiders and heights.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

Phobias and fears are two seperate things, phobias are by definition irrational. Statistically speaking if Epics could have phobias as their weakness then most Epic weaknesses would be public speaking, followed by spiders and heights.

 

If phobias were weaknesses and Calamity had risen six years ago, my weakness would've been fish. And then there would be a whole slew of Epics whose weaknesses were clowns, small cramped spaces, creepy Halloween masks, and probably at least a dozen or so whose weaknesses were driving on the freeway. Now, that isn't to say those things are automatically excluded from being weaknesses; anyone could have a trauma plausibly related to any of those things (and the weirder the phobia, the worse the potential trauma becomes). I think the big thing about weaknesses is that they have to be personal and the tie to the Epic's past has to be unique to that Epic. Phobias are impersonal. The only way you could tie my former fear of fish to my past is that one night when my brother and I watched 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and the squid freaked me out so badly I couldn't sleep. That wasn't trauma. That was just a quirk of psychology meshed together with a movie I might've been too young for. 

[Sarcasm]

Could it be possible that all the people chosen to be Epics were people with traumatic pasts?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

Could it be possible that all the people chosen to be Epics were people with traumatic pasts?

That's what seems to be implied by having every Epic so far have a weakness tied in some way to some past trauma.

[Sarcasm]

That's what seems to be implied by having every Epic so far have a weakness tied in some way to some past trauma.

Well, what if Epics were chosen after a traumatic event, kind of like (minor Mistborn spoiler)

Snapping in Mistborn