How Viable is Nalthian Nanotechnology?

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

So this randomly occurred to me today, and I thought I'd just throw it out there to see what all the more scientifically inclined board members thought of it.

 

Say two or three hundred years after Warbreaker, Nalthis develops nanotechnology.  Tiny machines inserted directly into the bloodstream, maybe even fashioned in humanoid shape for Cognitive purposes....could an Awakener with sufficient Breaths then give Commands directly to the nanobots?  What Investiture mechanism would be required to see all the nanobots in a person's body as one thing for purposes of a Command, but still allow them to operate as individual machines fulfilling that Command through multiple parts of a person's body simultaneously?

 

I can't quite work out how that would work, but I feel pretty confident there's a way to make it happen.  And if it could, the implications could be vast for the future of Nalthian technology and science.

 

Or alternatively, given that Awakening is easier with organic materials, what about giving Commands to stem cells?

Edited January 9, 2015 by ROSHtaFARian2.0

[Dunkum]

I suspect that you couldn't view a bunch of nanomachines as a single entity for the purposes of awakening.  if there were billions of them in someone's bloodstream that you wanted to awaken, you'd probably need billions of breaths to do it.  plus you'd probably need to be at one of the higher heightenings anyway, whichever one lets you awaken without physical contact (9th?).  and also, based on how investiture always seems to work, this would likely be even harder to accomplish because being inside someone's body would probably protect them some (like how metals piercing flesh are harder to push/pull in mistborn)

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

I suspect that you couldn't view a bunch of nanomachines as a single entity for the purposes of awakening.  if there were billions of them in someone's bloodstream that you wanted to awaken, you'd probably need billions of breaths to do it.  plus you'd probably need to be at one of the higher heightenings anyway, whichever one lets you awaken without physical contact (9th?).  and also, based on how investiture always seems to work, this would likely be even harder to accomplish because being inside someone's body would probably protect them some (like how metals piercing flesh are harder to push/pull in mistborn)

 

Hmmm, good points.  What about if the nanobots were in the Awakener's own body?

 

The tricky part is figuring out some sort of Cognitive workaround to view all the nanobots as one thing to Awaken.  If the nanobots' Identity is all linked in the Awakener's mind, like if he viewed them all as parts of the same whole to Command, and it was all the same command like 'Heal my flesh', that could work, right?

 

I mean, theoretically Awakeners with that level of scientific knowledge would be aware of molecules, atoms and subatomic particles.  So any Awakener who was able to still Awaken a piece of cloth by viewing it as one singular entity rather than a collection of atoms could theoretically apply that same mindset to the nanotechnology within his own body, being aware that it was a collection of smaller parts but still for the purposes of Awakening viewing the entire nanotech mechanism as one singular Cognitive entity.

 

I'm basing all of this in large part on how Vasher was able to use his own cognitive view of self to change his shape.  Training one's self to change how you view Cognitive aspects seems to be the key to unlocking a great many of the higher implications of Awakening.

[Dunkum]

If you were able to make somethign that could readily be conseived as a single unit, then you might have a chance, but I'm not sure how viable something like that would be inside a body.

[king of nowhere]

intersting idea. yes, the stuff about viewing all the nanobots as a single entity is certianly the most tricky one. all the other problems ccan be gotten around with some effort or creativity, but for this one, it either work or it doesn't.

I wouldn't say it's impossible. vasher made a puppet with straw, so the loosely assemmbled pieces of straw still counted as one unit. nanobots could be viewed as one unitary thing - a single entity working towards a purpose, just like all the different molecules in your body are a sinlge entity working towards a purpose. but then, a single nanobot could perform the same function of the many, if slower, while the same does not hold for your body, or even for a straw puppet.

There are also other possibilities. if you have nanobots in your blood healing you, they may be regarded as part of your organism after a while. so they may be more effective iff you have more breath. they may be recreated by stormlight. if there are nanobots in the body of a lifeless, they may get the enhancement as part of the lifeless, even if it wasn't possible or practical to awaken them alone.

I suppose the only way of knowing that would be to ask brandon.

[Ashiok]

A sphere. Give it the command divide and heal my flesh, and at my command, return. That would be Healing Nanobots. You'd have to be able to picture it really well though...

[Dunkum]

A sphere. Give it the command divide and heal my flesh, and at my command, return. That would be Healing Nanobots. You'd have to be able to picture it really well though...

Interesting idea.  I wonder if a command like "divide..." is possible, though.  Is there any instance of a character using it in book?

[Cam]

A bundle of human shaped straw tied with string is not a single thing, but can be awakened as if it was, the question is whether it can split, I assume no, unless the breaths themselves can be split.

[Kipper]

Interesting idea.  I wonder if a command like "divide..." is possible, though.  Is there any instance of a character using it in book?

Not at all. It doesn't sound reasonable and seems to violate conservation of energy.

[Blaze1616]

A few things to point out for this discussion. First, remember that cognitive identity of the object being awakened is more than just how the Awakener views it (think of the stick in SA). The nanobots would need to view themselves as one single unit, cognitively. This is why Vasher's straw man worked. Yes, the straw man is made up of a bunch of individual straw strands, but together they make a "doll." This "doll" then had the cognitive identity of being a "doll," and as such could be awakened as a single unit. Same with cloth later in the book. Cognitive identity is a bit more omplicated than just how the Awakener views things. Getting a grouping of nanobots to view themselves as one unit would probably be tricky, considering each individual bot would be doing their own thing. I would say it would be impossible to do (as the straw strands from the straw man moved as a unit, rather than running around individually).

 

Next is the amount of Breath one would need to do so. Nanobots are, I assume, inorganic. Awakening them would then be similar to awakening Nightblood, and they would be Type IV entities. This would require a large amount of Breaths, and as discussed in the above paragraph, would probably require that for each nanobot. Then one has to take into consideration that the Awakener would need to be of the Ninth Heightening, as Dunkum noted, to give the nanobots audible commands.This Heightening would need to be maintained across all of the Awakenings. All in all this would require such a vast amount of Breath that I would, again, label it impossible.

 

Theoretically, I suppose it is possible. But it is possible in the same way that, if the Earth suddenly had no mass, we would get pulled to the moon by its gravity. Theoretically possible. Will never happen. That's my take, anyways.

[ecohansen]

Quote

Chapter 56:

Denth reacted immediately, cutting the rope out of the air with his dagger.  The pieces twisted and wriggled, but weren't long enough to grab anything.

 

So, parts of an awakened item continue moving independently after the item is broken.  So give each of your nanobots long tendrils that let it connect to other nanobots throughout the body's bloodstream.  You now have a network of bots making up a single, perfectly human-shaped item that should be very easy to Awaken, as long as the bots are made from organic materials rather than metals.  Now give the Command "move when commanded".  Don't command the bot assemblage to move yet.  Do something physical to break the tendrils: change the temperature or acidity of the blood, thereby causing the tendril proteins to coil (this is how you denature enzymes).  The bots are no longer connected.  NOW command them to move.  You'd have to hardwire the desired movement pattern into them at the start, but you could shape some of your bots to have random movement that makes channels through cell membranes, and other bots to move through those channels, etcetera.  Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Edited June 11, 2015 by ecohansen