Steelheart vs. Prof [Firefight spoilers included]

[Lightning]

Who would win between a snapped Prof and Steelheart?  I supposed Prof would just try to squeeze Steelheart to death.  But I doubt that the forcefield would actually do any direct damage.  Does Steelheart need to breath?  If so, then Prof would win quite handily.

 

Since Prof's forcefield was able to redirect the Obliteration bomb, I imagine it could also redirect Steelheart's energy blast if need be.  So it seems like Prof could at least neutralize Steelheart for an indefinite amount of time.

 

Perhaps a better question is who would win between Obliteration and Prof?  The forcefield squeezing trick wouldn't work because Oblit would teleport away.  I suppose Oblit could set off a heat-bomb close enough to Prof that he wouldn't be able to simply redirect the energy; but Prof could simply hide inside one of his own forcefields.

 

I wonder if the Reckoners could combine an Obliteration bomb with a device built from Sourcefield's body to pass through objects, to destroy Prof.?

[RShara]

Didn't the Prof hold off Steelheart at the end of book 1?  Ultimately, if Prof doesn't know Steelheart's weakness, then Steelheart will win, because he can't be damaged at all, whilest Prof relies on his energy fields to keep himself safe.  He doesn't have precog, reincarnation, or endless energy, so eventually he would tire or make a mistake.  He does self-heal automatically, but I think Steelheart could rip him to pieces, or turn him to steel, maybe, to get around that?

Edited January 14, 2015 by RShara

[Fifth of Daybreak]

It would be a stalemate. Neither of them know the other's weakness, so it would just keep going on. Even when Steelheart thought he killed Prof, it was only temporary. Neither of them could finish the other, so I don't see a reason Steelheart could after learning Prof is even more powerful than we thought.

[vineyarddawg]

It would be a stalemate. Neither of them know the other's weakness, so it would just keep going on. Even when Steelheart thought he killed Prof, it was only temporary. Neither of them could finish the other, so I don't see a reason Steelheart could after learning Prof is even more powerful than we thought.

 

Yeah, eventually one of them would get bored/too frustrated and just fly away. 

 

And we know we only saw a small fraction of Prof's power in the Steelheart fight because his corruption didn't get nearly as bad as it did when he handled the Oblito-bomb.  I don't think he'd be able to kill Steelheart even at full power, though, because Steelheart's invulnerability would probably withstand Prof's forcefields.  (Unless Prof didn't fear Steelheart at all, though, in which case Steelheart go bye-bye.)

[Edgedancer]

From what we have seen Steelheart shouldn´t even be able to scratch Phaedrus or his forcefields, given that he could stop the charged Oblitaeration bomb without even appearing tired, and I would judge his powers as more versatile and more useful than Steelheart´s arsenal.

Steelheart couldn´t harm him, he couldn´t run away and he couldn´t even inconvienence a Pheadrus going all out and let´s be honest, would you fear someone incapable of opposing you in any way?

[Arcanist Lupus]

That's actually a really good point.  Phaedrus would trigger Steelheart's weakness by accident.

 

In their first fight, Prof was scared of Steelheart - scared that Steelheart would force him to go full Epic.  Now that he's reached that point, he has nothing left to fear.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Arcanist Lupus

[Plastic Misting]

If the stalemate lasted for an extended period of time Prof would get bored and no longer fear Steelheart. Then he could win easily.

[Mckeedee123]

Steelheart has no way to escape from one of Prof's forcefield bubbles. All Prof would have to do is trap him for a few days and Steelheart would die of dehydration. Prof would win handily. The only reason Prof didn't do that in book 1 is that strong forcefields (not to mention healing himself instantly) are very aggravating for him and to trap Steelheart he would certainly have had to use a pretty powerful one.

Edited January 14, 2015 by mckeedee123

[kuchapel]

Steelheart has no way to escape from one of Prof's forcefield bubbles. All Prof would have to do is trap him for a few days and Steelheart would die of dehydration. Prof would win handily. The only reason Prof didn't do that in book 1 is that strong forcefields (not to mention healing himself instantly) are very aggravating for him and to trap Steelheart he would certainly have had to use a pretty powerful one.

does steelheart need to eat/breath? Though it would make sence....when was the last time your grilled cheese(food)intended to harm you? but not eating it would be bad for you.

[Observer]

Steelheart has virtually no way of hurting Phaedrus. If it came to a fight where neither could flee, Steelheart is far and away the most likely to leave in a body bag, if at all. Between the utter contempt and hatred that might eventually erase all fear to simply starving him out, Phaedrus has a lot of options. Also, Steelheart has impenetrable skin. Does that mean gas-based or internal weaponry could work? If so, force-fields inside of his body might be able to harm him. Even at a draw, Steelheart would still be losing.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

You know, impenetrable skin might not protect him from Prof's compression fields. It's not piercing the skin, so it could be a way around that particular defensive power.

[Voidus]

I'd probably give the win to Prof for just outlasting the situation but that's less winning a fight than just starving Steelheart out, keep in mind though that even trapped in a forcefield he could potentially still manipulate the winds so Prof would probably need need to shield himself as well.
Conversely I think Prof vs. Nightwielder would end very badly for prof.

[natc]

You know, impenetrable skin might not protect him from Prof's compression fields. It's not piercing the skin, so it could be a way around that particular defensive power.

They've probably tried explosions against him by now too, so clearly massive bursts of pressure and force don't do much to him either.

What if you generate a field in his mouth then expand it until his brains are crushed against his own skull? Then again, surely they've tried shooting him in the mouth while he boasts . . .

[Fifth of Daybreak]

They've probably tried explosions against him by now too, so clearly massive bursts of pressure and force don't do much to him either.

What if you generate a field in his mouth then expand it until his brains are crushed against his own skull? Then again, surely they've tried shooting him in the mouth while he boasts . . .

 

The damage from a primary blast injury is mostly done to hollow organs (lungs, bowels, etc.) That sort of overpressure trauma works better on air than in water, which is why those organs that contain air are more easily affected. It wouldn't be the same type of force caused by explosions that would be the cause of death in this instance, but rather, a change in constant pressure across the whole body. An explosion usually causes some sort of rupture of tissue due to the massive changes in pressure in short burst, whereas the forcefield wouldn't necessarily have to cause any tissue rupture in order to work. In fact, he might even be able to use his force fields to induce a state similar to the Bends, if he compresses the amount of air left in a forcefield, and changes the air pressure. That alone might be a way to kill Steelheart, if the compression trick didn't work.

 

Prof starts by making an overly large forcefield over Steelheart, then compresses it as much as possible. That changes the air pressure inside the field, increasing it, which allows the inert gasses to compress and form bubbles in his blood stream, if he's held in in long enough. Then, when the field is released, those bubbles decompress and form air emboli in his body, which gets around the whole impenetrable skin problem when the bubble gets lodged in a small artery and blocks it. 

As for expanding his field, that would definitely rely on breaking the skin, so that's a no-go.

[Voidus]

I think that with Steelheart 'impenetrable skin' might be a bit of an oversimplification, otherwise I seriously doubt he'd be known as the strongest Epic in the Fractured states. I think it's more like he has an immutable body, his bodies cells unable to be changed by outside forces in any way. If there was a way to kill Steelheart outside of his weakness I think David would have found and suggested it at some point no matter how difficult.

[Edgedancer]

I think that with Steelheart 'impenetrable skin' might be a bit of an oversimplification, otherwise I seriously doubt he'd be known as the strongest Epic in the Fractured states. I think it's more like he has an immutable body, his bodies cells unable to be changed by outside forces in any way. If there was a way to kill Steelheart outside of his weakness I think David would have found and suggested it at some point no matter how difficult.

Well, Steelheart didn´t even flinch when Prof´s sword hit his face hard enough to dent the steel, so that´s a good indication it´s more than just "can´t scratch his skin."

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Regalia's cancer shows that Epics aren't immortal. They age, get diseases, so Steelheart should be able to be killed through starvation, asphyxia, or some other non-traumatic means.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Fifth of Daybreak

[Voidus]

Regalia didn't have any form of Prime Invincibility though.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Regalia didn't have any form of Prime Invincibility though.

The only epic we've seen so far with a Prime Invincibility that would protect from disease or metabolic disturbances is Prof and his healing. Steelheart's PI seems especially geared to handle only traumatic injury.

[Voidus]

The only epic we've seen so far with a Prime Invincibility that would protect from disease or metabolic disturbances is Prof and his healing. Steelheart's PI seems especially geared to handle only traumatic injury.

Well we know virtually nothing about it and I can't believe that no one's tried to poison him yet so I suspect there's at least a bit more to it than we know.

While aging and possibly even cancer may eventually claim even Epics like Steelheart that's not really the same as asphyxiation. Both aging and cancer are caused by internal errors in cell duplication resulting in mutations which eventually accumulate to damaging effect. Asphyxiation is rather more sudden and more importantly is still external, if Steelhearts invulnerability extended to the cellular level it may even be impossible to starve or asphyxiate him. In fact I believe it's even mentioned that Epics age slower so they may even have an in-built resistance to that.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Well we know virtually nothing about it and I can't believe that no one's tried to poison him yet so I suspect there's at least a bit more to it than we know.

While aging and possibly even cancer may eventually claim even Epics like Steelheart that's not really the same as asphyxiation. Both aging and cancer are caused by internal errors in cell duplication resulting in mutations which eventually accumulate to damaging effect. Asphyxiation is rather more sudden and more importantly is still external, if Steelhearts invulnerability extended to the cellular level it may even be impossible to starve or asphyxiate him. In fact I believe it's even mentioned that Epics age slower so they may even have an in-built resistance to that.

Hmmm looking back through evidence seems to support that.

. . .oh, and he’s utterly impervious to bullets, edged weapons, fire, radiation, blunt trauma, suffocation, and explosions.

Steelheart Chapter 13 Page 105

So he does have some sort of metabolic resistance, for him to survive without oxygen. That almost seems to me like he does have two self preserving powers, like Prof.

[Voidus]

Hmmm looking back through evidence seems to support that.

So he does have some sort of metabolic resistance, for him to survive without oxygen. That almost seems to me like he does have two self preserving powers, like Prof.

I don't even remember that quote   

I wouldn't be surprised if he did, Steelheart and Prof are in a league of their own, by far the two most powerful Epics in the Fractured States, with Regalia and Obliteration coming in a distant third and fourth.

[EvilNuff]

I don't even remember that quote   

I wouldn't be surprised if he did, Steelheart and Prof are in a league of their own, by far the two most powerful Epics in the Fractured States, with Regalia and Obliteration coming in a distant third and fourth.

 

I think a strong argument could be made for Megan being up there really high.  She can alter reality...that could potentially be the strongest power of all the epics.  Obviously this depends on how much her strength waxes and wanes per her comments.

[Edgedancer]

Well we know virtually nothing about it and I can't believe that no one's tried to poison him yet so I suspect there's at least a bit more to it than we know.

While aging and possibly even cancer may eventually claim even Epics like Steelheart that's not really the same as asphyxiation. Both aging and cancer are caused by internal errors in cell duplication resulting in mutations which eventually accumulate to damaging effect. Asphyxiation is rather more sudden and more importantly is still external, if Steelhearts invulnerability extended to the cellular level it may even be impossible to starve or asphyxiate him. In fact I believe it's even mentioned that Epics age slower so they may even have an in-built resistance to that.

They do age slower. David mentions it when Steelheart appear to face them in the arena.

What also might be of note, is that Steelheart also bocks completely magical effects like Deathpoint´s pointing of death, so his PI definetly isn´t limit to the purely physical. Weird though that they mention radiation and suffocation but not poison.

 

I don't even remember that quote   

I wouldn't be surprised if he did, Steelheart and Prof are in a league of their own, by far the two most powerful Epics in the Fractured States, with Regalia and Obliteration coming in a distant third and fourth.

Depends on what you scale. While Steelheart has more durability, Obliteration outscales him on damage potential by far. Thanks to his ability to charge.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Edgedancer

[Voidus]

Depends on what you scale. While Steelheart has more durability, Obliteration outscales him on damage potential by far. Thanks to his ability to charge.

The charging is the problem though, Steelheart and Regalia can both producing city-wide effects instantaneously although Steelhearts is far less damaging than the others' but one of his energy blasts disintegrated most of a building so I think in the time that Obliteration was charging that Steelheart could level a large portion of a city too.