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Where Did All The Epics Go?


Blackhoof

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In Mitosis and Firefight, the Epics seem to have completely disappeared from Newcago. This is never explained, so I assume they just ran away after Steelheart and Nightwielder was killed. But this seems strange to me- there were thousands of epics in Newcago, and they all ran away? Even the dozens of High Epics?

I get being spooked by Steelheart's death, but I would think that even if they left their homes in the first place, the High Epics at least would want to rule this mighty city. But even weeks/months afterwards, the only Epics that attack are Mitosis, Instabam and Sourcefield, who were all sent by Regalia.

It just seems strange to me that no attempts were made by the previous Epic inhabitants of Newcago to reclaim their city, although i'm glad they haven't.

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I was also confused by this. In the first book Prof claims that there are millions of Epics in Newcago. Millions. Even if we assume that the vast majority of these are minor Epics like Curveball who could be cowed by the Reckoners, it's unreasonable to believe that at least a few didn't revel in their newfound freedom from Steelheart.

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I wondered the same thing and my best guess is that the remaining Epics just aren't strong enough to fight back against Enforcment keeping peace.

David may have said that there's a dozen High Epics in town but he also said only a couple of them have a PI, which is inconsistent and means we have no idea how strong those actually would be. Given that he could predict them hitting Fortuity on that criteria and Steelheatr's inner circle isn't around anymore, I would say that no Epics with PI are left in Newcago, meaning Enforcment can kill them.

 

It's still strange that there wasn't even a mention.

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So I'm not the only one who wondered about this? I just thought I missed something really obvious.

It did seem strange to me. Enforcement probably could have fought back against many of them, but considering their structure was organized around groups of soldiers who all worked under different Epics, you'd think those Epics would've found some dirt on those soldiers before Steelheart's defeat--the names and locations of their families, significant others, etc.--and used that info afterward to stay on top. "Fight back and I murder your husband/kids/parents/girlfriend/boyfriend/pet dog," that sort of thing.

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I was also confused by this. In the first book Prof claims that there are millions of Epics in Newcago. Millions. Even if we assume that the vast majority of these are minor Epics like Curveball who could be cowed by the Reckoners, it's unreasonable to believe that at least a few didn't revel in their newfound freedom from Steelheart.

millions? Not so, only thousands (ONLY thousands of superhumans, lol).

the quote is something like "there are thousands of Epics, hundreds of High Epics, but only a dozen/few dozen of those have a prime invincibility". Which is contradictory, because in every other case, High Epic is defined as an epic WITH a prime invincibility. Maybe David also defines just powerful Epics in general as High Epics? Which is why he references Regalia as one at one point.

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millions? Not so, only thousands (ONLY thousands of superhumans, lol).

the quote is something like "there are thousands of Epics, hundreds of High Epics, but only a dozen/few dozen of those have a prime invincibility". Which is contradictory, because in every other case, High Epic is defined as an epic WITH a prime invincibility. Maybe David also defines just powerful Epics in general as High Epics? Which is why he references Regalia as one at one point.

 

Wow, good memory. I was so convinced there were millions that I ran to check the book again, certain I was going to get to post a quote from the text validating my claim and reclaiming my geek honor. :P

 

Still though. Thousands of Epics is a pretty big deal. Especially as the text describes "a couple dozen" as possessing prime invincibilities, and we see only three such Epics in the book besides Steelheart. (Fortuity, Nightwielder, and Firefight. Assuming David is strictly literal when he says "a couple dozen," that leaves twenty-one unkillable Epics loose in the city.)

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Exactly, that's what I thought.

I get the vulnerables running (especially weak ones like Curveball) but the invincibles? I would think they'd relish the chance the rule.

But I guess.... Consider Fortuity. Considered the worst (morally, i suppose) of the Highs, except for Steelheart's inner circle, and can you imagine him running a city? No, he wouldn't have the sheer power. Heck, any epic will explosive powers could checkmate him easily.

Maybe epics insanely op enough to run a city are really, REALLY rare. Megan is an example of an epic with a PI but without a hugely impressive set of back-up powers. Maybe many high epics are like this.

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I figure enforcement Cores could have turned on the epic in their team- it is always a minor epic, so easily killed with surprise and firepower.

But regardless, it just isn't mentioned, which i consider strange. Even a few lines about the epics fleeing and being scared of whoever could kill steelheart would have been sufficient, but we get nothing.

Epics need to get their rust together.

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millions? Not so, only thousands (ONLY thousands of superhumans, lol).

the quote is something like "there are thousands of Epics, hundreds of High Epics, but only a dozen/few dozen of those have a prime invincibility". Which is contradictory, because in every other case, High Epic is defined as an epic WITH a prime invincibility. Maybe David also defines just powerful Epics in general as High Epics? Which is why he references Regalia as one at one point.

IIRC David, as someone not formally trained in Epic science-y stuff, has been noted to cannibalize terms from multiple classification systems that I presume he learned from hearsay in his stack of notes. Along with words like prime invincibility that he appears to have made up, judging from Tia's response to the notes.

It seems to me David's definition of an Epic with prime invincibility is coincidentally the formal definition of High Epic, a term he used to use to just describe anyone unreasonably overpowered and dangerous.

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IIRC David, as someone not formally trained in Epic science-y stuff, has been noted to cannibalize terms from multiple classification systems that I presume he learned from hearsay in his stack of notes. Along with words like prime invincibility that he appears to have made up, judging from Tia's response to the notes.

It seems to me David's definition of an Epic with prime invincibility is coincidentally the formal definition of High Epic, a term he used to use to just describe anyone unreasonably overpowered and dangerous.

The whole matter isn't explained well. In Firefight he said he was wrong about calling Regalia a High Epic, not becuase he got the definition wrong but simply becuause he simply made a mistake, without giving any indication he changed systemms between book one and two.

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The whole matter isn't explained well. In Firefight he said he was wrong about calling Regalia a High Epic, not becuase he got the definition wrong but simply becuause he simply made a mistake, without giving any indication he changed systemms between book one and two.

 

Isn't that simply given?  In the first book, Tia mentions how add-hoc his system is.

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Isn't that simply given?  In the first book, Tia mentions how add-hoc his system is.

Which part do you mean? The one were he didn't even think about the fact that he had to abandon his system that he sank years of his life into or the one were he somehow got a formal eduacation on the topic, even though Tia clearly refused to tell him any of the lorist systematic?

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I think Epics are like Lions....No fears and always seeking to be on top. The "Calamity syndrome" kind of makes them lose their normal logic mind and just drive to be the strongest...and to survive. 

 

When someone or something takes out the prides leader...who you know is stronger than you....you dont question it...you just submit or bail. And we all know how bad epics are at submitting.

 

Survival instinct is the key though...epics want more than ANYTHING else to survive...a very base instinct. So when a new animal arrives and kills the big dog...instinct kicks in and you bail.

 

My thought is....even though everyone knows David is the steel slayer...they havent forgotten he has a very powerful epic working with/for him "limelight". And how powerful must you be to have an epic that powerful working for you. 

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I think Epics are like Lions....No fears and always seeking to be on top. The "Calamity syndrome" kind of makes them lose their normal logic mind and just drive to be the strongest...and to survive.

When someone or something takes out the prides leader...who you know is stronger than you....you dont question it...you just submit or bail. And we all know how bad epics are at submitting.

Survival instinct is the key though...epics want more than ANYTHING else to survive...a very base instinct. So when a new animal arrives and kills the big dog...instinct kicks in and you bail.

My thought is....even though everyone knows David is the steel slayer...they havent forgotten he has a very powerful epic working with/for him "limelight". And how powerful must you be to have an epic that powerful working for you.

Firefight actually reveals the opposite: It's fear that drives them crazy. Their homicidal tendencies can then be seen as an extreme form of paranoia, lashing out at anything and everything that makes them nervous. There are some Epics (like Fortuity) who seem to have come to enjoy their corruption, but others (like Sourcefield) seem to have simply been driven mad.

Also, no one knew Prof was an Epic. Not even the other Reckoners cells knew.

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I think Epics are like Lions....No fears and always seeking to be on top. The "Calamity syndrome" kind of makes them lose their normal logic mind and just drive to be the strongest...and to survive. 

 

When someone or something takes out the prides leader...who you know is stronger than you....you dont question it...you just submit or bail. And we all know how bad epics are at submitting.

 

Survival instinct is the key though...epics want more than ANYTHING else to survive...a very base instinct. So when a new animal arrives and kills the big dog...instinct kicks in and you bail.

 

My thought is....even though everyone knows David is the steel slayer...they havent forgotten he has a very powerful epic working with/for him "limelight". And how powerful must you be to have an epic that powerful working for you. 

 

Yeah, people didn't know Prof was an epic. they filmed the whole thing and claimed that it was Reckoner technology. Remember the prologue where Abraham's jacket protects himself and other soldiers from Sourcefield's blast- the Reckoners at this stage are open about their "technology" and its uses.

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