Sirscott13

Firefight talk (SPOILERS!!! do not read before book)

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The biggest issue with David being an Epic is figuring out how he fooled the dowser.

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I also got the feeling that she was reffering to the surgery. Epics can "gift" their powers with machinery.

 

Regarding David, am I the only one who thinks he DID get his epic powers? He's a high epic, but he doesn't realize it because he didn't do the usual rampage. Right when thee powers should have taken hold, while trying to resist, he looked at the water (which had nearly killed him multiple times over the course of the book, and was most certainly his weakness) and decided he didn't fear it, he would rather drown himself than go on a "rending." Boom, fear faced and negated, and without that initial rampage, he doesn't recognize his new abilities. Except that later, twice, he miraculously cheats death. First, when confronting Obliteration, he notes that the forcefield momentarily fails, and half of his body is vaporized. And then it's back, regeenrated a fraction of a moment later. It's never mentioned again. The force field continues to break down, leaving him injured, but not mortally so, so if his power is regenerative like Megan's, it wouldn't activate. Later, Prof tries to crush him with a forcefield, has him trapped, compresses it, and magically, the shrunken field is somehow outside of David, as though he teleported himself out. Megan is in the process of regenerating, so he likely puts it down to her influence, but my money says David has epic powers.

 

I thought this too, although Megan changing reality by pulling an unhurt David back to RL works too.

 

I called Calamity being an Epic before the book started.

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So Megan is now end-game Elizabeth?

 

"I can see all the doors, and what's behind all the doors"

"They're a million million worlds. All different and all similar. Constants and variables."

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If David was an epic:

 

Touching prof granted him powers rather than being gifted, but it would work in the same way and wear out as he used them. Coming back from death when fighting obliteration shows that he took a ton of power, but I debate whether prof granted him the gifts or if he stole a chunk of them. It would have to wear off though because he did have to lay as an invalid after fighting obliteration. 

 

(On the note of obliteration does it scare anyone that he just left after finding out his weakness was tied to his nightmare?)

 

Touching obliteration could have granted him some of that power or maybe it was just Megan moving him as she was regenerating who's to say?

 

He also touched Dawnslight asking him for help as prof was coming. Maybe he just didn't know how to use the powers subconsciously or maybe he sent the cookies to Missouri. 

 

He touched Megan but perhaps he just did not know how to use the powers.

 

I might be willing to believe he stole powers and just did not know how to use them. If it is anything similar to gifting the powers it may need practice to use like the tensor powers. Where as subconscious powers like the defensive shield and healing can be used without practice. 

 

I could fall either way. Obliteration did mention that the Archangel had granted David some of his might. It would be a good plot twist, but he may just be ordinary also. I think it would be prophetic though since David would technically be the first one to be a "good" epic followed by megan. His dads beliefs would then manifest in his son. Just my speculation though...

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Yep, that's what I was thinking, ChocolateRob. As if Megan wasn't awesome enough already.

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I had thought that Megan was moving the forcefield rather than David, although now that I think about it, it would be a lot easier to move David. David happening to stand somewhere else is much more likely than Prof missing with his forcefield.

 

I'm thinking that if David can Steal powers that he would have to do so consciously, it's just that a side effect of this ability allows him to be Gifted powers as well, and he is able to master the powers relatively quickly.

 

Actually, I'll have to figure out a timeline, but maybe the amount of time it takes him to figure out the powers is related to how much of the power he has? It seems like it took him longer to master the Tensors than the Spyril, although it could just be that I read Firefight in 7 hours so it feels like everything went by really fast...

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Possibly, depending on how it works. Prof still seems to get weaker when gifting to David, so it'd have to be more like David stealing the Epic's power, rather than copying their abilities.

 

Prof gifted to Megan before the series started and probably during Steelheart (She had been training in using the Tensors, even if she had problems making them work and had a shield jacket.) without noticing she wasn't properly receiving the gift, which implies gifting to an Epic  (even if it doesn't work) doesn't noticeably feel different from gifting to a non Epic..

Edited by Dahak
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I don't buy that David is afraid of water, because he spent most of the book around water. True fear is not something that can be overcome that easily.

 

My theory is that David is afraid of becoming an Epic. That's his nightmare. So, "being an Epic" is his weakness as an Epic.

 

When Calamity granted him Epic powers, he didn't reject them. But his weakness kicks in all the time, so it is as if he didn't get any powers.

 

As far as we know, Epic + weakness = normal. Since David is always weak, he is the same as any normal person. He was able to receive Prof's gifts even though he was an Epic.

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Prof gifted to Megan before the series started and probably during Steelheart (She had been training in using the Tensors, even if she had problems making them work and had a shield jacket.) without noticing she wasn't properly receiving the gift, which implies gifting to an Epic  (even if it doesn't work) doesn't noticeably feel different from gifting to a non Epic..

Not sure I follow. I was always under the impression that Prof had tried to gift powers to Megan to train her in using the tensors, and assumed that it had worked, but that Megan simply couldn't figure out how to use the power. Never does it mention that Prof succeeded in gifting Megan, only that she couldn't use the tensors. Then they say that Epics can't gift to other Epics. I wouldn't discount something stated that firmly so quickly. Is it so hard to believe that David just didn't get Epic powers?

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I agree again with that number person. I don't think we ever actually saw Megan successfully use any of Prof's powers. I think what we saw happen with David was legit - ie: he's not an epic (although this is Brandon we're talking about so who knows)

 

Perhaps now that Megan has beaten her weakness she could give up her powers if she wanted to as well? Or maybe there is only a single opportunity event to do that.

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There are many things I could say about Firefight (and if I ever get my thoughts organised enough, I'll probably say some of them) but the biggest thing that's on my mind since I woke up this morning, two days post-Firefight is:

Male!Firefight and Megan's powers are supposedly the inverse of each other, and there's a relation there with regard to their weaknesses. (He wields fire, her weakness is fire.)

So, what's Male!Firefight's weakness? Alternate realities? :S

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Prof gifted to Megan before the series started and probably during Steelheart (She had been training in using the Tensors, even if she had problems making them work and had a shield jacket.) without noticing she wasn't properly receiving the gift, which implies gifting to an Epic  (even if it doesn't work) doesn't noticeably feel different from gifting to a non Epic..

 

 

Not sure I follow. I was always under the impression that Prof had tried to gift powers to Megan to train her in using the tensors, and assumed that it had worked, but that Megan simply couldn't figure out how to use the power. Never does it mention that Prof succeeded in gifting Megan, only that she couldn't use the tensors. Then they say that Epics can't gift to other Epics. I wouldn't discount something stated that firmly so quickly. Is it so hard to believe that David just didn't get Epic powers?

 

I also remember Megan saying in Steelheart that her shield jacket fails all the time. It is written in a context that makes it seem like it's working, but often fails, but the reality is probably that it fails literally all the time.

They weren't able to use the "harmsway" to heal her either. 

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There is one thing that doesnt make sense is that Regalia flooded the city so why didnt the water go down? Steel is a solid so it makes sense that it stayed steel but this is water we're talking about. Water that goes uphill should take an epic to power that...but now Regalia is dead... The water should just flop down...

Edited by Ragsiez
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The water did go down, as soon as David killed her. It was mentioned several times. The roots of Dawnslight's plants kept the buildings from collapsing.

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The water did go down, as soon as David killed her. It was mentioned several times. The roots of Dawnslight's plants kept the buildings from collapsing.

Oh, well...silly me.

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Yeah, I've missed a lot more than that a couple times when reading too fast  :rolleyes:

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Male!Firefight and Megan's powers are supposedly the inverse of each other, and there's a relation there with regard to their weaknesses. (He wields fire, her weakness is fire.)

So, what's Male!Firefight's weakness? Alternate realities? :S

 

This makes sense!  This is why Megan said "I can get him to do what I want ..." when she brought him to her reality since the male Firefight cannot do anything he wishes in alternate realities.

 

This is brilliant!

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I don't think that can be it. If that's the case, wouldn't he lose his fire powers when in our reality? Well, not "our" reality, but you know what I mean :P 

I suppose it's possible that he isn't fully in our reality so his powers aren't fully stopped, but I still find it hard to believe. Besides, that would make him basically impossible to kill in his own reality.

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Not sure I follow. I was always under the impression that Prof had tried to gift powers to Megan to train her in using the tensors, and assumed that it had worked, but that Megan simply couldn't figure out how to use the power. Never does it mention that Prof succeeded in gifting Megan, only that she couldn't use the tensors. Then they say that Epics can't gift to other Epics. I wouldn't discount something stated that firmly so quickly. Is it so hard to believe that David just didn't get Epic powers?

 

I agree with you.  Since Prof does not know if he succeeded in gifting his power to people, there is a possibility that David is already an Epic, an epic who's capable of taking (or cloning) power from other epics, thus his abilities to dust metals (in disguise with the tensor), to manipulate water (in disguise of spyril), etc.  Even David himself does not know about this.  When Calamity tried to "gift" power to him, he received the new power anyway.  Although Edmund/Conflux commented that epics cannot gift power to other epics, David is unique in this way because he's an epic that takes power from other epics.  This "rule" does not apply to him.  I think there is one condition that David must do before he could freely use his new found powers, that is, he must PRACTICE.

 

 

 

I believe David might already have attained the power to alter realities but he can't do this yet since he never practiced.  So I believe it was all Megan's doing in the end saving David from Prof's deadly forcefield globe.

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I very much doubt that David could have been an Epic all along, he didn't confront his fear until very recently. I think his affinity for powers is unrelated, but it would make it thematically appropriate for Calamity to give him the ability to steal other Epics powers.

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I don't think that can be it. If that's the case, wouldn't he lose his fire powers when in our reality? Well, not "our" reality, but you know what I mean :P

I suppose it's possible that he isn't fully in our reality so his powers aren't fully stopped, but I still find it hard to believe. Besides, that would make him basically impossible to kill in his own reality.

 

Good point.  But this makes him even more invincible coz his weakness serves as an advantage to him as long as he's in his own reality.

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The climax was absolutely sweet. This book rocked my socks off.

 

Seeing Regalia at the end was like... seeing Darth Vader with his mask off. The terrible, powerful villain you thought existed is actually a pitiful wretch. I loved it. Though I think the true climax was when David was racing through the city using the Spyrill, dodging tentacles of water. Just trying to imagine that image made my mind want to explode with awesomeness.

 

Though. admittedly, my reaction to the book might just be the fact that I've been on Brandon Sanderson Withdrawal. I haven't read anything new by him for... months.

Edited by mckeedee123
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Not sure I follow. I was always under the impression that Prof had tried to gift powers to Megan to train her in using the tensors, and assumed that it had worked, but that Megan simply couldn't figure out how to use the power. Never does it mention that Prof succeeded in gifting Megan, only that she couldn't use the tensors. Then they say that Epics can't gift to other Epics. I wouldn't discount something stated that firmly so quickly. Is it so hard to believe that David just didn't get Epic powers?

 

It means you can't assume Prof would notice that he'd just tried to gift David and failed, since he did that to Megan without noticing. Which means any noticeable drain in power has to still happen when trying to gift to an Epic.

 

Which means we can't rule out Calamity having actually given David an Epic power despite his refusal so long as that power is some form of duplication effect.

 

Not that the mechanism of Gifting doesn't seem to have changed between the two books. In Steelheart it was implied the ability stayed with someone until cancelled by the Gifter. In Firefight it seems to be a limited charge is transferred and when used up or you move out of range the ability is lost.

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This book arrived Thursday afternoon for me, and I'd finished it early Friday morning... never read a book that quickly before. I love Brandon's Cosmere works, but man, these Reckoner books are addicting. 

 

Anyways, thoughts... dang it prof, why you gotta go be so stupid? David's almost always reckless, but he's also almost always got the right idea. If you'd listened to him about Megan, you'd have been safe. David, why you gotta go be so stupid? If you'd explained your non-mobile interactions with Megan, you'd probably have been a lot more convincing. 

 

As others have said, Megan was awesome in this book, and not just because she has ridiculous powers. She knows similes from metaphors and isn't afraid to preach the difference, she knows her strengths and weaknesses, and plays them both for maximum survivability even in the face of the only thing that can really kill her, and she turns the safety on as a symbol of true love. (Maybe my favorite moment from the book?)

 

Quick annoyance that I had about the first encounter with Obliteration: Brandon ANTI-FORESHADOWED. What the heck, man? Prof deliberately gives David tensor powers despite explicitly saying they probably wouldn't be much use in Babilar. David goes and gets himself ball-and-chained, and what does he do? He lets himself almost drown, only saved by the benevolent Megan. He should've easily been able to tensor the chain and be free, so I'm annoyed that he didn't. I know he was scared because of the water, but being scared hasn't reduced his fairly impressive survival instincts at all before. Urgh.

 

Now, for the first time, I'm caught up in one of Brandon's ongoing series... it's both a terrible and wonderful feeling. The wait will suck, but that's what I have a life for, right? To fill up the space between Branderson books :P

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Quick annoyance that I had about the first encounter with Obliteration: Brandon ANTI-FORESHADOWED. What the heck, man? Prof deliberately gives David tensor powers despite explicitly saying they probably wouldn't be much use in Babilar. David goes and gets himself ball-and-chained, and what does he do? He lets himself almost drown, only saved by the benevolent Megan. He should've easily been able to tensor the chain and be free, so I'm annoyed that he didn't. I know he was scared because of the water, but being scared hasn't reduced his fairly impressive survival instincts at all before. Urgh.

 

Maybe David was not used to using tensor powers with bare hands. He only used the gloves before, which took him lots of time to practice for accuracy. And Calamity knows what could happen when using tensor in water.

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