Cosmere MBTI

[maxal]

There was a thread on the matter a while back...

 

 

 

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/22511-cosmere-mbti/

 

Here are a few..

 

Adolin: Definitely ESFJ. No question here. Abundantly talked about in the above thread.

Shallan: INFP. We discussed it quite a lot and we reached this conclusion.

Kaladin: I have to go back to the thread for Kaladin... INFP, I think was the conclusion.

Renarin: We did not discuss him, but he sure is no E. My guess: INTJ

Dalinar: Not fully discussed... ESTJ or ISTJ or ISFJ... Hard to tell. My guess is he changed over the years.

[Kipper]

I don't really see Renarin as INTJ. He doesn't have the manipulative, plotting, grandmaster mentality of the typical INTJ, as best as I can recall. But as you say, definitely not an Exxx.

[Mckeedee123]

I think Kaladin would be on the introverted side of things.

 

Which is why I think of him as an INTJ rather than an ENTJ. Looking at it on PersonalityPage, ENTJ might fit him somewhat better than INTJ, but I think that Kaladin genuinely prefers being alone. Spending time with his men is viewed as a sort of chore that he does to keep their morale up.

[Mckeedee123]

I don't really see Renarin as INTJ. He doesn't have the manipulative, plotting, grandmaster mentality of the typical INTJ, as best as I can recall. But as you say, definitely not an Exxx.

 

I don't have a manipulative, plotting, grandmaster mentality either, but that doesn't mean I'm not INTJ. 

 

That being said, INTJ's are usually pretty assertive when someone brings up something they actually care about, and Renarin is not really very assertive at all.

[maxal]

I don't really see Renarin as INTJ. He doesn't have the manipulative, plotting, grandmaster mentality of the typical INTJ, as best as I can recall. But as you say, definitely not an Exxx.

 

Manipulative, plotting and grandmaster? Is that a true depiction of a INTJ? I tend to see them as quiet eternal devil's advocate: never believing in anything, never taking anything for granted, always doubting every single source of information. Trust a INTJ to point out the fallacies in your argumentation: they just never give up.

 

Renarin definitely is a I and I'd wager he is a J. He seems orderly. He definitely is a T and not a F. So I-TJ... ISTJ? A comment type in engineers.

 

 

Which is why I think of him as an INTJ rather than an ENTJ. Looking at it on PersonalityPage, ENTJ might fit him somewhat better than INTJ, but I think that Kaladin genuinely prefers being alone. Spending time with his men is viewed as a sort of chore that he does to keep their morale up.

 

We had establish in the old thread Kaladin definitely was a I, probably a N, surely a F and definitely a P. So INFP seems like the most probable. He is I because he recharges his batteries while being alone as opposed to Adolin who always needs to be around people (for example). He is a N because he is more intuitive than sensing, but this one is up for grab. He is a Fi (introverted F). This one is harder to gauge, I would need to go back to the previous discussion. He is a P because he has little respect for order and rules, a typical P. 

[Mckeedee123]

Manipulative, plotting and grandmaster? Is that a true depiction of a INTJ? I tend to see them as quiet eternal devil's advocate: never believing in anything, never taking anything for granted, always doubting every single source of information. Trust a INTJ to point out the fallacies in your argumentation: they just never give up.

 

Renarin definitely is a I and I'd wager he is a J. He seems orderly. He definitely is a T and not a F. So I-TJ... ISTJ? A comment type in engineers.

 

 

 

We had establish in the old thread Kaladin definitely was a I, probably a N, surely a F and definitely a P. So INFP seems like the most probable. He is I because he recharges his batteries while being alone as opposed to Adolin who always needs to be around people (for example). He is a N because he is more intuitive than sensing, but this one is up for grab. He is a Fi (introverted F). This one is harder to gauge, I would need to go back to the previous discussion. He is a P because he has little respect for order and rules, a typical P. 

 

Except that INTJ's absolutely do believe in things. That's what the Judging means. We want to have concrete answers, we're just always searching for a more objective way see them.

 

As for Kaladin:

 

Definitely an IN, yes, but I'm going to argue that he's an INxJ instead of an INxP because he does actually have a strong drive towards order and efficiency. He values structure because it makes things work better (this is mentioned multiple times in WoR.) The thing is that he's found a pattern he sees consistently that he's turned into a larger conclusion: that the Lighteyes/Darkeyes system is corrupt. His ability to see things objectively has led him to reject it.

 

So between INTJ and INFJ... Well, he's definitely not an INFJ. INFJ's are kind of the opposite of INTJ in some ways because they genuinely care about peoples' emotions and put a lot of time into figuring out people (as opposed to spending their time thinking about systems and patterns of behavior.) They're sort of nurterers in that way.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Mckeedee123

[maxal]

Except that INTJ's absolutely do believe in things. That's what the Judging means. We want to have concrete answers, we're just always searching for a more objective way see them.

 

 

I did not mean it in a pejorative way. I rather meant INTJ I do know have the tendency to never take an argument for granted and to always look out for fallacies in any one brought forward. The fact a valuable source said it does not add to the argument nor does anything relating to personal experience. It is far from being a bad thing, but it is true NJ and SJ types can often clash due to a lack of mutual understanding.

 

 

As for Kaladin:

 

Definitely an IN, yes, but I'm going to argue that he's an INxJ instead of an INxP because he does actually have a strong drive towards order and efficiency. He values structure because it makes things work better (this is mentioned multiple times in WoR.) The thing is that he's found a pattern he sees consistently that he's turned into a larger conclusion: that the Lighteyes/Darkeyes system is corrupt. His ability to see things objectively has led him to reject it.

 

So between INTJ and INFJ... Well, he's definitely not an INFJ. INFJ's are kind of the opposite of INTJ in some ways because they genuinely care about peoples' emotions and put a lot of time into figuring out people (as opposed to spending their time thinking about systems and patterns of behavior.) They're sort of nurterers in that way.

 

I think the best way to sprout the discussion on Kaladin is to go back to page 5 where it was last left. Some very good arguments on Kaladin's personality type were made there.

[maxal]

Necro thread!!! but anyone willing to discuss Jasnah? I saw a big headed argument on Tor.com. I thought it'd be fun to do our own 

[AndrewStirlingMacDonald]

I'm rereading TSA right now, and I'd love to discuss Jasnah! What specifically, though? She's always seemed a pretty straightforward INTJ to me.

[maxal]

I agree she is, but having read the entire debate on the Tor.com forum, I feel there is more to discuss. INTJ are extremely cerebral individuals with strong thinking capacities, can they truly work strongly enough with their low emotive side to be call passionate, a word I feel is reserved for naturally emotive persons? Can you INTJ express passion? Or is it a different kind of passion? If so, is it right to still call it passion as passion refers to strong emotions which seems counter-intuitive for INTJ...

 

Overall, I do agree she is INTJ, but I am wondering about the implication of being INTJ. I have always seen her as an individual on a purely intellectual quest devoid of any emotions (the quest not the person) which would render the term passionate inappropriate.

 

Thoughts on the matter? There are a lot of INTJ individuals on the forum. Perhaps they can shed some lights onto the matter. Coming from a very ESFJ background, I have a hard time picturing INTJ as passionate, but it may be my bias towards strong well felt emotions speaking.

[DreamEternal]

I agree she is, but having read the entire debate on the Tor.com forum, I feel there is more to discuss. INTJ are extremely cerebral individuals with strong thinking capacities, can they truly work strongly enough with their low emotive side to be call passionate, a word I feel is reserved for naturally emotive persons? Can you INTJ express passion? Or is it a different kind of passion? If so, is it right to still call it passion as passion refers to strong emotions which seems counter-intuitive for INTJ...

Overall, I do agree she is INTJ, but I am wondering about the implication of being INTJ. I have always seen her as an individual on a purely intellectual quest devoid of any emotions (the quest not the person) which would render the term passionate inappropriate.

Thoughts on the matter? There are a lot of INTJ individuals on the forum. Perhaps they can shed some lights onto the matter. Coming from a very ESFJ background, I have a hard time picturing INTJ as passionate, but it may be my bias towards strong well felt emotions speaking.

While I am an INTP, not an INTJ, I can say that Thinking types can indee be passionate. It is just that while F types feel all their emotions fully and find more or less productive ways to deal with them, T types are less likely to have emotional responses to everything, since they, especialy NTs, tend to be slightly detached from day to day life and are less likely to form attachments to things they consider uninportant, like a favorite clothe or an old memorabilia.

Stronger emotional responses, if seem as counterproductive, are generaly put behind a dam, since T types are bad at dealing with them immediataly, generaly prefering as little interference in their rational thoughts. But this dam is not perfect, and if we try to keep it up for too long we lash out and break down.

Emotions seem as acceptable, useful or generaly good are displayed normaly, even if in a different fashion than F types. One can be passionate about their mission, as long as it does not prove self destructive by getting in the way of its fuffilment.

It is not that T types don't feel, but they deal with their feelings by trying to supress them when they don't let they think straight, while F types prefer to just deal with their feelings as they come. If everythink goes alright, Ts can surpress their feelings when they need and later let go without great stress while Fs can deal with their feelings without them taking over. When things go bad, Ts can have sudden emotional outbursts and strain themselves greatly by trying to plug the holes of the proverbial dam with no sucess, while Fs reject all rational thought that does not conform with their emotions.

Just what I think, I am by no means an especialist and may be completely wrong.

Edited August 29, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[maxal]

While I am an INTP, not an INTJ, I can say that Thinking types can indee be passionate. It is just that while F types feel all their emotions fully and find more or less productive ways to deal with them, T types are less likely to have minor emotional responses, since they, especialy NTs, tend to be slightly detached from day to day life.

Stronger emotional responses, if seem as counterproductive, are generaly put behind a dam, since T types are bad at dealing with them immediataly, generaly prefering as little interference in their rational thoughts. But this dam is not perfect, and if we try to keep it up for too long we lash out and break down.

Emotions seem as acceptable, useful or generaly good are displayed normaly, even if in a different fashion than F types.

 

That's interesting. Coming from a ESFJ background I never bottled up emotions behind any dam: they pour out as they come, with some unfortunate results. As a result I do think they (ESFJ or like-wise types) may appear more attached to their ideas or work than INTJ which appear, from my personal perspective (which is imperfect as any personal perspective), detached. It is an interesting exercise of comparison.

 

In the case of the Jasnah character, I do get exactly the same vibe as when I interface with my INTJ colleagues. I do not get much in terms of emotion to the point where she appears completely detached from any of them. It does not mean she is, but without a POV, it is very hard for me to read in any passion at all.

 

Then comes the argument as to what is passion and how do we define it. The google description does present several synonyms such as ardent, heated, emotional and heartfelt which I cannot in good conscience link to Jasnah. So where am I wrong in my reading?

[DreamEternal]

Jasnah is passionate about her scholarship, ardent in her defense of her beliefs, and is capable of emotional breakdowns, as seem when Shallan saw her before the night of her "death". In the first two cases, her passion manifests itself in her determination and exagerated sureness, and in the last we see the aftermatch of the supression of her fear. I do not believe it is realy possible to show determination without being passionate about something.

Edited August 30, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[Eccentric Hero]

Let's revive this.

 

No one else has put Renarin as an INTP, but I do.

Here's why:

He is obviously introverted. Everyone agrees that he is intuitive. He seems thinking with his interest in hearing about fabrials.

I put him as P because he can't decide to go into artentia. His inability to choose a career path seems very much P to me.

I am curious as to what @FeatherWriter thinks about this.

(Please note that while I consider myself to be an INTP, I do not relate much to Renarin's character.)

 

Vasher as INTP

This one might be biased.

Vasher has consistently shown introverted behavior. He has intuitive ideas. He has a lot of grip on his thoughts (but not much grip on emotions.) He is adaptive and is not shown to do very much planning.

[Darkness Ascendant]

@Eccentric Hero

Thanks for reviving this. Last year, when this came around, I snooped about a bit, but never took part as much as I wanted to. I recently did some personality tests from different sites.

https://www.16personalities.com/enfp-personality stated me as a Campaigner (ENFP-A). I'm more extroverted, Intuitive, I "feel" more, and I am Prospective as well as a tad bit assertive. Haha, I'm like Robert Downey Jr, Will Smith, Robin WIlliams and Drew Barrymore\

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp stated me as  ENTP, I'm more extrovertive,Intuitive, Thinking and percieving

Haha, and http://www.my-personality-test.com/personality-type/?profileid=8294271984402003800 class me as INTP, like Einstein, Jimmy Wales Charlotte Gainsbourg and Tina Fey.

XD

 

[DreamEternal]

EDIT: I hate how the new site doens't let me split quotes. Totally broke my post.

Edited June 24, 2016 by DreamEternal

[maxal]

Ah the Cosmere MBTI thread. I love this thread. 

Renarin definitely is an INT-J or P, but I would classify him as INTJ as opposed to INTP. Renarin just seems orderly and organized, but I have little arguments for it. I personally attribute his difficulties in finding a career to rigidity related to his autism more than a personality quirk: he just sees one possibility. It makes more narrow-minded than others, which is a trait he shares with his father.

INTP doesn't sound like Renarin: he never tries out ideas on others for the shake of seeing how they would react. In fact, he is doing the complete opposite: he prefers to be completely sure of his words before saying them. 

INTJ are my complete polar opposite and I have, on average, difficulties interfacing with individuals within this personality type. Or perhaps it is I have several terrible experience with some which I have unjustly associated with personality types. I, of course, do not relate very well with characters such as Renarin or Jasnah. 

Edit: This last test gave me ENTP, a weird one for me. I typically test either ESFJ or ESFP depending on how much importance the test puts on cleanliness of the workspace... Seriously, my desk is a mess.

Edited June 24, 2016 by maxal

[FeatherWriter]

11 hours ago, Eccentric Hero said:

I am curious as to what @FeatherWriter thinks about this.

(Please note that while I consider myself to be an INTP, I do not relate much to Renarin's character.)

So, I'll admit straight up that I'm pretty terrible at just assigning MBTI types to characters. I know my own (INFP) but it's often difficult for me to choose the letters, even for characters that I know well.

Therefore, I decided to cheat. I took the sorting test while answering as I feel Renarin would have.

Results were fairly conclusive: INFJ. This website calls it "The Advocate." The question seems to come down to whether or not Renarin's a J or a P, but in testing, the results gave me 85% Judging. He seems to me to be a person who is far more in favor of planning and structure, whereas Adolin is far more 'go with the flow' Perceiving.

This description paragraph in particular struck me:

Quote

Really though, it is most important for Advocates to remember to take care of themselves. The passion of their convictions is perfectly capable of carrying them past their breaking point and if their zeal gets out of hand, they can find themselves exhausted, unhealthy and stressed. This becomes especially apparent when Advocates find themselves up against conflict and criticism – their sensitivity forces them to do everything they can to evade these seemingly personal attacks, but when the circumstances are unavoidable, they can fight back in highly irrational, unhelpful ways.

Sound like a certain duel or chasmfiend attack to anyone? Renarin catches flack from people sometimes for trying to help in ways that do more damage than good, and that description above pretty much nails it.

Advocates are also noted to be exceptionally good at "seeing through dishonesty and disingenuous motives, Advocates step past manipulation and sales tactics and into a more honest discussion" which amused me for our Truthwatcher.

[CaptainRyan]

@FeatherWriter that was incredibly clever to answer as you think Renarin would! I really like that! I would throw an upvote your way but I have apparently hit my quota for the day even though I just signed on a few minutes ago... Anyone want to help a fellow Sharder out and pass an upvote to Feather for me?

[FeatherWriter]

Just now, CaptainRyan said:

@FeatherWriter that was incredibly clever to answer as you think Renarin would! I really like that! I would throw an upvote your way but I have apparently hit my quota for the day even though I just signed on a few minutes ago... Anyone want to help a fellow Sharder out and pass an upvote to Feather for me?

It was more difficult than I would have thought, actually, despite the fact I'm rather obsessive about him. I'm going to lay the blame for that at the feet of someone who decided we haven't yet needed any Renarin POV in canon. My kingdom for a Renarin POV, honestly.

Brandon, ya killin' me.

[maxal]

2 hours ago, FeatherWriter said:

Results were fairly conclusive: INFJ. This website calls it "The Advocate." The question seems to come down to whether or not Renarin's a J or a P, but in testing, the results gave me 85% Judging. He seems to me to be a person who is far more in favor of planning and structure, whereas Adolin is far more 'go with the flow' Perceiving.

Adolin is a text book classic ESFJ. I do not read him as perceptive: he based himself too strongly onto his personal experience to move forward. He needs to experience things first hand if he is to understand them which is why, I suspect, he does very poorly into what passes as an educational system in Alethkar. Not being able to write and being force to retain lessons from memory only, learning glyphs while not being allowed to draw them would be a serious hindrance for someone who needs to get his hand dirty to assimilate a lesson. Reversely, it makes him perfect for sports and swordsmanship. It is probably why ESFJ tend to not do well into school, on average, though they be very focused on performance. If this performance passes by school grades: they will do extraordinarily well. How they are perceived by others is very important, too important.

Just like Dalinar, Adolin needs rules, guidelines. He needs things to be predictable, he adapts poorly to change he cannot control (visions, Radiants, Urithiru), but he adapts marvelously to events he has enough experience to tackle (duels, battles). He is more heavily onto the side of traditions as opposed to being the bearer of new opinion. He doesn't have a rebellious mind nor is he a trend setter (he likes fashion, but he wants to wear what everyone else is wearing): he is a follower who wants to do as everyone else is doing. He isn't exactly close-minded (he compensate this by being emphatic and compassionate), but he yearns to be loved, to be accepted and to do so, he tries his very best to be exactly what people expect him to be. He is very unlike Kaladin in this matter.

What can be perceives as "go with the flow" is the fact he acts on emotions more than on reason. It isn't he can't be thoughtful, insightful or rational, he can, but whenever emotions get too strong, he can't think rationally until he process the said emotion. Being an extroverted feeler, his emotions tend to be all over the place, which is a very uncharacteristic behavior for Alethi. He is very expressive, he hides his feelings very badly.

Very typical of ESFJ personality types. There is a great duality into this type... you can either be very, very rational and concentrated just as you can jump of the roof because something unplanned infiltrated within your carefully laid out plan you crafted with the single purpose to avoid those too strong emotive response. This is something Adolin has in common with his father, but he is more easily unbalanced.

I think the whole family are "J-types" and while Dalinar and Adolin also are S-type, Renarin and probably his mother are N-type. Mother probably was an ENFP or an ENFJ which would be why someone like Navani couldn't find a single quality in her other than "she was nice".

[FeatherWriter]

Aaaaand there we go. As Maxal is the Adolin expert, I'll defer to her expertise. I did warn that I'm really bad at assigning MBTI, right? Heh.

[AndrewStirlingMacDonald]

Very happy to see this thread resurrected. I'm close to [finally] finishing the Wheel of Time series - and by close I mean nearly halfway through book nine. It's taken me a good year to get to this point, but I feel confident that once I hit the Sanderson books I will fly through the end of the series. Anyway, I haven't spent much time typing Mistborn Era 2 or letting the new information from Secret History sink in and help to grow my opinions on the MBTI from Mistborn, so once I finish WOT I'm going to actually spend some time doing some typing in those books and White Sand, as well as re-reading WoR again and hopefully tracking some MBTI morsels in that as well. Excited for this summer!

[maxal]

2 minutes ago, FeatherWriter said:

Aaaaand there we go. As Maxal is the Adolin expert, I'll defer to her expertise. I did warn that I'm really bad at assigning MBTI, right? Heh.

Bah you just didn't read the whole 10 pages of discussion on the matter  I think it is easier to assign MBTI types to people we connect with more easily  Finding the right type for Shallan has been very difficult, the same goes for Kaladin. Kaladin I keep thinking he has to be a T-type because he isn't very expressive: I have a very hard time uprooting the introverted feelers, but extroverted feelers are very easy to understand, but that's because I am one myself.

I often test ESFJ, but I am not a text book classic case. I am probably oscillating in between 2-3 types: ESTJ when I am concentrated and for my career choice, ESFP when I am at a social gathering, ESFJ when huh life happens and so on. ENTP is a new one though.... it is my desk... I had to severely grade myself for organization and cleanliness.... but I am convinced both Renarin and Adolin's rooms are spot clean. These two aren't messy.... 

[Ecthelion III]

What would Sadeas be? I can't see him as anything other than IxTx.

(By the way, I'm ENFP. I don't have a J bone in my body.)