Windrunner

Brandon Sanderson AMA 2015

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Did I just have my mind blown? Brandon recently confirmed that the mural in Elantris, the one that showed the Elantrians and the lake, is a key to how traveling between realms works in the Cosmere. So it's very likely that the lake is a gate to a different realm - could be the cognitive, could be the spiritual. 

I'd have to say the Cognitive, because of the white sun represented on the mural.

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I don't remember a white sun. The only feature of interest I recall is the lake, pictured as a disc.

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Lately I've been thinking that the lake, pictured as a disk, isn't really a lake at all, but a planet.

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There is a blue oval and a white sphere. As far as I can tell, they represent the Shardpool and something on the other side of the "gate." Since tWoK, I've assumed that it's Shadesmar/the Cognitive Realm. It's a black sky with a white sphere.

 

“Over there,” Karata said, pointing at the far end of the rectangular room, where the wall held only a single mural. It depicted a large mirrorlike blue oval. An Elantrian stood facing the oval, his arms outstretched and his eyes closed. He appeared to be flying toward the blue disk. The rest of the wall was black, though there was a large white sphere on the other side of the oval.

“Lake.” The old Elantrian’s voice was quiet but insistent.
“It’s painted sideways,” Karata realized. “See, he’s falling into a lake.”
Raoden nodded. The Elantrian in the picture wasn’t flying, he was falling. The oval was the surface of a lake, lines on its sides depicting a shore.
“It’s like the water was considered a gate of some sort,” Galladon said, head cocked to the side.

 

Oh, and Galladon thinks it represents the pool as a gate. :)

 

So, two questions. Is this Dominion or Devotion's "perpendicularity"? And is there a canonical term for Shardpool? Perpendicularity isn't canon yet, right? It was mentioned in a WoB...

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There is a blue oval and a white sphere. As far as I can tell, they represent the Shardpool and something on the other side of the "gate." Since tWoK, I've assumed that it's Shadesmar/the Cognitive Realm. It's a black sky with a white sphere.

 

Oh, and Galladon thinks it represents the pool as a gate. :)

 

So, two questions. Is this Dominion or Devotion's "perpendicularity"? And is there a canonical term for Shardpool? Perpendicularity isn't canon yet, right? It was mentioned in a WoB...

I always (since the definition of the Shadesmar on tWoK) asumed that The Lake being "Devotion's Shardpool" or "Devotion's Perpendicularity" was canon. That there was a way to go to the Cognitive Realm through The Lake the same way it seems that Hoid came from the Cognitive Realm on the Horneater's Lake. :blink:

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Definitely could be Shadesmar, but read another way it could be an Elantrian falling towards a planet.

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Definitely could be Shadesmar, but read another way it could be an Elantrian falling towards a planet.

The Elantrian isn't falling toward the white sphere, it's falling toward the blue oval, which is explicitly described as a lake. So the Elantrian is falling into the lake. The white sphere is on the other side, set into the black wall.

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I hereby issue a request that someone with the book/eBook handy just quote the entire passage here.

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IAmTheBeard did it 4-5 comments ago

 

 

“Over there,” Karata said, pointing at the far end of the rectangular room, where the wall held only a single mural. It depicted a large mirrorlike blue oval. An Elantrian stood facing the oval, his arms outstretched and his eyes closed. He appeared to be flying toward the blue disk. The rest of the wall was black, though there was a large white sphere on the other side of the oval.

“Lake.” The old Elantrian’s voice was quiet but insistent.
“It’s painted sideways,” Karata realized. “See, he’s falling into a lake.”
Raoden nodded. The Elantrian in the picture wasn’t flying, he was falling. The oval was the surface of a lake, lines on its sides depicting a shore.
It’s like the water was considered a gate of some sort,” Galladon said, head cocked to the side.
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That s/he did. My apologies.

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I know he isn't falling toward the white sphere. In my mind, I see him falling towards a blue planet, the black walls representing outer space. They just assume it's a lake as a gateway because they don't have the concepts for planets and space.

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"... a place with a black sky and a strange, small white sun that hung on the horizon ... Flames hovered nearby ... Like the tips of candles floating in the air and moving with the wind ... An endless dark sea, except it wasn't wet. It was made of the small beads, an entire ocean of tiny glass spheres" -WoK Chapter 45

I believe that the "floating candles" on the definition given by Shallan are spren, but other than that... the definition is the same.

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Yep, but I'm still going to tenaciously cling to my theory that it depicts an Elantrian falling towards a planet despite the fact that Shadesmar obviously fits better with this description. :)

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Well, yeah, but this guy probably has probably been through the pool already, or has seen others do it and knows what lies beyond. Hoid can navigate it, after all, so it's not impossible

Sanderson himself said that it's incredibly dangerous but not impossible.

My theory es that there's somthing about Sel's Shadesmar related to the death of both Devotion and Dominion. It can be a "storm" of raw investiture raging without control or the "Wasteland Shadesmar" that Sanderson talked about on the AMA.

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I'm a he, hence the beard. :) Thanks for that quote, Axies. I was going to grab it next.

 

 

“Lake.” The old Elantrian’s voice was quiet but insistent.

...

The oval was the surface of a lake, lines on its sides depicting a shore.

 

The Elantrian, who presumably knows what it is, calls it a lake and it's apparently recognizable as a lake from the mural. As well, remember that Brandon just revealed that this was the "big hint" in Elantris for how Worldhopping works. So far, we're pretty sure that Hoit, the Seventeenth Shard, and others aren't using space travel for that. So I don't think that the Elantrians had space travel.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you, but I think this is pretty much confirmation that the Shardpools are the Perpendicularities and that they grant access to the Cognitive Realm.

 

Edit: Sorry about all the repeated posts! The internet is being wonky...

Edited by IAmTheBeard
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I'm a he, hence the beard. :) Thanks for that quote, Axies. I was going to grab it next.

 

 

The Elantrian, who presumably knows what it is, calls it a lake and it's apparently recognizable as a lake from the mural. As well, remember that Brandon just revealed that this was the "big hint" in Elantris for how Worldhopping works. So far, we're pretty sure that Hoit, the Seventeenth Shard, and others aren't using space travel for that. So I don't think that the Elantrians had space travel.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you, but I think this is pretty much confirmation that the Shardpools are the Perpendicularities and that they grant access to the Cognitive Realm.

 

Edit: Sorry about all the repeated posts! The internet is being wonky...

To add this using that weird thing known as logic, We know Galladon later worldhops, so it isn't a stretch to say he uses the Devotions Shardpool / Perpendicularity in Elantris that he actively has access to, to leave Sel.

Also, complete speculation but I suspect that Dominion's Shardpool is either in Dahkor Monastery or Wyrn's palace.

Edited by Iron Eyes
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To add this using that weird thing known as logic, We know Galladon later worldhops, so it isn't a stretch to say he uses the Devotions Shardpool / Perpendicularity in Elantris that he actively has access to, to leave Sel.

Also, complete speculation but I suspect that Dominion's Shardpool is either in Dahkor Monastery or Wyrn's palace.

 

OMG!! You dare to use logic!! Someone take this guy out of the internet right now!

I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one that suspects about Dominion's Shardpool being on a Monastery/Palace...

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Playing Devil's Advocate, just because they say the mural is apparently painted sideways doesn't necessarily mean it is and it could very well depend on how you look at it, a la falling towards a planet/walking towards a disc etc etc. (very loose point i know, but surely it would have made more sense to paint it more accurately and with the correct actions to prevent this minor quibble? The only thing i don't get is why a falling action, i mean surely simply leaning back or walking into it would suffice as the other Elantrians did (are they planning on belly flopping straight through to Shadesmar or what?)

 

One thing that sticks out to me - wasn't the well from mistborn relatively smaller than this lake (presumably Devotion's Sharpool/Perpendicularity)? What is the cause/Why is this the case? hmm

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One thing that sticks out to me - wasn't the well from mistborn relatively smaller than this lake (presumably Devotion's Sharpool/Perpendicularity)? What is the cause/Why is this the case? hmm

 

Maybe because the fauna on Scadrial? 

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How big was the lake though? I don't remember exact description, but the impression I got is that it's no more than a few yards in each direction - more the size of a small swimming pool than a lake.

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How big was the lake though? I don't remember exact description, but the impression I got is that it's no more than a few yards in each direction - more the size of a small swimming pool than a lake.

 

 

 

"Raoden frowned. The 'Lake' was barely ten feet deep, more like a pool." Elantris pg 355

The width of the pool isn't directly referenced, but I agree with you Argent. The implication is that it is basically the deep end of a swimming pool.

Edited by Iron Eyes
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Hmm, well according to coppermind, the Well was only a few feet wide and was in a shallow depression of rock.

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Still, neither one is a massive pool of liquid. The size difference is insignificant for the purposes of the argument I was addressing, I think.

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Oh i know, it was just something that stuck out to me. As for the original question, i think it could be possible that might die if they really wanted to, should they enter the pool.

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So a thought just struck me. If Spren can pull themselves into the Physical realm more by attaching themselves to a human(shardblade) and it appears that those humans can pull themselves into the cognitive using that same link. Then maybe what is need to enter the a realm to a greater extent is an anchor of sorts (Something that originates in that realm). If the Pools like the one in Elantris are investiture that have gained intelligence they may be able to act as that anchor for people that enter them. This would imply that all people with a Nahel bond are able to touch shadesmar.

 

I wish we knew more about what a person exists as in the cognitive realm. That information would help a lot to understand  what happened to the Elantrians that dissolved in the pool.

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