NotAnotherWit

Ok what happened to obliteration in the end?? (spoilers obviously)

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I mean David mentions that it is Obliteration's weakness because he dreams of it and then Obli explodes..so what was his weakness??

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I mean David mentions that it is Obliteration's weakness because he dreams of it and then Obli explodes..so what was his weakness??

 

By "explodes", it meant he transferred away.

He now knows how to overcome his weakness, so he thanked David and then dropped out Regalia's game.

I think he'll return in the next book, maybe as an ally to fight against Calamity.

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I don't think he just transferred away, because the explosion actually burns David, but previous teleportations did not involve any explosions.  It seemed to me that Obliteration committed suicide.

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I don't think he just transferred away, because the explosion actually burns David, but previous teleportations did not involve any explosions.  It seemed to me that Obliteration committed suicide.

 

You really didn't read carefully.

Obliteration's teleportation effect was offen described as "explodes" through the whole book.

For example, in Chapter 12, "I shot him again. I heard half a curse from his lips as he again exploded into shards of light."

 

As for why David was burned, Obliteration grabbed David's shoulders and burnt it before he said thanks and teleported away.

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Yeah, Obliteration definitely didn't get... um, obliterated. As DataLore said, he touched David and thanked him before teleporting away, and it was that touch that burned David.

 

We definitely haven't seen the last of Obliteration, I'd imagine.

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I don't think Obliteration's touch burned David at the end there.  David was already suffering from - at best - massive first degree burns.  Imagine a really bad sunburn over your entire body.  Then a guy walks up to you and grabs you by the shoulders.  It's gonna hurt a *lot*.

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You really didn't read carefully.

Obliteration's teleportation effect was offen described as "explodes" through the whole book.

For example, in Chapter 12, "I shot him again. I heard half a curse from his lips as he again exploded into shards of light."

 

As for why David was burned, Obliteration grabbed David's shoulders and burnt it before he said thanks and teleported away.

 

Good point.  But if Obliteration was touching David when he teleported, then David would have ported as well.

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I imagine that he some degree of control over it. We know that he unconciously brings things with him, but I bet if he concentrates, he can decide what things he wants to bring with him.,

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The sticky bomb suggests quite the opposite, in fact - i.e. that he has no control over what comes with him.  He had to physically remove his shirt in order to get rid of the bomb.

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By "explodes", it meant he transferred away.

He now knows how to overcome his weakness, so he thanked David and then dropped out Regalia's game.

I think he'll return in the next book, maybe as an ally to fight against Calamity.

 

I agree with this.  Although, it seemed really strange to me that Obliteration changed his mind from killing everyone to decide on working on overcoming his fears, just from David's brief and extremely vague proposition of what his theory was about Obliteration's weakness.

 

Obliteration had being using his powers consistently right before this interaction with David, he should be acting "evil," and this brief verbal explanation should have fallen on deaf ears.  I'm not liking Obliteration's exit from the story.

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As I mentioned in the other Obliteration thread, I suspect that he's being motivated by something in his nightmares.  I suspect that Obliteration confused his nightmares with some sort of vision of the future, or possibly a calling from God (his "Here am I" comment is along the lines of the latter), and was trying to influence events as a result.  The information provided by David about nightmares presumably caused Obliteration to realize that he'd been wrong all along.

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but any clue as to what he dreams about? Because basically Obliteration agrees with David (or so is implied i think) that he dreams his weakness and correct me but didn't obliteration tell he dreams of well bringing apocalypse and thus his weakness is obliteration itself - gah - made more sense in my head!!

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The only possible clue we have to what Oliteration is dreaming about is the comment he makes at the end.  To paraphrase (since I don't have my book handy), the Lord calls, and he answers.

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And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream,” Obliteration whispered. “And I said, Here am I.… So that is the answer.

 

It's a bible quote:

 

 

Genesis 31, King James Bible

And he heard the words of Laban's sons, saying, Jacob hath taken away all that was our father's; and of that which was our father's hath he gotten all this glory. 2And Jacob beheld the countenance of Laban, and, behold, it was not toward him as before. 3And the LORD said unto Jacob, Return unto the land of thy fathers, and to thy kindred; and I will be with thee. 4And Jacob sent and called Rachel and Leah to the field unto his flock, 5And said unto them, I see your father's countenance, that itis not toward me as before; but the God of my father hath been with me. 6And ye know that with all my power I have served your father. 7And your father hath deceived me, and changed my wages ten times; but God suffered him not to hurt me. 8If he said thus, The speckled shall be thy wages; then all the cattle bare speckled: and if he said thus, The ringstraked shall be thy hire; then bare all the cattle ringstraked. 9Thus God hath taken away the cattle of your father, and given them to me. 10And it came to pass at the time that the cattle conceived, that I lifted up mine eyes, and saw in a dream, and, behold, the rams which leaped upon the cattle were ringstraked, speckled, and grisled. 11And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I. 12And he said, Lift up now thine eyes, and see, all the rams which leap upon the cattle areringstraked, speckled, and grisled: for I have seen all that Laban doeth unto thee. 13am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred. 14And Rachel and Leah answered and said unto him, Is there yet any portion or inheritance for us in our father's house? 15Are we not counted of him strangers? for he hath sold us, and hath quite devoured also our money. 16For all the riches which God hath taken from our father, that is ours, and our children's: now then, whatsoever God hath said unto thee, do.
Edited by Arcanist Lupus
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Obliteration hints at wanting to destroy all Epics, himself included.  From his conversation with Newton (~pg 158)

 

"I am the cleansing fire."

and

"Corrupt," Obliteration whispered. "All men are corrupt. The seed of the Epic is inside each one. And so, all must die. Mortal and immortal. All are --"

 

I don't think we have seen the last of him and that he could very well be on David's side in the next book.

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Well if he believes that everyone has to die because anyone could become an Epic then David not becoming one would kind of make him Obliteration's messiah.

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I feel like there simply wasn't enough drama for Obliteration to have turned good, at least not completely. He didn't seem to freak out at all, or react much at all. David tells him about epic nightmares, he whispers the bible quote, thanks him then leaves.

A realization that he had killed millions in vain would have hit him harder.

Maybe he just knows his weakness now, and is off to either face it or destroy it if he can.

People just seem to be making so much of it, and I'm just confused because I didn't get anything so grandiose when reading the scene.

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I feel like there simply wasn't enough drama for Obliteration to have turned good, at least not completely. He didn't seem to freak out at all, or react much at all. David tells him about epic nightmares, he whispers the bible quote, thanks him then leaves.

A realization that he had killed millions in vain would have hit him harder.

Maybe he just knows his weakness now, and is off to either face it or destroy it if he can.

People just seem to be making so much of it, and I'm just confused because I didn't get anything so grandiose when reading the scene.

 

I don't know if this is how I was supposed to read him, but my interpretation of Obliteration leads that scene—and the chance he may reform by the time Calamity begins—to make a lot more sense to me. 

 

Obliteration reminded me of some of the preachers I grew up listening to on my parents' and grandparents' radio shows—the sort of preacher who not only believes that we're living in the End Times, but that almost every news report and development in world events is a fulfillment of one Revelations prophecy or another. Verichip is the Mark of the Beast. A tsunami in the South Pacific is evidence of God's wrath. War in the Middle East is one of those "wars and rumors of wars" God's people are going to hear about just before the end. Obliteration struck me as the sort of preacher who not only believed all that, but preached it from the pulpit on Sunday morning. 

 

Then, Calamity arrives. Not only does he interpret this as a sign that the world will end, but he soon receives powers. With the powers come nightmares. Given his worldview, I surmised that his nightmares had something to do with the sinful nature of mankind—and that he interpreted these nightmares as visions of the future. With his powers, he came to believe himself to be a destroying angel of God, which actually led him to (according to him) look through Revelation to see which of the Four Horsemen he was. 

 

Now, here's the key difference between Obliteration and the radio preachers I grew up with: Obliteration didn't see himself as superior to those God was about to destroy. Where many of those radio preachers saw themselves as chosen by God to escape his wrath, and would have greeted the Rapture with a big "I told you so!" to those outside the church, Obliteration saw destroying the world as something that needed to be done. There was no pride in his actions. He didn't relish it. He simply saw it as something God had told him to do, with the understanding that he himself would be destroyed once his task was completed. His nightmares were visions, where God told him exactly why the world needed to be—

 

—hold on a second. What's this slayer of angels saying? He's calling those visions nightmares? Asking what they're about, like the answer holds the key to ending them? 

 

Does he really mean to say….they're just nightmares

 

He could be wrong, of course. But that confidence—he acts like he knows he's right. He's so calm about it. So assured. 

 

He could still be wrong. 

 

But if there's a chance he's right, then that means there's hope. 

Edited by TwiLyghtSansSparkles
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Like the voice of God telling Abraham to stop seconds before the knife came down on Isaac eh? I could actually see that as what's going through his mind.

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Like the voice of God telling Abraham to stop seconds before the knife came down on Isaac eh? I could actually see that as what's going through his mind.

 

Exactly. If he thought God was offering him a way out (through testing what David said) I think he would have at least tried it. If David is right, Obliteration will accept him as someone God used for good. If he's wrong…well, you saw what happened in San Diego. 

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Obliteration didn't die at the end of firefight, he teleported away. Like most epics he was motivated by his fears, and his lack of knowledge of how to overcome them. His emotional state of mind, which was strongly influenced by the biblical scriptures, lead him to believe that he was one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, given the destruction his powers could unleash. Like most epics he could not see himself as being a being of evil, so he rationalized his actions by claiming all men, including humans had always had the potential to be epics and therefore were worthy of death. When David revealed to obliteration the truth of his nightmares helping obliteration to realize the means to cure his insanity caused by calamities influenced, he left in search of a means to regain his sanity.

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As for his weakness, I'm not positive but I think it may have something to do with ice or intense cold, just as night wielder was weakened by sunlight. If obliteration unleashes heat everywhere there can't be an ice age with everything scorched and melted. That's probably why he melted whole cities, he was trying to destroy all the ice and to prevent any from harming him. He tries to prevent an apocalypse brought upon by an ice age, by causing an apocalypse by fire. His self claim to be a horse man of the apocalypse probably resulted from this train of thought, as well as his adopted title of obliteration. Claiming that all men have the dark seeds of epics and are worthy of destruction is how his mind rationalizes what he has done.

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Just finished reading this book and here are my thoughts... Sanderson has a way of introducing some clever twists so likely we are missing some key information here...

 

Obliteration believes he is obligated to destroy the world with him being the last thing he has to destroy. His nightmares are of God calling to him and demanding that he destroy but he is not able to complete the job, perhaps it is his fear he is not worthy of the job (perhaps his statement that his nightmares will kill him is an expression of his fear that he will not be able to live up to his mission and he will thus be destroyed by God). His reading of the 4 horsemen a dozen times speaks of his struggle to understand his role and why he should be worthy while at the same time he believes the epics are evil. This fear drives him to rationalize that he is somehow worthy and doing the right thing (i.e. he is not overcoming the fear, rather the fear is driving him). He knows if he entertains doubts his power wanes (i.e again, if he lets himself doubt himself he will be destroyed). Perhaps a good speech about how he is not worthy or won't be able to accomplish his mission would make him lose his power, but we never find that out. He is not evil, per se, but rather seriously deluded. When David tells him that his nightmare's are what causes his weakness and not the weakness what causes the nightmare, he suddenly begins to realize that the dreams are not God demanding he do anything, but rather just an expression of his fear from his former life, that he cannot accomplish what God demands, which enables him to set aside that fear or actually confront it (i.e. he can now think he can do good which is doing what god wants and he should not fear failure). This is the reason for the laugh and the comment about the lord spake and he responded. He now realizes that is all a delusion and his fears were completely unnecessary (which also would mean he no longer has this fear and as such has lost his weakness). When he touches David, there is nothing about heat mentioned, rather the implication is that David winced in pain due to the existing wounds, so there is no attempt to hurt David, rather an oversight. He then goes away to reflect upon what happened and possibly his actions until then, trying to figure out what it all means. Perhaps that is what the end with the laughter is, not that his job is to destroy but really he should be doing what he thinks is really God's will and help mankind, hence him laughing at how he got it all backwards.

 

On a separate note, just wondering if David is an Epic now or not... Too many odd pointers and not sure what to make of them. Also wonder what is going to be with Prof in the next book, which is titled Calamity... Strange, to let the leader of the Reckoners to become evil at the end of this book and not have him the title for the next one. Must be his story-line will be wrapped up in a story-line related to Calamity. What I really wonder is if somehow he (Prof) actually becomes Calamity... Also, with all those mad Epics out there throughout the world, I think a universal solution to them, will somehow be introduced. Simply telling Epics to conquer the fears, will not easily work, just look at David trying to rationalize with Prof when he is really Epic... It worked with Obliteration as Obliteration was a thoughtful person and on Megan as she cared and was not very evil in her time with David. Not sure, if this would have worked on some more naturally evil epics or those without something countering their Epic nature to begin with that would allow them to listen to this idea.

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that is an interesting thought about his weakness being a fear of inadequacy. Maybe it would be triggered by a significant enough failure of his? Like he is trying to accomplish a certain goal and he fails, so he loses his powers for a time.

It would fit well as a counter-point to the confident and calm exterior he projects most of the time

 

Not sure if it would have been triggered during Firefight though, he certainly fails to kill David and Prof despite trying a number of times. Perhaps those failures are not significant or final enough (he can always kill them later, and their living is part of the plan anyway) or perhasp he personally didn't care enough for it to count.

 

Or maybe, as you said, someone saying something that makes him doubt himself. That seems hard to achieve though, given his fanaticism.

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Perhaps the key to understanding his weakness comes from his profession pre-Calamity. Given his familiarity with scripture and his penchant for quoting it, it is more than likely he was some sort of minister. I don't know what his weakness is, but it is likely related to that profession.

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