dougpgc Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Sanderson himself said that it's incredibly dangerous but not impossible. My theory es that there's somthing about Sel's Shadesmar related to the death of both Devotion and Dominion. It can be a "storm" of raw investiture raging without control or the "Wasteland Shadesmar" that Sanderson talked about on the AMA. I wondered about that too. A related question: Brandon has said somewhere that Sel's magic is location specific for reasons fandom hasn't teased out yet. (And I had in my notes that this is not because the shard's intent is Dominion.) I wonder if it has something to do with -- and I know this part may still be unsure -- the Dor's coming from both Devotion and Dominion, and the fact that Devotion is dead and Dominion is splintered. Then again, he also said at one point that Scadrial's magic would be easiest to use on other worlds (?) Is this just because metal is everywhere? If that's the case, then maybe Sel's magic's being location specific has more to do with the medium through which the magic is accessed rather than its source. P.S. - @ ParadoxSpren -- The mental images of people belly flopping into Shadesmar made me laugh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I wondered about that too. A related question: Brandon has said somewhere that Sel's magic is location specific for reasons fandom hasn't teased out yet. (And I had in my notes that this is not because the shard's intent is Dominion.) I wonder if it has something to do with -- and I know this part may still be unsure -- the Dor's coming from both Devotion and Dominion, and the fact that Devotion is dead and Dominion is splintered. Then again, he also said at one point that Scadrial's magic would be easiest to use on other worlds (?) Is this just because metal is everywhere? If that's the case, then maybe Sel's magic's being location specific has more to do with the medium through which the magic is accessed rather than its source. P.S. - @ ParadoxSpren -- The mental images of people belly flopping into Shadesmar made me laugh I believe both Dominion and Devotion are splintered and Aona and Skai both dead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axies Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I wondered about that too. A related question: Brandon has said somewhere that Sel's magic is location specific for reasons fandom hasn't teased out yet. (And I had in my notes that this is not because the shard's intent is Dominion.) I wonder if it has something to do with -- and I know this part may still be unsure -- the Dor's coming from both Devotion and Dominion, and the fact that Devotion is dead and Dominion is splintered. Then again, he also said at one point that Scadrial's magic would be easiest to use on other worlds (?) Is this just because metal is everywhere? If that's the case, then maybe Sel's magic's being location specific has more to do with the medium through which the magic is accessed rather than its source. P.S. - @ ParadoxSpren -- The mental images of people belly flopping into Shadesmar made me laugh Scadrial's magic is the easiest to use outworld because the focus are metals and they are everywhere. (I think Sanderson said so somtime, somewhere)... And about the Sel... on this same AMA he answered me a couple of questions about that, but... [–]Yourigath Hi! First of all, thank you. For your work. Your interaction with the fans. Everything. Now... Cosmere question. I've been thinking about how some investitures seem more realted to one place (AonDor) while others are less limited (you can bring metals to Roshar an use Allomancy there). That made me think about... Can you acces the Dor while on other plantes? Can you, I don't know, "tell the Dor" that you are on Roshar using an Aon that doesn't have the base on the map of Sel but in the world of Roshar and use Elantrian magic there? An Aon with an spiral pattern with the right lines, dots, etc... that tells the Dor "I'm here. This is Roshar. And I need your power to do X" mistborn[S] Great question, and one integral to the workings of cosmere Magic! No, you cannot currently access the Dor anywhere else. The Dor is a big part of why magic on Sel is distinctive. Yourigath Woah! Thank you. You just destroyed most of my theories about magic on Cosmere, but that's great (that means I'll have to do new theorycrafting)! May I ask you another question? Knowing that you can only access the Dor from Sel. If an Elantrian worldhops does it returns to a normal human pre-Shaod state? If this Elantrian goes back to Sel it recovers his Elantrian powers or he keeps his pre-Shaod form? mistborn[S] An Elantrian away from Sel would still be an Elantrian--but many of the visible signs would fade away, much like something florescent that stops glowing when moved away from a Black Light. I'm still tryng to get something from that "Great question, and one integral to the workings of cosmere Magic!" part, but I have no idea about what about the Dor and the mechanics of Cosmere Magic can... don't know, maybe the Dor can't flow through the Cognitive Realm from one planet to other and is just "chained" to Sel... Maybe is something Seon related... Maybe the fact that there is no Shard alive to know the fact that you are on other planet trying to get acces to their investiture... I'm really lost there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I believe both Dominion and Devotion are splintered and Aona and Skai both dead. You are correct Voidus. From the Letter: One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say. In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Edited July 30, 2015 by Iron Eyes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 This would imply that all people with a Nahel bond are able to touch shadesmar. Well. Kaladin appears to at least see Shadesmar in Words of Radiance when he practices Surgebinding in the chasms. Shallan and Jasnah have both been there, though that might be because both of their spren give them access to the Transformation Surge, which requires knowledge and understanding of the cognitive aspects of things and people. Still, Transformation alone is probably not enough to allow them to see Shadesmar. Renarin... we don't know about him, but I think it's possible that seeing the future depends on Shadesmar somehow. I would've put it more in the spiritual realm's domain, but atium also allows for futuresight, and it specifically expands the mind (so it can deal with the new information), so maybe there is something cognitive to it. Szeth probably doesn't count (no Nahel bond), we haven't spend much time with Lift, and Ym probably wasn't far enough into his bonding to see anything; else, not enough time in his head. So maybe. It's possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axies Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Well. Kaladin appears to at least see Shadesmar in Words of Radiance when he practices Surgebinding in the chasms. Shallan and Jasnah have both been there, though that might be because both of their spren give them access to the Transformation Surge, which requires knowledge and understanding of the cognitive aspects of things and people. Still, Transformation alone is probably not enough to allow them to see Shadesmar. Renarin... we don't know about him, but I think it's possible that seeing the future depends on Shadesmar somehow. I would've put it more in the spiritual realm's domain, but atium also allows for futuresight, and it specifically expands the mind (so it can deal with the new information), so maybe there is something cognitive to it. Szeth probably doesn't count (no Nahel bond), we haven't spend much time with Lift, and Ym probably wasn't far enough into his bonding to see anything; else, not enough time in his head. So maybe. It's possible. I see the "touch Shadesmar" this way... with the Nahel Bond you have acces to the Shadesmar (or the power that comes and goes throught the Cognitive Realm). Shallan can see into the Shadesmar... she can make a Cognitive version of herself into the Shadesmar but she is still on the Physical Realm while doing a Soulcasting. Jasnah is another story... she has acces to the Transportation surge so she can put her physical self into the Shadesmar. Renarin and the visions... I would say that the visions are something from the "godspren" that he might be bonded with and not something from the Shadesmar itself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) And for my next trick - more AMA! https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctkpdcm?context=10000 Q: Is there one shard besides Harmony that would give Odium a run for his money? A: Possibly. Q: Are the Highprinces (back in the day) mirrored off of the Ten Heralds? A: No. Q: How significant will the White Sand be to the cosmere? Any hints on the Shard that resides there? A: Moderately. (Its magic has some cool ramifications for off world use, and several characters factor prominently into the Cosmere.) Q: Is there more than one magic system in white sand? A: Only one in the current outline. Q: Does the one magic have more than one variation? Because I got the impression that there was something going on on the Darkside? Though I guess the Sky Colors (I think that's what they're called, I read the draft you send out early 2014 so my recollection is a little fuzzy) don't have to be related to magic. Or you could have written them out if they were... Anyway do you have any idea when the first volume will be released? How likely do you think it will be out by the end of 2015? A: In intended the colors on Darkside to be more a matter of the ecology than the magic--though, on that planet, magic and ecology are very closely tied together. (Well, I guess most of the magics are.) https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctkvrep?context=10000 Q: Are you excited about the Mistborn board game that Crafty Games will be showing off at GenCon this weekend? A: Sure am! Though I personally wish they'd called it "Mistborn: House War" instead, as I'd suggested. The game is more about the politicking that goes on in the books than it is about being a Mistborn. I'm worried people will go in thinking about it the wrong way. This was listed before, I am including it for completion's sake. https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctlaz2l?context=10000 Q: Did Ruin and Preservation create Scadrial, as in the actual planet? The other Shards seem to have settled on already-made worlds (or at least, they did for Roshar). A: What Ruin and Preservation did is less common, for certain. https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctlc5r0?context=10000 Q: My question is was the change to the use of modern English phrases in The Stormlight Archives deliberate or am I reading too much into it? A: In regards to my books, I use Tolkien's own explanation, which was to pretend that the book you're reading is in translation--everything has been taken by myself from native dialects, and translated it to English. When I make a pun, they probably didn't say those exact words--they said something in Alethi that made a pun, and I put an appropriate one in the same place. Likewise, some of their idioms just don't translate, so I use a modern idiom that means something similar for effect. https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctlcbfd?context=10000 Q: We know that Sigzil and Hoid have a previous relation but besides that the former was the latter's apprentice we don't know much, is this something that we will found out more about eventually? A: Yes, there will be more. https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctlcc7p?context=10000 Q: Is the mist creature that was seen throughout the second mistborn book preservation/the mists version of the Stormfather which seems to be related to Honor/Highstorms. A: You are on the right track. Q: Do those two weather related phenomenons have something in common. They both seem to have investiture that people can draw on. A: Weather is important to most cosmere magic. Q: The afore mentioned mist being was called a "shadow of self" in one of the original 3 MB books. Does this have anything to do with a book of the same name? The Storfather also called himself a "shadow" of what Honor was, does this support my above theory? A: The Stormfather would use the same language. https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctlcd8b?context=10000 Q: When Jasnah talks about soulcasting the 8 different types of blood, is she referring to transfusion typing within humans (e.g. ABO+/- on Earth) or to different kinds of blood between species (e.g. human vs axehound vs greatshell vs Aimian, etc)? A: Both, though people on Roshar haven't hit upon the levels of complexity in blood types that we know. https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctlcdf5?context=10000 Q: Did [Awakening a Lifeless with their own Breath] happen "on screen"? A: RAFO. https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctlcdio?context=10000 Q: Is Ashyn the Tranquiline Halls? A: RAFO. https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctlckv1?context=10000 Q: What time of day did the Recreance happen? A: RAFO! (In that case, that's shorthand for "I haven't written the scene, so I haven't settled on a time-frame.") https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/ctlcl93?context=10000 Q: Since there's a Feruchemical metal that stores calories, is there one that stores the need to eliminate waste? A: Not yet. Edited July 30, 2015 by Argent 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 https://www.reddit.c...d?context=10000 Quote Q: We know that Sigzil and Hoid have a previous relation but besides that the former was the latter's apprentice we don't know much, is this something that we will found out more about eventually? A: Yes, there will be more. This interests me as we might find out more about the Worldsingers, and through them, possibly glimpse Hoid's motivations and/or the reason for the Worldsingers/Worldbringers/Enefels https://www.reddit.c...1?context=10000 Quote Q: What time of day did the Recreance happen? A: RAFO! (In that case, that's shorthand for "I haven't written the scene, so I haven't settled on a time-frame.") I asked this one. Was trying to see if i could tie the timing with Cusicesh's routine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 And for my next trick - more AMA! That's the best kind of trick! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't know, Feruchemical poopminds... close call. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ulgh. Can you imagine someone tapping one of those? Worst thing ever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccstat Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't know, Feruchemical poopminds... close call.On that topic, the way he answered is interesting. Does "Not yet" imply that there are more alloys to be explored than the 16 (seems unlikely), that the magic can be changed (meaning by people, since it's not the sort of change I'd expect Harmony to find necessary to institute), or just that nobody had discovered this particular use? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think that kind of metal mind would be a throw away when full. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Haha, it sounds like a magic system Shardbearers (and Adolin in particular) would love to have access to and would get a lot of use out of it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ulgh. Can you imagine someone tapping one of those? Worst thing ever. If you tap it all at once, there's diminishing returns... so maybe it's not that bad if you try to tap it all in a microsecond. (Then you could re-store and never have to throw away your metalminds!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 If you tap it all at once, there's diminishing returns... so maybe it's not that bad if you try to tap it all in a microsecond. (Then you could re-store and never have to throw away your metalminds!) That or you explode. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Arum Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Ok, I'm late to this party with regards to the "Do the Hoed actually die when they go in the pool" question. I have a few thoughts: If the Hoed don't die when they pass through the pool in the mountains, does this mean that all previous Elantrians and Hoed who had passed through the pool are now Elantrians again, since Raoden fixed AonDor? I am now imagining in the Elantris sequel a sudden influx of Elantrians coming "home". Also, if an Elantrian goes through the pool prior to the the Reod, did/could they become Hoed wherever they were or at least the sickly version of Elantrians? For example, if they worldhopped elsewhere, what would have happened to them? Would they become the wretches and invalid beggars common on so many worlds? And once AonDor was fixed, would they miraculously be healed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Also, if an Elantrian goes through the pool prior to the the Reod, did/could they become Hoed wherever they were or at least the sickly version of Elantrians? For example, if they worldhopped elsewhere, what would have happened to them? Would they become the wretches and invalid beggars common on so many worlds? And once AonDor was fixed, would they miraculously be healed? That's an interesting question. Brandon was asked elsewhere about worldhopping Elantrians, and he said they'd still be Elantrians, but that the visible signs wouldn't show. Because the problem was fixed by restoring Elantris (implying Elantris was at the root of the problem), and the worldhopping Elantrians would not be within range of Elantris, I am inclined to believe that they would have been fine. But if that were the case, you could fix the Elantrians just by transporting them far away, and that seems a little too easy. But it's entirely possible that fixing Elantris had larger scale ramifications. I struggle to think of what they would be, though. Elantris was just a large Aon... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 I don't know, even if an Elantrian travels to, say, Roshar and they look like a non-glowing native (perhaps a poor example of a world, Rosharans also like to glow...), they are still Elantrians realmatically. The distance doesn't change them internally, I don't think. So if you transported a Hoed there, perhaps their physical appearance would revert to something more normal, but they would still be able to heal. Then again, maybe not. The difference between a full Elantrian and a Hoed is that a full Elantrian is done with his or her transformation, there is no more need for the Dor to feed them energy. A Hoed, stuck as they are, are also in a complete state however - it's just a state that's not quite all the way up to an Elantrian. The Dor doesn't actively feed them investiture, it's not transforming them at the moment, so I don't believe sending them away would "fix" them - that would require a power source, an investiture, that either undoes the partial transformation, or completes it; both of which I find unlikely options. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 I don't know, even if an Elantrian travels to, say, Roshar and they look like a non-glowing native (perhaps a poor example of a world, Rosharans also like to glow...), they are still Elantrians realmatically. The distance doesn't change them internally, I don't think. So if you transported a Hoed there, perhaps their physical appearance would revert to something more normal, but they would still be able to heal. Then again, maybe not. The difference between a full Elantrian and a Hoed is that a full Elantrian is done with his or her transformation, there is no more need for the Dor to feed them energy. A Hoed, stuck as they are, are also in a complete state however - it's just a state that's not quite all the way up to an Elantrian. The Dor doesn't actively feed them investiture, it's not transforming them at the moment, so I don't believe sending them away would "fix" them - that would require a power source, an investiture, that either undoes the partial transformation, or completes it; both of which I find unlikely options. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the already-transformed Elantrians also become Hoeds? I recall Raoden and co. finding a Hoed which was an Elantrian before the city fell from grace. It can't just be a matter of the Dor finishing their transformation if even the already-transformed Elantrians had that happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Yeah, that's right... I guess the Dor acts a little bit like a spren for the Elantrians then, filling in gaps in their spiritweb, changing the way they look and granting them abilities. So if an Elantrian gets too far away from Elantris, or maybe Sel, the Dor can't "reach" them, so they just walk around with gaps in their spiritweb. If this holds, then a Hoed also has a cracked spiritweb (they can draw Aons, after all), but the Dor can't quite fill them in. The cracks are either in the wrong places, or not enough. If a person like that were to get away from Sel... I guess it depends on what causes the transformation - is it the fact that the spiritweb is cracked, or is the Dor actively fueling their physical change? I imagine it a little bit like mutated DNA - if your cells get damaged and only know how to make damaged proteins, then they will always only make damaged proteins; if, however, your proteins are being damaged after they get created, then removing the source of this damage fixes you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 It is possible that the change to the Elantris Aon by the earth quake triggered a reboot of sorts forceing all existing elantrians to attempt the transformation again. That form is something that happens to anyone not just Elantrians, when an Aon that changes a person is made incorrectly, just look at (can't remember his name)'s wife. It is unlikely the distance would effect any real change on the Hoed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Arum Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 It seems like we don't have a full grasp on what actually would happen to a pre-Reod Elantrian worldhopped during the Reod or a post-Reod Hoed worldhopping. Obviously something must be going on with their Spiritweb as implied by the WOB about an Elantrians appearance. But I agree with Argent, their Spiritweb is still Elantrian no matter what when they worldhop. As Moogle also states, it seems like it would be too easy to fix an Elantrian in the sickly state by simply worldhopping elsewhere. It's obvious that the pool was some part of ritual for the Elantrians, so I'm sure they would have tried using the pool to fix themselves. So if they did, where are those Elantrians now? What happened to them after they passed through the pool? That question asked about what happens to Heod's passing through the pool really has me thinking now! I am not on Reddit, so I cannot ask a question about this to Brandon in his never-ending AMA. Would someone else ask if a Hoed were to pass through the pool and worldhop, would they be cured of their sickly state? Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 I am not on Reddit, so I cannot ask a question about this to Brandon in his never-ending AMA. Would someone else ask if a Hoed were to pass through the pool and worldhop, would they be cured of their sickly state? Thanks! I've already asked a bunch of questions on my account, but making an account is incredibly easy. So easy in fact that a lot of Redditors actually have multiple throwaway accounts for different corners of the site. You can literally create an account in seconds and start asking questions in no time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) If I remember correctly when the change happened everyone immediately turned on the Elantians like a bunch of villagers who think they found a witch. I don't think any of the original Elantrians had time to study the problem and the more powerful among them were more severely affected by the change. Edited August 2, 2015 by Arook 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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