Heir of the Void Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 So, I lost a bet, and I need to create an order of Knights Radiant. From scratch. Which is FUN. The Spren of this order are the Sovereignspren, and the Theme of the order is Leadership, distinct from the Leadership of the Bondsmmiths in that the Bondsmiths are like Admirals, whereas these guy would be more like the Captains of particular ships. They also serve as liaisons to Vanilla Kings and organizations, and preform the wondrous and exciting task of herding the cats known as the Knights Radiant in the direction of the enemy. They're also handy scapegoats for the other orders when things go less than well, but that's neither here nor there. Essentially, they are Radiants who specialize in being NCOs/Junior Officers, while the Bondsmiths are General Officers or Flag Officers. They also serve as skilled advisors or whatever to vanilla armies when the situation demands it. I have no idea for the Divine Attributes. In any case, I've got the Oaths worked out, mostly and they are, in no particalar order beyond the first: 1. LBDSBWJBD 2. I shall set to right the wrongs of the world. 3. I shall not deny truth, even if it is painful to me. 4. I shall lead others to create a better world. 5. I shall stand in vigil against the darkness of man. The Oaths are intentionally broad, so as to allow them to work with the other orders. On paper. Sometimes it even worked. In any case, their Surges are Gravitation and Transformation, because they are the coolest becase they are the only ones we know anything about becaue they are thematically appropriate. What I need to figure out is the mechanics for their soulcasting (And their name). Lightweavers tell their spren a truth (forcing them to confront unpleasant aspects of themselves) and Elsecallers close their eyes (sacrificing their sight while in use) to Soulcast. Sanderson says prices for magic is always good, so I'm trying to think of a good mechanic and appropriate cost for their Soulcasting? Ideas? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I don't think soulcasting is known to need much beyond a good gemstone, the surge or fabrial to facilitate it, and being persuasive enough to be able to get the stick to shut up and become fire. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pifferdoo Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Vowforgers Maybe they must have someone with them to Soulcast? Like they need that person's trust and loyalty? Or maybe something like, they need others working with them to Soulcast properly. There's the Vowforger, and his squires, and the Vowforger will be like, "Stone, air!" and everyone has to say their oaths to this one Vowforger and really believe them. Edited February 12, 2015 by Lord Pifferdoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Lightweavers don't need to tell a truth to Soulcast (Shallan had to the first time to restart her bond), and there's no signs Jasnah has to close her eyes. (Or rather, there's no signs Jasnah closes her eyes but Shallan does not.) You may be interested in the SA3 Jasnah reading. It seems that users of the Transformation Surge all do it the same way - cast their minds to Shadesmar, find a bead corresponding to what you want to change, then convince it to and give it Stormlight. As for my general thoughts on the order: the order in general, it seems very unfocused and unlike the other orders. The oaths don't share a coherent theme, and this shows in the way you don't have any attributes picked out. This might be the point, but it clashes with my understanding that each order is trying to create a certain sort of person. Each order is going to want their oaths to reflect a theme and guide each member into being a certain type of person. I'd recommend picking attributes, then modeling the oaths on them. Every Windrunner oath we've seen is based entirely on Protecting/Leading, and Shallan's truths are based very much on Creative/Honest. Perhaps you could pick a type of person you'd like your archetypal order member to be, and then extrapolate from there. You also don't have to pick a set of oaths - picking something like the Lightweavers, where they have to speak truths that are individual also works. The true requirement seems to be that there has to be some progression in the oaths/whatevers. Based on what you've said, for attributes I could see you going with something like "Guiding/Obedient", even if they're slightly contradictory and already shared by the canon orders. Someone who can guide, but be guided by those above them. (Brandon really stole all the easy obvious personality traits.) Based on this, you could go for something like these two oaths: I will show people the way. I will allow myself to be shown the way. Each spren should care about the attributes you pick, and the spren's form itself should embody their Surges. (From the result of this embodiment of Surges, you can pick an Essence too probably.) Gravity and Transformation is an interesting pair, though nothing immediately comes to mind on the spren type. Something like a floating shifting liquid orb seems workable, though it doesn't get Gravity quite right. DIfficult to brainstorm ideas on this combo. (I suspect Sanderson paired the Surges the way he did because he could think of ways to combine each pair of Surges into a basic concept, like the transforming light of Pattern or the growing/sliding vine of Wyndle.) Also a cool idea: create two new Surges! Lastly, you'll want a gem type with a color that doesn't match any other order. Brandon stole all the easy ones, but you might be able to get away with teal or something from an aquamarine. Edited February 12, 2015 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pifferdoo Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Regardless of whatever other changes take place, I think Vowforgers is a pretty epic name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir of the Void Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I think I'm going to go with Vowforgers for the name. It is pretty epic. As for the Oaths, I just not sure. I mean, I'd like to follow the canon pattern, but the problem with that is that the Bondsmith oaths proably cover than. I made them vague and unfocused to prove a mesure of guided flexibility and to decrease the probability of the whole thiing being Jossed as we learn more about the Bondsmiths. My though process went something like this: 2. I shall set to right the wrongs of the world. This is an oath thew forces the Raidant to be agressive in the destrution of evil, while simultaneously allowing them to work with other orders without oath-conflict. 3. I shall not deny truth, even if it is painful to me. This one primarly refers to self-improvemnt, accepting an overcomming the flaws. An internal manifestion of the first oath, essentially 4. I shall lead others to create a better world. This is basically the Prime Directive, and prehaps should be swaped with #3, given its importance. 5. I shall stand in vigil against the darkness of man. This is the manifestation of #2 and #3 in others. An imporant aspect of leadership is the formation of those under your command to be the best they can be. So, essentially, I think the Divine Attabuites could be Command and Mastery. Command, obviously, and Mastery because its a stong catch-all for the devlopment of good traits and allows the flexibility. Or maybe Oh. Maybe the Divine Attabiutes should be Adapable and Leading? I'm starting not to be sure anymore. For the gemstone, I was thinking Spinel might work, as the color I was invisioning for this order was a silvery-gray. As for the Spren, a Sovereignspren is to a flamespren as an Honorspren is to a Windspren. Flame reacts to gravity and is the most primitvew from of acceleromiter, and flame is also a fundamentially transformative force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir of the Void Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Now I just need to decided on a Mechanic for accessing Shadesmar. Should it just be an act of will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I don't think we know of any acts necessary to actually do that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pifferdoo Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Maybe Vowforgers can make smaller bonds between other kinds of spren, kinda like how people capture Furies in the Codex Alera series and then "piggyback" with them to Shadesmar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir of the Void Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Maybe Vowforgers can make smaller bonds between other kinds of spren, kinda like how people capture Furies in the Codex Alera series and then "piggyback" with them to Shadesmar? That sounds awesome. How would you envision that working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pifferdoo Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Well you'd need some way to get the other spren to help you Probably using Stormlight Maybe Vowforgers can 'Stormcraft' a mini-nahel bond to a spren by speaking a promise they made to someone. Or making the spren a promise, like maybe they wanted to bond with a Cryptic, they'd have to promise the Cryptic that the forger will always lie or bonding with a Highspren means always following the law. If they break these promises the spren leaves immediately, but there's no real ill effect to the Vowforger. The soveignspren could act as a kind of translator to these other spren. It would probably be in the Vowforger's best interest to bond only with semi-Cognitive spren, so the promises are a bit easier to uphold. I could see a rotspren make the Vowforger promise to never heal himself or something like that. Edited February 17, 2015 by Lord Pifferdoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir of the Void Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Do you think this would offer any benfit other than (or connected to) the ability to Soulcast, like using a semi-cognitive spreen to assist with complex tranfersions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pifferdoo Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 What if you need a certain spren to Soulcast the different 10 essences? Like a Windspren to Soulcast air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir of the Void Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 What if you need a certain spren to Soulcast the different 10 essences? Like a Windspren to Soulcast air? The problem with that is that there are a some direct comparions, but what would the Spren be to Soulcast Metal or Stone? That's why I think that 'Sprecrafting' would be better used for complex transformations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pifferdoo Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Maybe even like a combination of different spren, too, and you'd have to do a bunch of things at once to attract the right spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir of the Void Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 That could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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