Analyzing the Death Rattles

[Delightful]

The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather…we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorn comes.

-Collected on the first day of the week Palah of the month Shash of the year 1171, thirty-one seconds before death. Subject was a darkeyed pregnant woman of middle years. Child did not survive

Could this be a Parshendi viewpoint? "his" referring to Odium, and we know that they had some kind of special relationship with Odium before he betrayed them for mankind.

The 'love of men' might refer to the failed treaty, although now I type it out, I remember the failed treaty was the Parshendi's fault. But maybe they really wanted peace before they discovered whatever Gavilar was up to that would bring their gods back?

(I don't remember how much of this post is spoilery so I'm just tagging the whole thing.)

Edited April 28, 2014 by Delightful

[Shardmancer]

WANDERSAIL

"I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it give us further breath to draw"
-Dated Shashanan, 1173, 23 seconds pre-death. Subject: A darkeyes youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note

 

 

Idk if anyone already said this.. but I saw somone saying this could be Odium.. I would disargee.. this actually sounds a lot like Adolin killing Sadeas to me.. And he messes him up!!

 

Edited April 28, 2014 by Shardmancer

[Aether]

I think the consensus on this one is that it is talking about (WoR spoiler inc.)

Shallan's mother and her attempt to kill Shallan because of her manifested Lightweaving abilities.

[Aleksiel]

I think the consensus on this one is that it is talking about (WoR spoiler inc.)

Shallan's mother and her attempt to kill Shallan because of her manifested Lightweaving abilities.

 

Wouldn't it then have been 'her throat', not 'his' then? I think what you mention happened before 1173 and death rattles are of the future as far as we know. It could have been for Lift, we don't know enough about her past, but she grew up in a tough surrounding and someone was after her because spoilers. 

 

What you said is reasonable, however it would change the purpose of the death rattles. Still connected to the Desolation, but not necessarily of the future. Unless there are several pretty clear references to past events, I'll keep thinking of them as future-telling.

[Delightful]

WANDERSAIL

"I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it give us further breath to draw"

-Dated Shashanan, 1173, 23 seconds pre-death. Subject: A darkeyes youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note

 

 

Idk if anyone already said this.. but I saw somone saying this could be Odium.. I would disargee.. this actually sounds a lot like Adolin killing Sadeas to me.. And he messes him up!!

 

How would you describe Sadeas as a 'suckling child'?

[Shardmancer]

How would you describe Sadeas as a 'suckling child'?

 

He is a coward.. underneath his facade, his fashion and his army he is weak.. He is a scared cowering child.. Hiding behind his false sense of pride and hate, without these things he is reduced to his true form. How he ran from adolin in the dueling arena and had to leave dalinar on the cliffs because he was too scared to face them like men.. Sounds like scared suckling child.. to me anyway

[Aleksiel]

Isn't 'suckling child' a child that still feeds from his/her mother's breasts? This would rule out both suggestions.

[Delightful]

He is a coward.. underneath his facade, his fashion and his army he is weak.. He is a scared cowering child.. Hiding behind his false sense of pride and hate, without these things he is reduced to his true form. How he ran from adolin in the dueling arena and had to leave dalinar on the cliffs because he was too scared to face them like men.. Sounds like scared suckling child.. to me anyway

Fair enough. It doesn't quite add up for me,,but I can see that as an interpretation. 

[Kobold King]

He is a coward.. underneath his facade, his fashion and his army he is weak.. He is a scared cowering child.. Hiding behind his false sense of pride and hate, without these things he is reduced to his true form. How he ran from adolin in the dueling arena and had to leave dalinar on the cliffs because he was too scared to face them like men.. Sounds like scared suckling child.. to me anyway

If the "suckling child" is metaphorical, then I would suggest Elhokar as his identity, especially with Kaladin's arc in WoR.

[Shardmancer]

If the "suckling child" is metaphorical, then I would suggest Elhokar as his identity, especially with Kaladin's arc in WoR.

 

 

That also sounds plausible, very likely as well, I was just trying to relate it to current events in our timeline

[Observer]

If the "suckling child" is metaphorical, then I would suggest Elhokar as his identity, especially with Kaladin's arc in WoR.

 

I like this interpretation quite a bit.

Kaladin spends most of WoR with Elhokar is his metaphorical hands, protecting him. Pretty much everybody who knows about the plot want him dead. The problems come when it says that all who live want it to slip, and there are a very large number of living people who would rather he didn't die.

[Chrono]

I always figured that Death Rattle talked about Nalan and him going around killing surgebinders.

[Shaggai]

I think the consensus on this one is that it is talking about (WoR spoiler inc.)

Shallan's mother and her attempt to kill Shallan because of her manifested Lightweaving abilities.

I thought it was Taravangian and the whole "killing people for their Death Rattles" thing. We know he killed small children, who became able to speak better; why not babies? It would also explain why they considered it "of particular note".

[Jaaxter]

Everyone seems to think this is about the Heralds or one Radiant from each order... What if it is just referring to the battle with the Parshendi? The rattle doesn't say that they are alone. I haven't done a shard count to confirm what I am thinking, but they probably had around 10 blades there.

 

Adolin, Renarin, Dalinar (Taln's), Shallan (Even if she didn't fight), Then Adolin won 3 blades in duels? Not counting the one Moash has that would put us at 6. I think the armies that joined Dalinar had at least 2. Then Kaladin joined the fight with one... That puts the count at an uncertain 9. We will need a final tally to really have a say, but that is what I am thinking.

 

Well, Szeth was there with a blade, and he was not strictly fighting on the Parshendi's side, bringing your total to 10! [/joke] 

 

Nevertheless... it says that they are standing "against" the wall of black and white and red. Most of the shardbearers were fighting against the stormforms in one way or the other, but Shallan and Renarin weren't involved in combat- they were searching for a way out. I don't know if that strictly counts with the imagery given. Dalinar likewise did not draw his blade against the stormforms [citation needed] but he was definitely standing against them as the commander of the Alethi forces.

 

All in all, the dramatic phrasing of the rattle "With shardblades alight" seems to suggest something a bit more dramatic than what happened at Stormseat- I would expect that particular phrase to indicate surgebinders with live blades, not just a combined total of Shardbearers.

 

But hey, it's fun to speculate!

[Observer]

It's a little hard to tell how metaphorical the Rattles are being, but the whole "All who live wish me to let the blade slip" says to me that it's not Vargo or Shallan's mother. There's just not enough of people who know enough to care about those ones.

[Shaggai]

It's a little hard to tell how metaphorical the Rattles are being, but the whole "All who live wish me to let the blade slip" says to me that it's not Vargo or Shallan's mother. There's just not enough of people who know enough to care about those ones.

That shouts Taravangian to me. I mean, he's working to preserve humanity through the Desolation. They may not know they want it, but everyone does want it.

[Observer]

In which case the "give is further breath to draw" makes a little less sense, as the killings just give him a little more knowledge that could potentially be useful. Again, it's hard to tell with these things, but it almost sounds like each death, or this one in particular, has a set amount of time it can buy if allowed.

[Shaggai]

In which case the "give is further breath to draw" makes a little less sense, as the killings just give him a little more knowledge that could potentially be useful. Again, it's hard to tell with these things, but it almost sounds like each death, or this one in particular, has a set amount of time it can buy if allowed.

It "gives us further breath to draw" in that it means that humanity (i. e. "us") will survive longer. It's not fully literal.

[Aleksiel]

But the death rattles we've witnessed so far were lieteral with all that 'drinking the feast that clings to their faces' and 'a heart in their hands'. So I expect there to be a literal knife and a literal child, even if the breath is metaphorical.

[Shaggai]

But the death rattles we've witnessed so far were lieteral with all that 'drinking the feast that clings to their faces' and 'a heart in their hands'. So I expect there to be a literal knife and a literal child, even if the breath is metaphorical.

A gemheart is not a literal heart. It does not pump blood. Nobody can eat Stormlight, unless they have the opposite of Lift's boon, and I wouldn't call inhalation "drinking". I don't inhale a glass of water.

[Aleksiel]

A gemheart is not a literal heart. It does not pump blood. Nobody can eat Stormlight, unless they have the opposite of Lift's boon, and I wouldn't call inhalation "drinking". I don't inhale a glass of water.

 

It's gemHEART, it counts. True that drinking wasn't involved, but the stormlight was in fact on their faces. There's plenty of literacy in the death rattles. If they were mainly metaphoric, they'd be practically useless. Your reading of that death rattle assumes the whole sentance was a mataphor with no actual child, knife or breaths, which doesn't fit the pattern we have so far.

[Shaggai]

It's gemHEART, it counts. True that drinking wasn't involved, but the stormlight was in fact on their faces. There's plenty of literacy in the death rattles. If they were mainly metaphoric, they'd be practically useless. Your reading of that death rattle assumes the whole sentance was a mataphor with no actual child, knife or breaths, which doesn't fit the pattern we have so far.

There is a literal child and and a literal knife. There are literal breaths, it's just not quite as set as one might interpret it. And Stormlight cannot be considered to literally be a feast.

[Aleksiel]

There is a literal child and and a literal knife. There are literal breaths, it's just not quite as set as one might interpret it. And Stormlight cannot be considered to literally be a feast.

 

Vargo doesn't use knives and strictly speaking we haven't seen him kill anyone.

[Shaggai]

Vargo doesn't use knives and strictly speaking we haven't seen him kill anyone.

There's no actual mention of how they drain the blood, so it's probably knives. Second, we've seen him in the context of the "hospital" for all of one or two interludes. We know nothing about what he has or hasn't done for the Death Rattles, and even less about what he might do in the future. Third, the Death Rattle may not even be from his perspective. Edited May 2, 2014 by Shaggai

[Aleksiel]

There's no actual mention of how they drain the blood, so it's probably knives. Second, we've seen him in the context of the "hospital" for all of one or two interludes. We know nothing about what he has or hasn't done for the Death Rattles, and even less about what he might do in the future. Third, the Death Rattle may not even be from his perspective.

 

Thus we technically haven't seen this death rattle happen. Also, they probably use needles. It's supposed to be a controlled process after all. With a knife, you risk killing the person too fast for the to rattle anything. Vargo might kill with a knife a child later on, but so far he hasn't.