Sirscott13

Firefight talk (SPOILERS!!! do not read before book)

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Not that the mechanism of Gifting doesn't seem to have changed between the two books. In Steelheart it was implied the ability stayed with someone until cancelled by the Gifter. In Firefight it seems to be a limited charge is transferred and when used up or you move out of range the ability is lost.

Prof's force fields ran out the same way in Steelheart, we just didn't know they were a gifted ability. His disintegration ability doesn't seem to run out when gifted, or if it does it runs out very slowly, but we don't really see that used in Firefight.

That's a good point about the range thing. I had always thought that when Prof was away he just couldn't give them more power, but that any power he had already gifted them stayed until it ran out. Now that you mention it though, I think you're probably right.

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You know, speaking David-is-an-Epic theory, I wonder if they've ever had an Epic with a weakness that is completely redundant, like explosions, or getting shot. Like, the weakness would still shut down their powers like normal, but by the time you use it there'd be a good chance they'd be dead anyway.

 

If they're sourced from trauma and fears, then a potentially lethal weakness is totally possible no?
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You know, speaking David-is-an-Epic theory, I wonder if they've ever had an Epic with a weakness that is completely redundant, like explosions, or getting shot. Like, the weakness would still shut down their powers like normal, but by the time you use it there'd be a good chance they'd be dead anyway.
 
If they're sourced from trauma and fears, then a potentially lethal weakness is totally possible no?

 

Seems reasonable, although there is a possiblity that in such cases Calamity chooses an random detail about the attacker. For example David once mentions a Epic whose weakness is a person with a specific age.

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Quick annoyance that I had about the first encounter with Obliteration: Brandon ANTI-FORESHADOWED. What the heck, man? Prof deliberately gives David tensor powers despite explicitly saying they probably wouldn't be much use in Babilar. David goes and gets himself ball-and-chained, and what does he do? He lets himself almost drown, only saved by the benevolent Megan. He should've easily been able to tensor the chain and be free, so I'm annoyed that he didn't. I know he was scared because of the water, but being scared hasn't reduced his fairly impressive survival instincts at all before. Urgh.

 

 

 

I've been thinking about that myself, and I think it was part of the foreshadowing for David's fear. Later on, when he tries to get to the burning building, he has the same panic type scenario, and I believe it mentions that the only reason he shot out of the water was because he accidentally made a fist, not because he consciously though about using the spyril. I can't double check on that right now though, I lent out my book to a friend. 

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I'm willing to admit that we don't know for sure whether or not David is actually an Epic, though I personally believe that he's not. I would like to know, however, why it seems to be so important to everyone? I was far more concerned with the implications of Prof going full evil, and Calamity being an Epic. The book practically said David wasn't an Epic. He said, "Not interested," to which Regalia replied, "Not... interested. It doesn't matter if you're interested or not! You don't get a choice." "Made one anyway." Now, I suppose David could be wrong, but at such a pivotal scene, where it's basically David choosing not to let his fears -- and the power that would come with them -- control him, it seems like if he later said, "Oh, yeah, thought I chose my own fate. Guess not. Oh well," that would be a huge letdown. For me, this was enough. I'm fine with David not being an Epic; it's worked out great for two books so far, and I feel that him being normal is part of what makes him so interesting a character. However, it seems that many people are not satisfied with this explanation, so all I ask is why? Is there something I'm missing that would make it so important that David actually became an Epic?

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Eh, I think most people just want to see David get powered up after all his hard work. I'm fine either way (story wise, both could be interesting, though theme wise I'll admit that him not being an Epic is probably better), and could see it going either way. The scene was a bit ambiguous, which is why a lot of people see it as open to interpretation (at least until Calamity comes out). I mean, David says he became an Epic, and then says he turned the offer down. Slight contradiction there :P

Random comment: I thought the line about looking for heroes among epics being a valid option, but looking in the wrong place (thinking of Prof as a hero instead of Megan) was pretty powerful and made Prof's turn that much worse.

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550456, I agree with your thoughts.  I also think that people are trying way to hard to try to re-interpret Prof's final gifting as some "stealing ability".

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I mean, David says he became an Epic, and then says he turned the offer down. Slight contradiction there :P

Do you mind telling me exactly where this is in the book? I couldn't remember that, and in looking for it I found a passage that said:

"But I wasn’t an Epic. I had no doubt that she’d just tried to give me powers, as she said she could do. I had no doubt that I’d heard Calamity’s voice in my mind. It just hadn’t worked on me."

That's literally David saying that it didn't work. As I said before, I suppose David could be wrong, and that we don't know for sure, but this seems pretty definitive to me.

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Do you mind telling me exactly where this is in the book? I couldn't remember that, and in looking for it I found a passage that said:

"But I wasn’t an Epic. I had no doubt that she’d just tried to give me powers, as she said she could do. I had no doubt that I’d heard Calamity’s voice in my mind. It just hadn’t worked on me."

That's literally David saying that it didn't work. As I said before, I suppose David could be wrong, and that we don't know for sure, but this seems pretty definitive to me.

It's immediately before that, when he first meets Calamity. He feels the tainted power going through him, and says he was an epic, then mentions finding out for sure before drowning himself. That's when he hears the whisper in his mind to take the power, and he rejects it. After that is when he says he isn't an epic. 

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I'm fine with David not being an Epic; [...] However, it seems that many people are not satisfied with this explanation, so all I ask is why?

 

David admitted in the middle of Firefight that to beat the really strong Epics, the Reckoners would need Epic allies. And really, if Regalia or Obliteration wanted to kill David after his Prof-fields ran out, I think they could have easily done so. So it seems that in the next book, David, presumably without the aid of Prof's gifted powers, will be a sitting duck against dangerous Epics. So I'm predicting that latent Epic powers would be invaluable to David in Book 3. Certainly book 3 could function without that development, but it just seems like a natural way to progress the story.

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Maybe Calamity is actually David.  Having absorbed all Epic powers in order to restore their humanity, he then travels back in time to create the timeline that he knows will result in the human race surviving and the Epics going away.

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I very much doubt that David could have been an Epic all along, he didn't confront his fear until very recently. I think his affinity for powers is unrelated, but it would make it thematically appropriate for Calamity to give him the ability to steal other Epics powers.

 

The fear of water is a new fear, Im not sure it applies if he was already an epic.  He never had nightmares about water before hand.  I think it would only apply if he became a new epic when Calamity was trying to gift him. 

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...Really, I was downvoted for that?  I was at least 50% serious.

 

David wasn't afraid of water until very recently, so *if* he was an Epic all along, that wouldn't be his weakness.  He hasn't described any particular nightmares, either, so it seems unlikely that he's been an Epic.  He's just really dedicated and good at what he does!

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...Really, I was downvoted for that? I was at least 50% serious.

Fixed! :)

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Anyways, thoughts... dang it prof, why you gotta go be so stupid? David's almost always reckless, but he's also almost always got the right idea. If you'd listened to him about Megan, you'd have been safe. David, why you gotta go be so stupid? If you'd explained your non-mobile interactions with Megan, you'd probably have been a lot more convincing. 

I agree about listening to David, but to be fair it wouldn't have saved Prof.  Regalia had him checkmated - he could either go Epic and save the city, or he could watch the city burn (and possibly go Epic while keeping himself alive w/ his powers)

 

I don't think David's an Epic, for the reasons everyone else has said and more.

 

I was expecting David to use the tensor that Prof granted him at the beginning (which he didn't use on the chain) to break the window so that he could escape the hideout.

 

I was also expecting Megan to use her reality warping powers to warp Prof for a version of him who hadn't gone Epic.  Although if gifting doesn't work on other Epics, reality warping probably doesn't work either.

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Fixed! :)

Awww thanks!

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Regalia likely wouldn't have triggered the bomb until Prof was close to it.  The whole point was to allow Prof to get close enough to it that his force fields would actually work to block it.  If he was a ways away from it, then he wouldn't be able to do more than protect himself.  He probably would have used less of his powers than he did during the fight against Steelheart.  So if David had managed to persuade Prof, then it's possible that the outcome we saw could have been avoided.

 

As for Megan -

 

Prof wasn't going to listen.  I think he'd decided that Megan was corrupted, and any actions on her part that seemed to indicate otherwise were merely subterfuge on her part to try and seduce David (and Prof believed David to be too distracted by his hormones to notice anything that indicated otherwise).  He's had to deal with the corruption, along with the temptation to use his powers, for a good chunk of his life.  He knows how difficult it is to resist the corruption.  And so far as he knows, he's the only Epic that's managed to do so (Conflux is a bit of an unusual case, as he's managed to completely avoid using his powers by giving them away).  Not only that, but he's had experience with other epics that have tried to resist the corruption, and failed miserably (one of them is why they're in the city, in fact...).

 

Even Megan herself indicates that she's only managed to avoid using her powers for a few days prior to her second meeting with David.  The problem is that the power - like a certain infamous One Ring - apparently *wants* to be used.  Absent any motivation otherwise, an epic will eventually use their power "just because".  Megan has a motivation; she wants to avoid the sociopathy that the powers bring.  But she still finds it difficult to avoid using them.  Given that, it's not really a surprise that Prof finds it difficult to believe that Megan is stringing David along.

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One question....one wild speculation....

 

A: Why didnt prof gift the tensor ability to david mid way through the book? He told him to use the Spiral instead and said something about the powers would mix....i feel like there's something there beyond lazy storytelling (eg: Author doesn't want him to be too powerful)   or is it simplly since the machine works on Epic DNA....you kind of....become an epic sort of when using it or if your gifted powers....that would explain why all the diggers eventually went mad...and why david gets so reckless when he has gifted powers or Epic machines. Surely even with gifting there is some consequences....

 

anywho...

 

B: Wild  Calamity Speculation....what if we really look at this from the Brandon Sanderson eye...The multiverse eye....What if "this reality" was never meant to have calamity....aka: there is no logic to its/his arrival.....but there is a meghan from another reality, whos big fear was dieing alone and she broke into "a reality where the potential exists that she didn't have to be alone" and brought calamity with her to set the chain reaction that would eventually bring her to David...or someone she loves. Thats why love "is really the secret" because if your weakness is your fear then your strength (how to avoid madness) is overcoming your weakness/fear. 

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One question....one wild speculation....

 

A: Why didnt prof gift the tensor ability to david mid way through the book? He told him to use the Spiral instead and said something about the powers would mix....i feel like there's something there beyond lazy storytelling (eg: Author doesn't want him to be too powerful)   or is it simplly since the machine works on Epic DNA....you kind of....become an epic sort of when using it or if your gifted powers....that would explain why all the diggers eventually went mad...and why david gets so reckless when he has gifted powers or Epic machines. Surely even with gifting there is some consequences....

 

anywho...

 

B: Wild  Calamity Speculation....what if we really look at this from the Brandon Sanderson eye...The multiverse eye....What if "this reality" was never meant to have calamity....aka: there is no logic to its/his arrival.....but there is a meghan from another reality, whos big fear was dieing alone and she broke into "a reality where the potential exists that she didn't have to be alone" and brought calamity with her to set the chain reaction that would eventually bring her to David...or someone she loves. Thats why love "is really the secret" because if your weakness is your fear then your strength (how to avoid madness) is overcoming your weakness/fear. 

 

That still does not explain why Calamity is referred to as the Angel of Destruction, Angel of the Apocalypse, Archangel, etc... Also David swore he could see fiery wings coming off of Calamity right before becoming an epic. 

 

Knowing Brandon some really philosophical and religious ideas are going to come to play in this series. As with the rest of his books. I mean, cosmere has real divinities and I speculate that we are going to see some cool stuff come out of Rithmatist 

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That still does not explain why Calamity is referred to as the Angel of Destruction, Angel of the Apocalypse, Archangel, etc... Also David swore he could see fiery wings coming off of Calamity right before becoming an epic. 

 

I feel like I might be missing something. Why does this have to be explained? David explained that both Regalia and Obliteration have religious backgrounds. They bought into an idea that Calamity was an angel sent to end life on Earth. Calamity himself may even have decided on the title seeing as he is in communication with Regalia, who is in communication with Obliteration. What are we looking for?

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I find it interesting that Calamity is described similarly to a star, and Lucifer means Light-bringer.

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I find it interesting that Calamity is described similarly to a star, and Lucifer means Light-bringer.

 

Then if calamity redeems itself (somehow), this'll happen:

 

500px-Thanks_Satan_._I_found_out_about_t

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One question....one wild speculation....

 

A: Why didnt prof gift the tensor ability to david mid way through the book? He told him to use the Spiral instead and said something about the powers would mix....i feel like there's something there beyond lazy storytelling (eg: Author doesn't want him to be too powerful)   or is it simplly since the machine works on Epic DNA....you kind of....become an epic sort of when using it or if your gifted powers....that would explain why all the diggers eventually went mad...and why david gets so reckless when he has gifted powers or Epic machines. Surely even with gifting there is some consequences....

It's already been established that Epic powers can't be gifted to other Epics.  It doesn't seem too far fetched that gifting Epic powers would make using other machine-gifted Epic powers difficult or impossible.

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I find it interesting that Calamity is described similarly to a star, and Lucifer means Light-bringer.

 

Another good point. I think there is more to the angel thing than people are speculating. I mean David swore he saw wings too. Plus it would not be unlike Brandon to throw some religious debate into his books. 

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Another good point. I think there is more to the angel thing than people are speculating. I mean David swore he saw wings too. Plus it would not be unlike Brandon to throw some religious debate into his books. 

 

My best guess to the series is that Calamity is an allusion to the apple in the Garden of Eden, or Pandora's box. A manifestation of temptation incarnate. 

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