Prof's weakness

[taveren]

what if his weakness was 5th grade science projects

[Patrick Star]

what if his weakness was 5th grade science projects

 

Yeah, I already suggested that the elephant toothpaste was his weakness (not trying to be rude, sorry).  If he didn't touch it, it wouldn't have activated.  If he felt himself losing control, he could smash the glass and keep himself from going on a rampage.

 

I have a big question about prof though.  Did he go on a rending?  Because he's incredibly powerful.  Could he have been involved (with Tia, of course) with calamity's origin?

[Edgedancer]

Yeah, I already suggested that the elephant toothpaste was his weakness (not trying to be rude, sorry).  If he didn't touch it, it wouldn't have activated.  If he felt himself losing control, he could smash the glass and keep himself from going on a rampage.

 

I have a big question about prof though.  Did he go on a rending?  Because he's incredibly powerful.  Could he have been involved (with Tia, of course) with calamity's origin?

My personal theory is that the Epic that killed Prof´s class was Prof himself on his rending, but no we don´t know.

[Wrath]

My personal theory is that the Epic that killed Prof´s class was Prof himself on his rending, but no we don´t know.

 

That's also my theory. Seems like the logical answer. The real question is how Prof managed to take control of himself afterwards.

 

Did Edmund go on a Rending? I can't remember what he said in the first book.

[Ari]

Argent, that is an awesome question. I'm going to the Philly signing of Firefight; I'll ask him then. Let's hope it doesn't get RAFO'd.

 

Brandon will most likely RAFO anything that isn't obviously wrong from the way he remembers writing the books if Prof's weakness plays any significant part in Calamity. And even if it doesn't, I would imagine he would RAFO questions like that anyway so as not to reveal too much about the nature of the plot.

 

Pretty sure Prof weakness is going to be people who feel he has failed them.

 

The contest he didn't enter wasn't because he was afraid of losing, but because he was afraid of letting Tia, and his kids down.

 

When David joined the reckoners he threatens David  when David puts the team in danger, because he doesn't want to let his team down.

 

When David improvises  Prof jumps in to prevent letting David down.

 

Prof kills Exel before he can register what he has done with killing Val.

 

When Prof shows up to kill David, he regards David strangely, and it isn't until David reacts in a way that shows he isn't blaming Prof that Prof tries to kill him.

 

My conclusion is that Profs weakness is people who feel he has failed them.

 

That's a pretty solid guess. It would have a lot of symmetry with Steelheart's weakness- I'm not sure if that's a positive or negative at this stage.

 

Different take on his weakness -- what if it's feeling like he's losing control/respect/needs to lead?  (Obviously, losing control of his powers can't be included)

Points to consider:

--He often makes snap decisions, but he hates it when other people (meaning David) do.

--He doesn't like that David is so good at convincing/inspiring the others.  This could be because he feels threatened.

--As a teacher, an uncontrollable class would be a plausible fear

--He hates things he can't control, like contests or games of chance

 

Rebuttal to the inevitable counter-argument:

But he's not always in control of the situation!  There are plenty of times where he nearly dies, etc.

At the end of Firefight, we realize he's amazingly powerful, more than any we've seen so far, including maybe Steelheart.  There are plenty of times where things go wrong, but he's almost always made the decision to limit his powers rather than let them run free.  I don't think anything in the series left him completely without that option.  

 

It doesn't seem particularly consist with the psychology of Epics for prof to have faced Steelheart in person unless he was confident that Steelheart couldn't use his weakness. If his weakness were lack of control, there could be all sorts of things Steelheart could do in the final encounter to kill him.

 

Also, I feel like if his weakness were lack of control, he would have been far more likely to wipe out reckoner cells that saw him lose control, and that he would show no hint of the control-obsessed traits he obviously displays to the team in Steelheart. I'd caution in guessing Prof's weakness that a character quirk does not necessarily indicate a fear, and that you're looking for something that Prof would have tried to either downplay or outright conceal at least in Firefight, (where he acts exactly like an epic for most of the book) if not also in Steelheart.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Ari

[Retsam]

I don't think I'm really sold on the "games of chance" idea.  I'm mostly reiterating the objections of others here, but: 

 

We're basing it off the "he hated contests" line... but then the "I've seen him lose at poker" line points the opposite direction.  Sure, it's been argued that Poker isn't really a game of chance... but it seems like a stretch to explain it away that way; if the "poker" line is just something to be explained away, with no connection to his weakness, then equally one could argue that the "hated contests" line doesn't really have a connection to his weakness, either.

 

I think the "Prof hates contests" line is just to reinforce the characterization of Prof as a generally cautious and careful person; he's careful and he plans, just because that's the way he is, and because, fighting Epics with normal people; you'd have to be insane (or a main character) not to. 

 

Plus, weakness have to tie to fears from before Calamity.  Are we really saying that pre-Calamity Prof had deep fears and nightmares about raffles?  Maybe as a child he picked a random Jelly Bean from a bag and got liquorice and was traumatized by that moment and has had nightmares about it ever since?  

 

This argument also applies to the "lack of control" weakness.  Did a 5th grade science teacher really fear a lack of control?  Was he just staying up terrified at night that a student might talk back to him?

 

No, I'm in the camp of Prof's weakness being related to protecting others in some way.  You're a 5th grade science teacher; what do you fear?  Raffles?  Back-talk?  No; I think the most natural fear of a 5th grade science teacher is letting their students down, and so his weakness is more likely connected to something like that.  Plus, the idea of protection fits in with his powers - forcefields and healing - (Maybe the "tensor" power is simply a special application of forcefields?) in a way that the others don't.

 

Of course, Prof has failed people; most notably once he starts killing them, but then, weaknesses aren't always a straightforward interpretation of the fears.  Sourcefield's fear was cults, but her weakness wasn't the literally the presence of a cult, but drinking the Kool-Aid; something connected to cults, but not in as straightforward a way as you might expect.  I'm only arguing that his weakness will relate to his fear of failing someone... not that it will literally be "I lose my powers when I fail someone".  

 

(Alternatively, his weakness could be connected to an area of his pre-Calamity life that we know little about; e.g. his relationship with Tia... but it seems outside of Sanderson's M.O. to not have some hint of the weakness of Prof)

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

I don't think I'm really sold on the "games of chance" idea.  I'm mostly reiterating the objections of others here, but: 

 

We're basing it off the "he hated contests" line... but then the "I've seen him lose at poker" line points the opposite direction.  Sure, it's been argued that Poker isn't really a game of chance... but it seems like a stretch to explain it away that way; if the "poker" line is just something to be explained away, with no connection to his weakness, then equally one could argue that the "hated contests" line doesn't really have a connection to his weakness, either.

 

I think the "Prof hates contests" line is just to reinforce the characterization of Prof as a generally cautious and careful person; he's careful and he plans, just because that's the way he is, and because, fighting Epics with normal people; you'd have to be insane (or a main character) not to. 

 

Plus, weakness have to tie to fears from before Calamity.  Are we really saying that pre-Calamity Prof had deep fears and nightmares about raffles?  Maybe as a child he picked a random Jelly Bean from a bag and got liquorice and was traumatized by that moment and has had nightmares about it ever since?  

 

This argument also applies to the "lack of control" weakness.  Did a 5th grade science teacher really fear a lack of control?  Was he just staying up terrified at night that a student might talk back to him?

 

No, I'm in the camp of Prof's weakness being related to protecting others in some way.  You're a 5th grade science teacher; what do you fear?  Raffles?  Back-talk?  No; I think the most natural fear of a 5th grade science teacher is letting their students down, and so his weakness is more likely connected to something like that.  Plus, the idea of protection fits in with his powers - forcefields and healing - (Maybe the "tensor" power is simply a special application of forcefields?) in a way that the others don't.

 

Of course, Prof has failed people; most notably once he starts killing them, but then, weaknesses aren't always a straightforward interpretation of the fears.  Sourcefield's fear was cults, but her weakness wasn't the literally the presence of a cult, but drinking the Kool-Aid; something connected to cults, but not in as straightforward a way as you might expect.  I'm only arguing that his weakness will relate to his fear of failing someone... not that it will literally be "I lose my powers when I fail someone".  

 

(Alternatively, his weakness could be connected to an area of his pre-Calamity life that we know little about; e.g. his relationship with Tia... but it seems outside of Sanderson's M.O. to not have some hint of the weakness of Prof)

 

He doesn't like to talk about the time he won an entire bag of banana-flavored Laffy Taffy in a raffle.  

 

On a more serious note: How long before Calamity are we talking? It was established that Megan and Sourcefield had their fears long before Calamity rose, but David didn't realize his fear of water until he arrived in Babilar—thirteen years after Calamity. Now, it was also established that Prof developed his powers extremely early—well before most other Epics—but if his fear of uncertainty, say, was exacerbated by the mysterious red star that appeared shortly before he got his powers, it could be a clue. Not that his weakness is Calamity himself, but it could be a hint as to his real fear. 

 

I know I'm grasping at straws here, but still. 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

Here's another shot in the dark: What if Prof's weakness has something to do with being tricked? He jumped pretty quickly from "Megan pretended to be on our side" to "She is obviously pure evil and needs to die." Granted, that could stem from the fact that one of Steelheart's inner circle infiltrated his team, but what about at the end, where he sees Megan alive and David remarks that he looks terrified--the same way Sourcefield looked when trapped by her weakness? Prof could have assumed Megan tricked him regarding her weakness, or he could have suspected the gun trick. Prof's powers still worked fine, so his weakness obviously isn't as simple as "fool me once," but it seems like there might be something more there.

[Voidus]

Like any true teacher his true fear is a paper with a lack of a bibliography. 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

Like any true teacher his true fear is a paper with a lack of a bibliography.

Improper citations. He feared a student who had no idea how to use MLA format. Which is to say, all of them.

[Patrick Star]

It's actually the prospect of receiving a jelly filled doughnut by accident.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

It's actually the prospect of receiving a jelly filled doughnut by accident.

Why? Because no one can resist jelly filled?

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Prof fears a student being smarter than him. David's metaphors really make Prof feel better about their student teacher dynamic.

[Patrick Star]

Why? Because no one can resist jelly filled?

 

He's a chocolate person, and jelly doesn't mix well with chocolate.

 

 

Prof fears a student being smarter than him. David's metaphors really make Prof feel better about their student teacher dynamic.

 

That theory's shakier than a washing machine full of a hundred epileptic monkeys.  Not that I would know what that looks like.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Patrick Star

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

Prof fears a student being smarter than him. David's metaphors really make Prof feel better about their student teacher dynamic.

The moment when he saw Megan didn't fill him with terror because he didn't understand her powers. It filled him with terror because he realized in that moment that David's metaphors were better than his all along.

[AhMayzon]

New here. 

That's also my theory. Seems like the logical answer. The real question is how Prof managed to take control of himself afterwards.

 

Did Edmund go on a Rending? I can't remember what he said in the first book.

Yup.  And presumably Tia knows how he got control of himself last time.  She needs to talk (if she lived). 

 

Here was my thought:  What if Prof's fear is being wrong, or being proven wrong?  He plans things to minute detail (trying to cover all reasonable possibilities so regardless of what happens, he can't be wrong?)  That could also explain how he reacts to betrayal (was wrong about the person in question?)

 

I also wonder if the scene when he was doing small chemistry experiments to calm himself was significant.  If I remember right, there was a comment that he was containing reactions in forcefields too (can't find it right now).  Just messing around, or significant?  It's hard to envision a 5th grade-level science experiment that could go wrong enough to blow up, but if something like that happened it would be a very good source for a fear!

[Retsam]

New here. 

Yup.  And presumably Tia knows how he got control of himself last time.  She needs to talk (if she lived). 

 

Here was my thought:  What if Prof's fear is being wrong, or being proven wrong?  He plans things to minute detail (trying to cover all reasonable possibilities so regardless of what happens, he can't be wrong?)  That could also explain how he reacts to betrayal (was wrong about the person in question?)

 

I also wonder if the scene when he was doing small chemistry experiments to calm himself was significant.  If I remember right, there was a comment that he was containing reactions in forcefields too (can't find it right now).  Just messing around, or significant?  It's hard to envision a 5th grade-level science experiment that could go wrong enough to blow up, but if something like that happened it would be a very good source for a fear!

 

I'm pretty sure prof has been wrong about plenty of things.  No matter how much planning you do, you're going to be wrong (and proven wrong) on occasion if you go around guessing Epic weaknesses.  Wasn't one of the Steelheart weaknesses tried at the end of the book specifically Prof's idea?  

 

As I said in my last post; extensive planning before going up against Epics just means that you're sane, it's not something I really see as a hint to a weakness.  

 

But more than that, I just don't feel that "the fear of being wrong" really fits thematically.  One pattern in weaknesses is, as far as I've seen, they're all pretty much Adult Fears: fear of rejection (Fortuity), fear of not living up to the expectations of others (Newton), a fear of fire, a fear of being murdered by a cult, etc.  All the fears we've seen have been serious reasonable fears, the sort of thing that even as an adult, might well might give you nightmares or keep you up at night.  We haven't had any real trivial fears like "fear of the number 13" or "fear of public speaking".

 

Someone who is "afraid of being wrong" likely isn't really plagued by nightmares about being incorrect... that expression just means they particularly don't like being wrong.  I particularly can't see such a petty fear being the secret weakness of such an important character as Prof... but even minor characters like Sourcefield and Fortuity have had pretty reasonable and serious fears.

 

This idea that Epic fears, and Prof's fear in particular, be based on "Adult Fears" is also a bit of my argument against the "he's afraid of games of chance" idea that I didn't quite manage to put into words in my last post.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

I'm pretty sure prof has been wrong about plenty of things. No matter how much planning you do, you're going to be wrong (and proven wrong) on occasion if you go around guessing Epic weaknesses. Wasn't one of the Steelheart weaknesses tried at the end of the book specifically Prof's idea?

As I said in my last post; extensive planning before going up against Epics just means that you're sane, it's not something I really see as a hint to a weakness.

But more than that, I just don't feel that "the fear of being wrong" really fits thematically. One pattern in weaknesses is, as far as I've seen, they're all pretty much Adult Fears: fear of rejection (Fortuity), fear of not living up to the expectations of others (Newton), a fear of fire, a fear of being murdered by a cult, etc. All the fears we've seen have been serious reasonable fears, the sort of thing that even as an adult, might well might give you nightmares or keep you up at night. We haven't had any real trivial fears like "fear of the number 13" or "fear of public speaking".

Someone who is "afraid of being wrong" likely isn't really plagued by nightmares about being incorrect... that expression just means they particularly don't like being wrong. I particularly can't see such a petty fear being the secret weakness of such an important character as Prof... but even minor characters like Sourcefield and Fortuity have had pretty reasonable and serious fears.

This idea that Epic fears, and Prof's fear in particular, be based on "Adult Fears" is also a bit of my argument against the "he's afraid of games of chance" idea that I didn't quite manage to put into words in my last post.

Maybe there's something there, though. Fear of being wrong is, on it's own, a trivial fear. But the fear of being drastically, horribly wrong in a way that causes irreparable damage is not. It would need to be more narrowly defined, like the fear of being wrong about how to raise a child, or wrong about the cure to an illness, but that sort of fear could be an adult fear.

[Retsam]

Maybe there's something there, though. Fear of being wrong is, on it's own, a trivial fear. But the fear of being drastically, horribly wrong in a way that causes irreparable damage is not. It would need to be more narrowly defined, like the fear of being wrong about how to raise a child, or wrong about the cure to an illness, but that sort of fear could be an adult fear.

 

There might be variations on "fear of being wrong" that are more thematically appropriate (though I'd categorize the two that you list as separate fears from "being wrong"). but we just don't have any evidence for any of those, as I can see.  The idea behind the "fear of being wrong" is just based on Profs extensive planning, but again I don't really think that's evidence, and it's particularly not evidence for a more specific fear than simply "being wrong".

[AhMayzon]

Maybe there's something there, though. Fear of being wrong is, on it's own, a trivial fear. But the fear of being drastically, horribly wrong in a way that causes irreparable damage is not. It would need to be more narrowly defined, like the fear of being wrong about how to raise a child, or wrong about the cure to an illness, but that sort of fear could be an adult fear.

That's what I was trying to get at.  Something in his past that went terribly wrong, that he was responsible for, and that hurt or killed someone he cared about, maybe.

[Blackhoof]

I think fear of being wrong can be an adult fear, easily. As long as it is about a specific and very serious thing, likely related to an event in the past.

Although i cant help but feel like the games of chance has to play a part. It is mentioned too heavily to be insignificant (and in this book, no,less.) He refused to even participate in the NASA draw- what's with such an aversion to chance? There must be something to it.

Likely more clues will be revealed in Calamity.

[Voidus]

I'm pretty sure prof has been wrong about plenty of things.  No matter how much planning you do, you're going to be wrong (and proven wrong) on occasion if you go around guessing Epic weaknesses.  Wasn't one of the Steelheart weaknesses tried at the end of the book specifically Prof's idea?  

 

As I said in my last post; extensive planning before going up against Epics just means that you're sane, it's not something I really see as a hint to a weakness.  

 

But more than that, I just don't feel that "the fear of being wrong" really fits thematically.  One pattern in weaknesses is, as far as I've seen, they're all pretty much Adult Fears: fear of rejection (Fortuity), fear of not living up to the expectations of others (Newton), a fear of fire, a fear of being murdered by a cult, etc.  All the fears we've seen have been serious reasonable fears, the sort of thing that even as an adult, might well might give you nightmares or keep you up at night.  We haven't had any real trivial fears like "fear of the number 13" or "fear of public speaking".

 

Someone who is "afraid of being wrong" likely isn't really plagued by nightmares about being incorrect... that expression just means they particularly don't like being wrong.  I particularly can't see such a petty fear being the secret weakness of such an important character as Prof... but even minor characters like Sourcefield and Fortuity have had pretty reasonable and serious fears.

 

This idea that Epic fears, and Prof's fear in particular, be based on "Adult Fears" is also a bit of my argument against the "he's afraid of games of chance" idea that I didn't quite manage to put into words in my last post.

I'm sure that you didn't mean it that way but people who suffer genuine phobias of such things as the number 13 or public speaking may take offense to having their fears called 'trivial'.

Irrational, certainly but the strength of their fears can be just as strong as if not stronger than that of 'normal' or 'Adult' fears.

[happyman]

Although i cant help but feel like the games of chance has to play a part. It is mentioned too heavily to be insignificant (and in this book, no,less.) He refused to even participate in the NASA draw- what's with such an aversion to chance? There must be something to it.

 

I agree that the emphasis on his avoiding the NASA drawing and other games of (pure) chance are too big and too important to not be part of his fear/weakness.

 

I'm sure that you didn't mean it that way but people who suffer genuine phobias of such things as the number 13 or public speaking may take offense to having their fears called 'trivial'.

Irrational, certainly but the strength of their fears can be just as strong as if not stronger than that of 'normal' or 'Adult' fears.

 

This too.  Phobias can be strange, involuntary, and very real.  However, I have to wonder if Calamity doesn't take that into account, and if a fear due to, say, an anxiety disorder, would count the same as other, more rational fears.  It's a good question.  (No idea about the answer.)

[Retsam]

I'm sure that you didn't mean it that way but people who suffer genuine phobias of such things as the number 13 or public speaking may take offense to having their fears called 'trivial'.

Irrational, certainly but the strength of their fears can be just as strong as if not stronger than that of 'normal' or 'Adult' fears.

 

I'm not denying that phobias exist, but that's not really what I was talking about; I was simply referring to the common usage of the phrase, which doesn't refer to a phobia.  

 

And interpreting Prof's aversion to games of chance as a phobia... that seems like a massive stretch; a simpler explanation is that it's exactly what Tia says, that he simply dislikes them, which is a bit quirky but not unheard of.  Saying this single incident constitutes a phobia actually seems a bit trivializing towards the concept of a phobia, too.  If Prof actually had a neurological condition causing his fear, I'd sure hope we'd have more than a single anecdote for evidence, since neurological conditions tend not to be so easy to ignore.

 

---

 

Speaking of which, where is all this "heavy emphasis on games of chance" that you guys are talking about.  Did I miss some other mention to it, or is this all based on that one comment from Tia?  Because, I don't call a single mention "heavy emphasis".

 

 

I think fear of being wrong can be an adult fear, easily. As long as it is about a specific and very serious thing, likely related to an event in the past.

 

Yeah, but without any evidence for what that "specific and very serious" thing is, we've got nothing to go on.  And, really, if this is the case, I'd say his fear is that specific thing, not simply a "fear of being wrong".  

[Hastyr]

I think Brandon has given us enough hints.  This isn't a cosmere book so his weakness should be somewhat obvious. 

 

So I'll put forward the following:

 

1) Megan says that Epics' names relate to their weaknesses

2) Prof didn't enter the NASA Drawing

3) They chose the name "Limelight" to describe the "fake" Epic threatening Steelheart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limelight

 

Based on that I would argue Prof's weakness/fear is "Fame"  Or being Famous.  Which correlates with Calamity choosing to make Prof one of the Strongest Epics based off his fear.   It also becomes a negative feedback loop - Prof becomes a famous Epic, Loses his powers, becomes normal again, which may explain why he has been able to hold out for so long.

 

It fits well into why he has always had the Reckoners be "hidden".

 

It also would be a great storyline for the next book, the Reckoners try to cover up for Prof, only at the end to "reveal" it all to take away his powers or free him from his corruption.

 

Of course I don't know how this plays into the fear he showed when he wasn't able to kill David & Megan at the end of Firefight.

 

I apologize for the poor formatting and brevity, I'm in a rush.

 

-Hastyr