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Analyzing the Death Rattles


Observer

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  • 3 weeks later...

On the Shallan thing, I wasn't really thinking about anything like that, just that the reference to the storm responding to a raised hand kind of indicates a soulcaster. I imagined that the "one who killed my promises" is Jasnah. And the one who saved her life... that was where the idle speculation was. Some unexplained nastiness happenned in the past with Shallan's family, involving the death of her father and her aquisition of a shardblade, and they appear to now possibly be "the enemy". There could be tough times ahead for Shallan involving the Ghostbloods and her brothers.

I actually think 'the one who saved her life' would be Jasnah, after all she did save Shallan from poison. If of course this is from her perspective.

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  • 4 months later...

Hey, upon rereading, I noticed this in Kaladin's delirious fever section

Chapter 38

He needed to go back and change it. But no. He was wounded, wasn’t he? He was bleeding on the ground. He was one of the fallen spearmen. He was a bridgeman from Bridge Two, betrayed by those fools in Bridge Four, who diverted all of the archers.

How dare they? How dare they?

How dare they survive by killing me!

Dude's seeing deathspren two paragraphs later. I have to wonder if this is a death cry happening for Kaladin.
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Hey, upon rereading, I noticed this in Kaladin's delirious fever section. Dude's seeing deathspren two paragraphs later. I have to wonder if this is a death cry happening for Kaladin.

 

I personally don't think so. The death cries are described to happen in the last few seconds before somebody dies, in that very moments when life leaves them. It was never told in TWoK that mortally ill people speak in a similar way (even if those could be babbling while in delirium). 

 

That paragraph you quoted seems to be a feverish dream were Kaladin sort of re-experienced that event and because he feels guilty, and thus in his dream he was a bridgeman from Bridge Two, one of those who had lots of casualties because of Bridge Four's side-carry action. 

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I personally don't think so. The death cries are described to happen in the last few seconds before somebody dies, in that very moments when life leaves them. It was never told in TWoK that mortally ill people speak in a similar way (even if those could be babbling while in delirium).

The thing is, deathspren are described as whispering things from Kaladin's PoV, and Syl is clearly doing something to keep him alive. If it weren't for magical intervention he probably *would* be a few seconds before death.

I think deathspren might even be the medium for the messages, actually. I mean they have to come from somewhere.

Edited by Phantom Monstrosity
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Hmm, interesting theory, Phantom. I like it.

EDIT:

'Observer', on 18 Sept 2012 - 19:37, said:snapback.png

HONOR IS DEAD

Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone?

-Collected on the second day of Kakash, year 1171, five seconds before death. Subject was a lighteyes woman in her third decade

Could shard of my soul be a reference to something similar to how there are bits of Preservation in people on Scadrial or how there are bits of Endowment in the people on Nalthis?
 

The ardents teach that the Almighty used to dwell in the hearts of men, so I've always taken this to refer to his death/splintering. So yes, it would be similar, but not entirely the same because when Leras died Preservation's power didn't leave the Scadrians.

Edited by Windrunner
Please don't double post, simply edit your original post. Thanks!
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I read it originally as his own thought drawn from guilt. Could definitely be him channelling thoughts stuck in Spren.

In either case, the importance was to show how easily one person's honorable intention can be turned to another's hatred.

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The thing is, deathspren are described as whispering things from Kaladin's PoV, and Syl is clearly doing something to keep him alive. If it weren't for magical intervention he probably *would* be a few seconds before death.

I think deathspren might even be the medium for the messages, actually. I mean they have to come from somewhere.

 

 

"Their voices were whispers, scratchy sounds like paper being torn." (quote from TWoK) This might mean that one must be closer to death (than Kaladin was) to understand them (Kaladin surely didn't). And Syl isn't "doing something to keep him alive." She tries to keep away the deathspren from Kaladin: 

 

That glow was so pure, so sweet. It seemed to be the glow of life itself. Whenever one of the deathspren got too close, she would charge at it, wielding her radiant blade.

The light warded them off.

 

I'm sure (gut feeling) that if she could help Kaladin actively, she would do. But that would mean she could hold and give away stormlight. But she can't do this as the following quote shows too. 

 

“Is there anything you can do?” He was so storming tired. “Something to make me stronger?”

She shook her head.

TWoK Ch. 67

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THE SHATTERED PLAINS

I’m dying aren’t I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.

-Collected on the 3rd day of Jesnan, 1172, 11 seconds pre-death. Subject was a Reshi chull trainer. Sample is of particular note.

Could it be that the person with his "head of lines" is Marsh? I thought of that today on a reread of WoK.

I assume the head of lines refers to what we used to call truthspren and we now call Cryptics. 

 

It is interesting that the dying person can see the Cryptic.

 

I wonder if seeing Shadesmar is due to the presence of the Cryptic, which we know can connect people to Shadesmar.  Dying people who do not have a cryptic around might not be able to see Shadesmar.

 

 

Interesting to note that a person totally in the physical realm can see the cognitive...

Makes you wonder how the 3 realms work together positionwise...

So: as PM's brilliant idea above suggests Kaladin is getting information from the Deathspren, the Shadesmar death rattler could be getting information from the Cryptic. 

Following on: would the deathspren have been the same ones that were present at the death of the bridgeman from Bridge 2 (which would have been days before).

Generalizing: Are the death rattles coming from an expansion of consciousness, which is affected by the near environment?  Sort of a merging with the nearest minds? 

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And Syl isn't "doing something to keep him alive." She tries to keep away the deathspren from Kaladin:

And apparently it's effective; if deathspren were just attracted to death Syl wouldn't have any reason to stab them.

Even before he gets handed some spheres, Kaladin is enduring his wounds far better than he has any right to.

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Interesting to note that 1000 days is two years, especially since during the last, I believe, two years of Gavilar's life were the visions and Elhokar has a foreboding tone when talking of Dalinar's visions. So Dalinar has less than 2 years.

Also note that symmetry is paramount. It's been 4500 years, which is 9 sets of 500 years. Notice how 500 more years would make it perfect 5000 years, or 10 sets of 500, a symmetrical set. Foreboding?

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Interesting to note that 1000 days is two years, especially since during the last, I believe, two years of Gavilar's life were the visions and Elhokar has a foreboding tone when talking of Dalinar's visions.

 

Is there any evidence that Gavilar received visions?  His wife, Navani, doesn't seem to indicate it, and if he were raving and having fits during highstorms, she would presumably have known.

Edited by hoser
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  • 1 month later...

So I just finished my reread of WoK and came across this death quote for Gadol.  It was mentioned previous in the thread but there wasn't any speculation on it.  It is said part way through chapter 17 for those who want to know.

 

They break the land Itself!  They want it, but in their rage they will destroy it.  Like the jealous man burns his rich things rather than let them be taken by his enemies! They come!

 

When I read it my first thought was that it dealt with the Shattered Plains being broken but it just didn't feel right.  Then I remembered this question:

 

Yados
Between the Parshendi and the Alethi harvesting gem-hearts, how long has it been since a Chasmfiend got to finish pupating?
Brandon Sanderson
Aha. I wondered if someone would ask that. Much like whaling in our own world, there is a big ecological price building for what is going on here. You are right to worry about this.
 
 

 

I think this death quote has to do with the environmental impact of the war on the chasmfiend population and the gemhearts they create.

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A little late, but I always did wonder why Syl would bother putting on the show of fending off the deathspren if they didn't actually do anything. It seems quite likely that they do in fact have an effect on the dying, and she was able to hold them off in some way. After all, Spren can probably interact cognitively.

 

And yes Weiry, I think that's probably what that quote means. What do you think will happen when the Chasmfiends are all gone? The war excuse will be gone, but what else?

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The environment, probably. You destroy an upper level predator like that, and all the lower level consumers that were formerly its prey quickly multiply out of control, overrunning their food supply, and then once they've exhausted it, die off. This destroys the plants that have been over-eaten and generally just wrecks the ecosystem as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened in Aimia after the lanceryn were hunted to extinction.

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There might be even more to it than that.  There's probably a good reason why the chasm fiends pupate at the top of the plateaus instead of down in the chasms where its much safer (and where they ordinarily lurk).  Given the fact that they have great big glowing gemhearts, it's not too much of a leap to figure that they're gathering Stormlight.  Why?  What do they do with the gathered Stormlight, and why do they have gemhearts to begin with?

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