Sirscott13

Firefight talk (SPOILERS!!! do not read before book)

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*SPOILERS*
 
 
 
 
 
So having power read the book in five hours after release, I think it is time to start the discussions.
 
1.)    Calamity is an epic. Wow I really did not expect that. What worries me even more is that he is called an angel by both major epic enemies. I can understand Obliteration with his hook up on religion to call Calamity an archangel of destruction but then having the calm collected Regalia call him the Angel of the Apocalypse and the Destroying Angel made me think there might be more to it. What's more is where the heck did he came from?

 

2.)    Prof is going to be worse than Steelheart. His powers make him pretty powerful. I mean his healing and shielding are defensive plus his disintegration and forcefields can be used offensively. Combine that with his cleverness and enhanced physical abilities, he will be tough to deal with. Hopefully Tia knows his weakness. I have a feeling she might be able to figure it out with David though. I hope they use David's idea to keep him from using his powers until he reverts back to normal. He is such an interesting character and he and David need more of those chats. 

 

3.)    Firefight can swap realities. That alone makes her as interesting a character as anyone. I always thought she reminded me of a phoenix the way she resurrects and combine that with her alternate male self being a fire epic makes me feel like Brandon was going somewhere with that. Swapping realities could be useful especially if she can control herself now. 

 

4.)    Weaknesses and secret to controlling powers. I think the weaknesses are either related to their worst fears or a trauma from their past life that almost killed them. (makes me wonder what Fortuity's story was haha). I am also surprised that fear is the key to controlling powers. It seems to me like someone would have been brave enough to face their fears at some point since Calamity. I kind of wish David did get some cool powers but was able to control them instead but I guess the lack of powers makes him so interesting. 

 

well that about wraps up my opinions cannot wait to hear yours!

 

 

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I'm still hopeful that David is going to end up with some powers, not flashy or godly ones, but something simple and unexpected. My favorite part is when Megan appeared at dawnslights home in control of everything. Totally had a Phoenix vibe. It was really interesting how she remembered everything. Her powers seemed godly, but that might have been part of the rebirth process she mentioned. Curious to see if it remains as strong.

I would love to see a reckoners movie.

Edited by lordofsoup
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I would love to see a reckoners movie.

 

wouldn't we all.

 

Oh man I just finished the book and I am now scraping my blown mind off the wall. 

 

Gota say I loved how Brandon sets up the obligatory young adult love triangle and then crushes it a few chapters later I just didn't expect this at all. Megan cheating death at the end by shooting herself was pretty brilliant as was her warping reality to the point that even in his supper powered state prof seemed genuinely unnerved by her. My one complaint.... it's gona be a long year. <_<

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I didn't understand how dawnslight wasn't destructive. I know he's "stuck" but his power did manifest in the real world, I didn't know how his thoughts didn't become dark using his power. Other than that, great book. Hopefully they don't have to kill prof

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I didn't understand how dawnslight wasn't destructive. I know he's "stuck" but his power did manifest in the real world, I didn't know how his thoughts didn't become dark using his power. Other than that, great book. Hopefully they don't have to kill prof

I also thought something strange was going on with Dawnslight but I have a theory for it: 

We know that the evil in epics is linked to fear. What would someone who has been in a coma for the majority of their life have to fear? If he went into a coma as a child then his fear was probably irrational and childish, and those are by far the easiest fears to overcome. We also know that overcoming fear can counter the evil in epics (David overcame his fear and was able to reject epic powers), so maybe he has overcome his fear.

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I also thought something strange was going on with Dawnslight but I have a theory for it:

We know that the evil in epics is linked to fear. What would someone who has been in a coma for the majority of their life have to fear? If he went into a coma as a child then his fear was probably irrational and childish, and those are by far the easiest fears to overcome. We also know that overcoming fear can counter the evil in epics (David overcame his fear and was able to reject epic powers), so maybe he has overcome his fear.

I'll buy that, he probably did it without even knowing either. I tore this book so fast, other things start to pop up. I like how the Dr's coming to the city earlier in the book came full circle with regalia and the big c. Was it mentioned or confirmed if she did augment epics though? Edited by tbone
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I'll buy that, he probably did it without even knowing either. I tore this book so fast, other things start to pop up. I like how the Dr's coming to the city earlier in the book came full circle with regalia and the big c. Was it mentioned or confirmed if she did augment epics though?

It was probably more Calamity's work than hers. Her having cancer sort of made me feel a little better about David killing her. This may sound terrible, but I know that it is extremely painful to live with, as my grandmother died of Pancreatic Cancer October of 2013 and, as a loved one you can see that they are suffering terribly. Though I also felt that she kinda deserved that suffering after killing millions of people. It may have also been the reason she gained a touch of her sanity back as she no longer needed to fear death as she knew it was already upon her.

Edited by gjustice99
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Here's a question that just occurred to me. Regalia says to David at the end that all Epics, in the right circumstances, can be gifters. What kind of circumstances would that be? Taking into account Prof, Conflux and Digzone (what little we know about them). Is it related to fear as well? Or it's opposite, courage? It also means that all the Epics could potentially be good, if we're still going with the theory that gifting their powers can keep the Epics sane indefinitely.

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I could be totally wrong but I thought she was referring to the "surgery" she was performing on other epics.

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I also got the feeling that she was reffering to the surgery. Epics can "gift" their powers with machinery.

 

Regarding David, am I the only one who thinks he DID get his epic powers? He's a high epic, but he doesn't realize it because he didn't do the usual rampage. Right when thee powers should have taken hold, while trying to resist, he looked at the water (which had nearly killed him multiple times over the course of the book, and was most certainly his weakness) and decided he didn't fear it, he would rather drown himself than go on a "rending." Boom, fear faced and negated, and without that initial rampage, he doesn't recognize his new abilities. Except that later, twice, he miraculously cheats death. First, when confronting Obliteration, he notes that the forcefield momentarily fails, and half of his body is vaporized. And then it's back, regeenrated a fraction of a moment later. It's never mentioned again. The force field continues to break down, leaving him injured, but not mortally so, so if his power is regenerative like Megan's, it wouldn't activate. Later, Prof tries to crush him with a forcefield, has him trapped, compresses it, and magically, the shrunken field is somehow outside of David, as though he teleported himself out. Megan is in the process of regenerating, so he likely puts it down to her influence, but my money says David has epic powers.

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By the way, I saw Prof going evil the whole book long. Before they even went to Glitter Land (I mean, Babilar).

Hey, what would David's weakness be if he became an Epic? Like, other than the water thing.

(And I doubt Calamity is quite an Epic. Just throwing that out there as well.)

PS I did not realise Megan could teleport.

PPS I hope they beat Prof by Megan switching him to a different him from an alternate universe thing. That would be cool.

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makes me wonder what Fortuity's story was haha

Exactly what I was thinking  :lol:

 

I also got the feeling that she was reffering to the surgery. Epics can "gift" their powers with machinery.

 

Regarding David, am I the only one who thinks he DID get his epic powers? He's a high epic, but he doesn't realize it because he didn't do the usual rampage. Right when thee powers should have taken hold, while trying to resist, he looked at the water (which had nearly killed him multiple times over the course of the book, and was most certainly his weakness) and decided he didn't fear it, he would rather drown himself than go on a "rending." Boom, fear faced and negated, and without that initial rampage, he doesn't recognize his new abilities. Except that later, twice, he miraculously cheats death. First, when confronting Obliteration, he notes that the forcefield momentarily fails, and half of his body is vaporized. And then it's back, regeenrated a fraction of a moment later. It's never mentioned again. The force field continues to break down, leaving him injured, but not mortally so, so if his power is regenerative like Megan's, it wouldn't activate. Later, Prof tries to crush him with a forcefield, has him trapped, compresses it, and magically, the shrunken field is somehow outside of David, as though he teleported himself out. Megan is in the process of regenerating, so he likely puts it down to her influence, but my money says David has epic powers.

Interesting idea, I like it. I'll have to look closer the second time through, but I think David's forcefield had completely failed and everything after that was the healing ability. I think the scene at the end with Megan was just her choosing realities, but who knows.

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I think David actually getting powers would be a bit of a cop-out with the possible exception of being a Gifter. His strength lies in his ability to connect with and understand Epics, letting him suddenly just shoot lasers from his eyes would undermine his character a lot. However with the absence of Prof the Reckoners do need some kind of substitute for his Gifting to help them survive Epic fights, though this could come from Megans powers getting technified and letting characters resurrect.

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Didn't notice this thread earlier, but as Stroniax points out, David was gifted powers by Prof. I had forgotten that Epics can't receive gifted powers, so unless something really weird is going on that seems like pretty good evidence that David is not an Epic.

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Did anyone get a Ruin vibe out of calamity when he interacted with david?

Edited by tbone
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moving this to the Firefight spoiler forum...

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I half expected Calamity to be an Epic, though admittedly I thought it would be an epic named after the Calamity in the sky. I remembered from reading somewhere that the third book would be called Calamity, and the other two books have been the names of Epics so far, so it makes sense that the third one wouldn't deviate. I found David's interpretation -- that Calamity was simply an all-powerful Epic who gifts pieces of his powers to ordinary people -- to be very interesting. It seems like it fits, though as anyone who's read Sanderson's books knows, what seems obvious or fitting at first can be completely wrong in the end. Given that we don't know anything for sure, though, there's still the questions of who, what, where, why, and how, all in relation to Calamity himself. Can't wait to see what comes of that.

 

I found the ending scene with Megan to be fascinating. We've never seen anything like her powers before, (though, granted, Prof's pretty unique too) and it makes me wonder if there's something special about her, or if she really is just another Epic. She said that her power is strongest just after reincarnating, and that's obviously true. When it wears off, she isn't all that powerful (as she herself said), but when she's in all her glory.... The ability to basically reshape reality to whatever you want, as long as in any of the infinite possible universes that exist there is at least one where what you want to happen happens, is pretty godlike. I was practically giggling when she moved Prof's force field bubble around and scared him. It'll be interesting to see if her powers get weaker again (though for plot's sake, I can't see any other option. Can you imagine having what is essentially God on your side?) or if they stay as powerful as they were when we last saw them. Similarly, I am also curious to know if -- now that she's come back once after facing her fears without corruption -- her powers can now be used without any corruption again, or if that was simply a one-time deal.

 

As far as Dawnslight goes, I'm interested to see what happens to him. Regalia said that she wanted Prof there as a successor, so I think it's reasonable to assume that he'll take over rule of Babilar, (Babylon Restored --> Babyl R --> Babilar. Thought that was clever.) in which case, he'll also have control of Dawnslight, won't he? Dawnslight would be pretty difficult to move out of there, comatose as he is, and I'm guessing Prof will want to keep him alive and secure, much like Steelheart did with Conflux. Prof is pretty much evil now, but he's not stupid. He'll realize the effect that killing Dawnslight will have; all the food and light would suddenly be gone, and perhaps his plants holding up the buildings would die too. Not great circumstances for a stable government. However, considering how Dawnslight rebelled against Regalia, I wonder what Prof would do if Dawnslight did the same to him. This is why I mentioned that I'm interested to see what happens to him. On the one hand, he provides a necessary resource. On the other, he'd be defying a High Epic, and we all know they don't have much patience for insubordination.

 

Honestly, I almost expect them to take down Prof relatively quickly in the next book. Presumably it will be the last in the series, and they'll have to deal with both Evil Prof and Calamity. For all that Prof is a huge danger and a fallen friend, I feel that Calamity will be the main focus of the book (and not just because of the title). I suppose it's possible that they could juggle dealing with both Prof and Calamity at the same time, or maybe they'll just deal with Calamity, removing all Epic powers (and therefore saving Prof and the rest of the world) in doing so.

 

 

TL;DR: OMG

 

Can't wait to see what comes next, and the year can't go fast enough. Sorry for the huge post.

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[...]my money says David has epic powers.

 

I agree with you Lady Radagu! I posit that David's power is copying powers from epics that he touches. He touches Prof, and gets unusually strong healing powers. He grabs Obliteration, and he later is teleported out of a life-threatening Prof-bubble right before Megan's entrance.

 

Although Megan could have "dimensionally swapped" David out of the bubble, I don't think she's ever shown ability to move people, and earlier she was afraid to mess with David's face, so why would she now swap his entire being? And if she could move people, why not dimensionally swap herself immediately into the fight, or swap Prof really far away?

 

Also, it has been hinted several times that David has a real talent for adopting gifted powers (e.g. the tensors and the water jet pack). And Epics seem to manifest powers related to their past, so David's obsession with collecting data on Epics' powers has now been translated into actually collecting Epics' powers.

 

But either way, I can't wait for book 3 to find out what happens (which will undoubtedly surprise all of us).

Edited by seebol
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Also, it has been hinted several times that David has a real talent for adopting gifted powers (e.g. the tensors and the water jet pack). And Epics seem to manifest powers related to their past, so David's obsession with collecting data on Epics' powers has now been translated into actually collecting Epics' powers.

Actually, Epics manifest weaknesses related to thier past. As far as we know, the powers have nothing to do with it. Take Mitosis, for example. How is something in his past going to translate into a power that lets him copy himself? Or Megan, who's power has nothing to do with fire? In fact, she says that Firefight is her dimensional opposite, as fire is his power, while it's her weakness.

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Didn't notice this thread earlier, but as Stroniax points out, David was gifted powers by Prof. I had forgotten that Epics can't receive gifted powers, so unless something really weird is going on that seems like pretty good evidence that David is not an Epic.

 

If David's power is something like gains the abilities of other Epics for a period after being near them, we wouldn't be able to tell.

 

Or has Phaedrus's ability set or the set of all the abilities he's ever been affected by.

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If David's power is something like gains the abilities of other Epics for a period after being near them, we wouldn't be able to tell.

 

Or has Phaedrus's ability set or the set of all the abilities he's ever been affected by.

Possibly, depending on how it works. Prof still seems to get weaker when gifting to David, so it'd have to be more like David stealing the Epic's power, rather than copying their abilities. That does seem like it could be "thematically appropriate" though, and Regalia did have that whole line about how Prof isn't as unique as he thinks.

If "stealers" exist, I wonder how many there have been, I'd imagine most people wouldn't often get the chance to use the ability.

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Ha. Ha! I was on the weaknesses boat for a long time! Well, kind of hanging by the side instead of riding it, but still on the boat!

 

As for the book itself... the ending didn't hit me as hard as I expected. Virtually every other book by Brandon had an ending more striking than this one (to me, and except Alcatraz). This... not that it was bad, but I think Regalia's death (or rather the triviality of it) undermined it a little for me. Prof's complete surrender to the Dark Epic Side was definitely top notch, Megan's return was foreshadowed beautifully, though not very subtly (it was only a few pages between David thinking that she will come back at sunrise and him remarking that the sun hadn't quite risen yet). The implications of Prof's vast knowledge of the Reckoners could be pretty devastating - though I suspect he and Tia must've come up with a contingency plan for situations like this; if not his weakness, then at least a way to quickly relocate all of the Reckoners to a location unknown to Prof. And still... this didn't have the same zing.

 

But other than the ending, I was really happy with the rest. Megan's plan to shoot herself - brilliant. I thought David would end up being the one to take her out before the fire gets to her, but this works too; it might even work better, because yay for smart women! And on that note - Mizzy was such a joy to read! I knew a girl kind of like her in high school (also dark-skinned, interestingly), and while she was all sorts of not right for me (not as a friend, not as... colleague, not as a girlfriend), it was marvelous to see her effect on others. I want more Mizzy in Calamity.

 

And speaking of Calamity - of course he is an Epic! I mean, not that I caught it before, but Brandon is nothing if not consistent - so with the two books' titles being Epics' names, in hindsight Calamity makes sense. But there is more here than meets the eye. Angelic references, his ability to communicate with (some?) Epics, his ability to create Epics, but only out of people with a deep, maybe even phobia-like, fear... I feel like the fear thing is going to be key in figuring out Calamity's nature, not just as a tool to disable the Epics' powers. 

 

Man, I've got some psychology research to do...

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If "stealers" exist, I wonder how many there have been, I'd imagine most people wouldn't often get the chance to use the ability.

Stealer... I like the way that sounds

 

The one problem that I have with that is that David didn't take any of Megans power despite being in very close contact with her of course it's possible that he simply didn't realize he had taken any abilities or didn't intend to take them. I really like this idea though it would be the perfect power for someone like David, he's even got a Epic name (Steelslayer) ready to go if it does happen.

Edited by Unhinged
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Stealer... I like the way that sounds

 

The one problem that I have with that is that David didn't take any of Megans power despite being in very close contact with her of course it's possible that he simply didn't realize he had taken any abilities or didn't intend to take them. I really like this idea though it would be the perfect power for someone like David, he's even got a Epic name (Steelslayer) ready to go if it does happen.

But would that make him Steelslayer or Stealslayer? :P

*flies away*

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A+ Kasimir

 

I really like the idea of David copying epics powers.  I think it would make a great twist and would make us figure out for ourselves what is happening.  That being said I doubt it will happen.

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