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Analyzing the Death Rattles


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I've been thinking the death cries are all Taln.

Mainly because, as previously pointed out, at least one sounds directly like Taln and others could be.

When he shows up he seems surprised people aren't prepared for the desolation. Then he says he failed and collapses. My speculation is that Taln has been trying to get messages to man from damnation, realizing with the breaking of the oath pact Odium plans to let man forget and thereby become completely unprepared.

Sometimes the death cries come through clearer than others. Some messages being direct quotes from Taln others being interpretations of visions he is sending as part of the message.

I may be completely off, this is my first post and I haven't read every thread.

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That quote does seem like Kaladin, but I can't see how it would be.  I don't recall a particularly reasonably plausible source for the death cries that would allow for the quote to be actually from Kaladin's perspective.  Your idea is very good Alice.  An intriguing and a smashing first post. Welcome to the forums. Glad to have you here.

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Personally, I think it fits too perfectly for it to be anyone else but Kaladin. How someone could see from his perspective, I do not know.

Dalinar was looking through other people's perspectives with every Highstorm vision he had.  The death visions probably operate on a similar mechanic, but less guided by Honor and more latching onto whatever major Cognitive bit is on the rise at that moment.  Since Kaladin's leap was a significant event, its ripples were big enough to be part of a death vision.

 

Not that I'm saying that all the death visions are the dying person piggybacking, some seem to be observations directly from the dying, with cryptic otherworldly knowledge tacked on.  Hmmm, I wonder if the Cryptics are responsible for imparting that knowledge?  It would explain their presence in that one death vision, and possibly the mechanism by which the visions are occuring.

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  • 4 months later...

DROPLETS
Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns
-Collected: Chachnan, 1173, 84 seconds pre-death. Subject: a cutpurse with the wasting sickness, of partial Irali descent.
---Sample here is of note. References the shards of Roshar, and mentions a "Boken one", possibly Odium. Hints at a hidden shard yet unseen.

 

To me, I mean, obviously 3 of 16 = 3 shards of adonalsium that ruled on Roshar (Cultivation, Honor, and Odium) Through the Oathpack. What I find strange, or what comes ot mind is "Now the Broken One reigns." 

 

I wonder if it really is refrencing "Honor Reigns" but he isn't Honor any longer. Maybe Honors being Splintered has...one destroyed the Oathpack, but now Honor is Dead, litterally within the people.

 

Maybe they now need to recombine Honor? I dunno, I just don't see how "The Broken One" refers to Odium. to me it seems much closer to a refrence to  Honor, ie, a Broken Shard... but I dunno how that works. 

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I'm starting to think this is Taln speaking.

When Kalak spoke of "that place of pain and fire" and "The flesh burning. The fires. The pain over and over and over..." initially I took this to mean that the Heralds finally broke because they could no longer endure repeated torture at the hands of Odium. That reeks too much of Odium being sadism incarnate. Sadism alone doesn't seem to mesh well with the nuances of the meaning of odium. Rather than Kalak dreading becoming once again the recipient of endless pain, I think instead he dreaded once more becoming a person who must mete out endless pain.

What is the most loathsome thing one can do to someone sworn to protect others? Twist the oath so that, in order to uphold it, one must commit terrible atrocities against a small number in order to protect the greater number.

 

 

 

 

I really like that thought, But I always thought this was from Travangian's perspective. Mainly, because he's literally bleeding people out to hear the death quotes and believes the evil he does is in the best interest of humanity. 

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That's definitely an interesting idea, and it could be true. However, at least one death vision seems to be directly from the point of view of Kaladin. So, to me at least, it seems kind of unlikely.

 

Perhaps they are an oracle type vision, we know Cultivation was good at them, and if there are cultivation spren associated with the KR, I suppose its fair to say she is too. Perhaps he is receiving visions of what needs to happen in order to prepare for the coming desolations and is sending them to Roshar.

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I don't know if someone already mentioned this, but it's described many times that the thunderclasts are made out of stone/freed themselves out of stone - even stated outside of the death cries. 
Apparently that's kind of a big deal .. and you know that the Shin think stones are sacred and you should not walk on them.
You could dismantle this saying that they knew what's up and were so afraid of the thunderclasts that they intentionally or accidently made up a religion out of their fear after some ages.

Edited by HydrogenAlpha
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DROPLETS

Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns

-Collected: Chachnan, 1173, 84 seconds pre-death. Subject: a cutpurse with the wasting sickness, of partial Irali descent.

---Sample here is of note. References the shards of Roshar, and mentions a "Boken one", possibly Odium. Hints at a hidden shard yet unseen.

 

To me, I mean, obviously 3 of 16 = 3 shards of adonalsium that ruled on Roshar (Cultivation, Honor, and Odium) Through the Oathpack. What I find strange, or what comes ot mind is "Now the Broken One reigns." 

 

I wonder if it really is refrencing "Honor Reigns" but he isn't Honor any longer. Maybe Honors being Splintered has...one destroyed the Oathpack, but now Honor is Dead, litterally within the people.

 

Maybe they now need to recombine Honor? I dunno, I just don't see how "The Broken One" refers to Odium. to me it seems much closer to a refrence to  Honor, ie, a Broken Shard... but I dunno how that works. 

 

I agree with you that the 3 = Honor, Cultivation, and Odium. Especially since Shardlet convinced me that the Nightwatcher is Cultivation, I don't think there is another hidden Shard on Roshar.

 

However, I think the "Broken One" is quite clearly Odium - based on the words that the face in the highstorm said to Kaladin. This parallel is too much for me to think that there is any other conclusion. I can't find it now, but I remember seeing a WoB quote that if a Shard leaves a world where it is invested, it would rip away a piece. We know that Odium was on Roshar, went to Sel, and has now come back (or possibly on a nearby cellestial body). This could be the meaning behind the "Broken One." Or it could be much simpler - Rayse has been completely subverted by his Shard's intent; his own will has been broken.

 

I think the distinction between Honor being shattered and broken is important, and I'm really happy you mentioned the Shard being reassembled as I was just thinking about this. Perhaps it will take someone extremely honorable and powerful to fuse the Shard back together, and become a new Shardholder like Sazed. Maybe Kaladin? Dalinar? Taln? Guess we'll have to RAFO.

 

Edit: caught some typos...

Edited by duladen
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Why does it say 3 of sixteen ruled?  Did Honor, Cultivation, and Odium have a time of peace on the planet where Odium behaved himself?  I wonder what the hell must have happened for all three to have ruled for a time.  Odium seems like a  shard you know you can't just be buddies with.  

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Why does it say 3 of sixteen ruled?  Did Honor, Cultivation, and Odium have a time of peace on the planet where Odium behaved himself?  I wonder what the hell must have happened for all three to have ruled for a time.  Odium seems like a  shard you know you can't just be buddies with.

 

Well to me it means the 3 "Ruled" by the way of the Oathpact. I think the Oathpact was made so Odium could be imprissioned for some gain to Honor on the conditions that he got to do something, much in the same way that... 

mistborn spoiler

Ruin and Preservation made a deal that they would create life if Ruin could Ruin it all, in time.

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Why does it say 3 of sixteen ruled? Did Honor, Cultivation, and Odium have a time of peace on the planet where Odium behaved himself? I wonder what the hell must have happened for all three to have ruled for a time. Odium seems like a shard you know you can't just be buddies with.

3 of 16 ruled is, i think, a reference to the Big Picture in the Cosmere (and by extension nearly everything written by Mr.Sanderson)... when Adonalsium(sp?) Shattered it created 16 shards.

2 of which we saw in the Mistborn books

(I am a terrible fan... i havent read Elantris or Steelheart or any of the rest of the cosmere works)..... please be gentle....

But there are other shards present in the rest of Mr. Sandersons work. 3 of 16 i think is in reference to Honor, Cultivation and Odium.The three Shards we see on Roshar woring togetger in something that resembled civility.

Ruin and Preservation did this as well for a time..

Edit: I may or may not have been drinking.

Edited by IllNsickly
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3 of 16 ruled is, i think, a reference to the Big Picture in the Cosmere (and by extension nearly everything written by Mr.Sanderson)... when Adonalsium(sp?) Shattered it created 16 shards.

2 of which we saw in the Mistborn books

(I am a terrible fan... i havent read Elantris or Steelheart or any of the rest of the cosmere works)..... please be gentle....

But there are other shards present in the rest of Mr. Sandersons work. 3 of 16 i think is in reference to Honor, Preservation and Ruin. The three Shards we see on Roshar.

 

Steelheart isn't cosmere, it takes place on Earth.  Also Preservation and Ruin are not on Roshar, they are Scadrial's Shards.  Roshar's are Honor, Cultivation, and Odium (sort of, he's invested in Roshar but he actually resides on Braize)

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3 of 16 ruled is, i think, a reference to the Big Picture in the Cosmere (and by extension nearly everything written by Mr.Sanderson)... when Adonalsium(sp?) Shattered it created 16 shards.

2 of which we saw in the Mistborn books

(I am a terrible fan... i havent read Elantris or Steelheart or any of the rest of the cosmere works)..... please be gentle....

But there are other shards present in the rest of Mr. Sandersons work. 3 of 16 i think is in reference to Honor, Cultivation and Odium.The three Shards we see on Roshar woring togetger in something that resembled civility.

Ruin and Preservation did this as well for a time..

Edit: I may or may not have been drinking.

 Lol drinking at 8am!? Or is that just my time...

 

You're on the right track just a bit mixed up. As Weiry said, Ruin and Preservation are on a different planet. Give Elantris a read, it will give some context to the stars winking out in Dalinar's vision. Here's a good breakdown of the Cosmere and related works:

http://coppermind.net/wiki/Cosmere

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HAHA! Was 1030 pm my time.. Mountain time zone in the US. And ive been keeping an eye out for the audiobooks. I spend a lot of time driving for work, audio is the best medium for me to enjoy literature.

Okay so I don't know what time zone the post clock is on but it does not make sense. Drinking at 10:30pm is a lot more normal than 8:30am...

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  • 2 months later...

Okay, now that WoR is out, I think it's about time to do this...

xSYrvhi.jpg

Alright, so thanks to Taravangian, we now have a name for these things. They're called Death Rattles, and they're brought about my an Unmade named Moelach as it moves through one of the other two realms. During this interlude, we hear another Death Rattle, apparently now rare in the area now that Moelach is moving. The king of Jah Kaved, upon dying, says "So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life", a somewhat gloomy forecast regarding the fate of the world thanks to those who choose honor and life. The real question now is: Are these Rattles being caused intentionally? To what end? What is the price, beyond a death? And, though plenty of threads are looking at the question from many angles: How does Moelach work and what is it exactly?

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"All is withdrawn from me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds."

 

I'm surprised nobody has thought that this might refer to Dalinar.  His life was saved by Khaladin.  He is now bonded to the Stormfather, so has a connection to the storm.  Will he stand against Khaladin at some point?

 

That said, I still tend to think this is Khaladin, who will sometime protect Amaram, who is the one who killed Khaladin's promises to protect his brother and friends.

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The "All if withdrawn from me" sounds a lot like Kaladin to me. His arc is all about taking things away, and it wouldn't be very easy for that to happen to Dalinar. The storm moving for him sounds like Windrunning, and we honestly don't know what other things he can do with his windy thing. Amaram is the main person who saved his life and killed his promises, so that's where I'd look. It's in line with the latest ideal, unfortunately, to protect him.

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I would upvote you twice if I could, that is a brilliant catch! Killed promise, saved life? That's basically a dead ringer, and I mean it in the least punny way possible.

 

EDIT: Welcome to the Oldbloods, by the way. Leave your guard patch at the door.

Edited by Observer
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