Phoenix Signing 1/21

[Argent]

I agree on both accounts. I find it unlikely that Brandon is exploring a reduction in the level of innate Investiture, other than a feeling of it being an idea that doesn't quite fit. 

 

As for your other point, I was kind of hoping you would overlook the entire innate immune system I focused on the adaptive immune system because that's the one I thought of first, but you could easily and validly make the argument that Investiture boosts the innate one too / instead. Except then it becomes more difficult for me to argue my point

[Oudeis]

Few thoughts on the latest WoBs.

First, it looks like Brandon has confirmed that for Windrunners, the additional power from the Nahel bond is having a large of squires. I remember quite a few discussions attributing Kaladin's deadly fighting ability to his bond. So now this has cleared up. Windrunners get abnormal number of squires while Lightweavers get mnenomic abilities from Nahel bond.

Second, is it only me who thought Brandon was being contradictory about the common cold plaque. I mean since Rosharians have higher immunity because of Investiture, how did a large number of people fell prey to a minor infection like common cold? Does this mean that the Investiture level of Rosharians has gone down?

Third, I am wondering which Cosmere planet is so advanced medically to have knowledge about viruses since the WoB talks about Worldhoppers introducing the common cold pathogen to Roshar. Could it be Ashlyn where people get powers from illnesses? That would be interesting.

As I've shown in other threads and will link to when i get to my home computer, Kaladin's fighting skill clearly is supernatural in nature. There are associated phenomena which make it clear that it is beyond the natural. Since we now know it isn't part of his Nahel bond, despite Syl very nearly flat out saying it is, I wonder what the real explanation is.

Second, as has been brought up, Rosharan diseases as a whole aren't terribly virulent because it's just not fertile ground for them. The "cold" brought over is like unleashing a thunderclast on a herd of sheep.

Third, you seem to be assuming that the cold was brought intentionally as a weapon. I personally suspect someone simply worldhopped with the sniffles and sneezed in the Purelake without realizing the import of what he was doing.

[Titan Arum]

As I've shown in other threads and will link to when i get to my home computer, Kaladin's fighting skill clearly is supernatural in nature. There are associated phenomena which make it clear that it is beyond the natural. Since we now know it isn't part of his Nahel bond, despite Syl very nearly flat out saying it is, I wonder what the real explanation is.

I agree that it seems something else is going on with Kaladin's fighting skills. When Syl leaves him temporarily, Kaladin's fighting has noticeably gone down hill. He tries to go through those crazy "practice" motions that Bridge 4 thought was incredible the first time he showed them in the chasm, and can't do it at all. If I recall correctly, he either loses his balance or drops his spear because he can't hold onto it while it's twirling about. This seems to me that the Nahel bond should be part of the reason that he's such a good fighter. Maybe there was some misunderstanding between the questioner and Brandon?

[Wetlander]

As I've shown in other threads and will link to when i get to my home computer, Kaladin's fighting skill clearly is supernatural in nature. There are associated phenomena which make it clear that it is beyond the natural. Since we now know it isn't part of his Nahel bond, despite Syl very nearly flat out saying it is, I wonder what the real explanation is.

Nit-picking a bit here... Brandon didn't say that Kaladin's amazing fighting skills aren't part of his Nahel bond - just that the fighting skills aren't "the Windrunner Quirk*" in the way that Shallan's Memories are "the Lightweaver Quirk." I would suggest that Kaladin's skill enhancement (and this would apply to almost any battle/athletic effort) are part of the Surges. With access to Gravitation and Pressure, he has an enhanced feel for balance and movement, which improve his physical response time and his reflexes. (Probably other things, too, but that's a place to start.) So in that way, they would be part of his bond, but of the Surges, not of the Quirk.

 

*I'm using the term Quirk to denote what Brandon referred to when he said "each order has quirks that are unique to it. They are magical quirks, but it’s not necessarily a blend of the powers" (in response to the question about whether each Order has some unique ability resulting from the interaction of their two Surges). 

[Oudeis]

And there's his talk with Syl... I forget which book it's in, but he asks her point-blank, "are you why I'm so good at fighting?" and she says "Yes."

[Kipper]

And there's his talk with Syl... I forget which book it's in, but he asks her point-blank, "are you why I'm so good at fighting?" and she says "Yes."

*sigh*

Not this again. Haven't we discussed this ad nauseam already? The sheer amount of threads derailed by this topic is staggering.

[Twenty@20]

Perhaps I was a bit careless with my phrasing. When Brandon said that fighting abilities isnt the Windrunner Quirk, I took that to mean that other orders will also have exceptional fighting abilities- it isn't just unique to Windrunners.(I would expect the Skybreakers, Releasers, Stonewards, Willshapers too have supernatural fighting abilities) Of course we have Teft commenting in WoK that Stormlight perfected, enhanced any skill that a person may have. Even Syl wasn't wrong because Kaladin can take in Stormlight because of her.

Regarding the Purelake common cold plague, the wording of the WoB posted at The WoR reread on the Tor website seemed to suggest to me that the act was deliberate on the part of the Worldhoppers. I could be mistaken about that

Edited January 24, 2015 by Twenty@20

[Kipper]

Perhaps I was a bit careless with my phrasing. When Brandon said that fighting abilities isnt the Windrunner Quirk, I took that to mean that other orders will also have exceptional fighting abilities- it isn't just unique to Windrunners.(I would expect the Skybreakers, Releasers, Stonewards, Willshapers too have supernatural fighting abilities) Of course we have Teft commenting in WoK that Stormlight perfected, enhanced any skill that a person may have. Even Syl wasn't wrong because Kaladin can take in Stormlight because of her.

 

I was really responding to Oudeis's first post, just because I have seen this argument go on and on before...

 

 

 

Regarding the Purelake common cold plague, the wording of the WoB posted at The WoR reread on the Tor website seemed to suggest to me that the act was deliberate on the part of the Worldhoppers. I could be mistaken about that

Could you give me a source for that?

[WeiryWriter]

I was really responding to Oudeis's first post, just because I have seen this argument go on and on before...

 

Could you give me a source for that?

 

Post #31 of this thread...

[Kipper]

Post #31 of this thread...

*facepalm*

I HATE it when that happens!

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

Yeah I really disagree that the phrasing of that post suggests the plague was deliberate.  Brandon said it 'was introduced by Worldhoppers' but introduce merely means they were the vector by which Rosharans first encountered the common cold.  Its purely a statement of cause and effect.  There's nothing in that specific word choice that suggests any kind of intent on the part of the Worldhoppers.

Edited January 24, 2015 by ROSHtaFARian2.0

[Kipper]

They are supposed to be all non-intervention, so I agree with the above.

[Wetlander]

Zen specifically said those answers are paraphrased (at #31); without a direct quote, it's a bit pointless to try to parse too much meaning into the exact wording of answer. If anyone really, really cares, maybe someone can ask for clarification at Philly or Newnan - or maybe Peter will come a-lurking and answer for us. Personally, I would assume that it was accidental; I can't see what benefit the (in-world) 17th Shard would reap from inflicting the common cold on the people of Roshar.

[Kipper]

Zen specifically said those answers are paraphrased (at #31); without a direct quote, it's a bit pointless to try to parse too much meaning into the exact wording of answer. If anyone really, really cares, maybe someone can ask for clarification at Philly or Newnan - or maybe Peter will come a-lurking and answer for us. Personally, I would assume that it was accidental; I can't see what benefit the (in-world) 17th Shard would reap from inflicting the common cold on the people of Roshar.

Exactly, that's why I think it was accidental.

[Oudeis]

I was really responding to Oudeis's first post, just because I have seen this argument go on and on before...

 

Hey! I wasn't the first person to bring it up. Twenty did before I did, and I didn't go back farther to see if someone else brought it up even before him.

[Kipper]

Hey! I wasn't the first person to bring it up. Twenty did before I did, and I didn't go back farther to see if someone else brought it up even before him.

It really doesn't matter. I just wanted to nip it in the bud before you got started again. Or anybody else, for that matter. I am sick and tired of that debate. It really doesn't even matter.

No offense though.

[Curiosity]

Has anyone else noticed that sentient BioChromatic entities (whether organic or inorganic) consume Investiture? Inspired by the fact that both Vasher and Nightblood can survive on Stormlight. 

[Kipper]

Has anyone else noticed that sentient BioChromatic entities (whether organic or inorganic) consume Investiture? Inspired by the fact that both Vasher and Nightblood can survive on Stormlight.

Yes, and I thunk and thunk about a possible theory relating to it, but I couldn't quite connect the dots.

[skaa]

Has anyone else noticed that sentient BioChromatic entities (whether organic or inorganic) consume Investiture? Inspired by the fact that both Vasher and Nightblood can survive on Stormlight.

Here is my theory as to why they need to consume Investiture.

 

To summarize: A BioChromatic manifestation that is actively powered by its own Breath (rather than a Breath that is still owned by someone else) is a form of unstable Investiture because it goes against Endowment's Intent of Investing the other rather than the self. A Returned's Divine Breath, for example, actively works on keeping the Returned alive; this eventually weakens the Divine Breath's bond with the Returned, who will die the moment the bond breaks. The Returned needs to acquire further Investiture to repair the bond. This is usually done by acquiring another Breath to do the repair, a process that is in itself another powerful "Self-Awakening", and so the acquired Breath detaches as soon as the Divine Breath's bond is repaired.

 

It can be argued that Nightblood already owns the Breaths he has, since nobody can take those Breaths via "Your Breath to mine", and so the strange effects he manifests is a form of Self-Awakening. Hence the need to consume Investiture.

 

What's interesting is that Stormlight itself is usually not a very stable form of Investiture because in most cases it leaks away (though we still need to see if full Knights Radiant really can hold Stormlight indefinitely). Apparently it's usable enough for Vasher and Nightblood's purposes.

Edited January 24, 2015 by skaa

[Bean]

I was the one who asked about the Double misting and I wanted to clarify Brandon's answer. For reference I asked: If a person took lerasium and alloyed it with Iron and steel then consumed them both at the same time, would they be able to burn exactly two metals? His answer was "Theoretically, yes. Because they were using Lerasium." He said it was because it overwrites sDNA. I asked something about if they were taken separately and he said they would then only have one Metal.

[WeiryWriter]

I was the one who asked about the Double misting and I wanted to clarify Brandon's answer. For reference I asked: If a person took lerasium and alloyed it with Iron and steel then consumed them both at the same time, would they be able to burn exactly two metals? His answer was "Theoretically, yes. Because they were using Lerasium." He said it was because it overwrites sDNA. I asked something about if they were taken separately and he said they would then only have one Metal.

 

Huh, that really doesn't make any sense to me based on my understanding of metallurgy, when you alloy something it's a different metal (I can't really explain my issue with this well...).  I don't see why Brandon changed his mind on this.

[Oudeis]

Wait so... do you mean if you took one bead of lerasium-and-steel and one bead of lerasium-and-iron? Or one bead of lerasium-and-iron-and-steel?

[Moogle]

Huh, if you can make a lerasium+steel+iron alloy... that would explain this old WoB:

17th Shard
Are there a limited amount of atium and lerasium alloys for each metal?

Brandon Sanderson
Hmm, yes…I suppose there would be but there are…

17TH SHARD
More than sixteen?

BRANDON SANDERSON
Yeah, way more than sixteen.

17TH SHARD
Oh wow. Okay. That's fascinating. More than sixteen and less than infinite.

BRANDON SANDERSON
Yes.
(source)

 

Of course, someone asked him once if there were around 50 Allomantic metals and he said nearly. If you could make alloys with any combination of regular Allomantic metals and God metals, assuming you can only do lerasium + any combination of regular metals, atium + any combo, and harmonium + any combo, there'd be easily... according to Wolfram Alpha, 196605 combinations. Of course, it's unclear if lerasium + all the metals would be any different than just lerasium...

Edited January 24, 2015 by Moogle

[Oudeis]

As Weiry pointed out, I'm not sure you can make an alloy of iron and steel... that'd be like saying you can mix pure water with saline and get something other than saline. Except not really because of the chemical changes, which really only muddy the waters even more... basically this is the inversion of a David analogy, it's neither humorously expressed nor technically accurate. Still, if anyone smart enough to figure out what I mean happens by, perhaps they can explain it better.

[skaa]

I guess it's a PAFO.