Theory- Capacity and Compassion Are Not Linked by the Nightwatcher's Curse

[NutiketAiel]

The inverse link between Taravangian's "capacity" (read: intellect) and his compassion has always bothered me.  Apparently, it bothers Taravangian, too.

 

 

Blessed with intelligence, cursed with compassion to feel pain for what he had done.  They came inversely.  Why couldn't he have both at once?  He did not think that in other people, intelligence and compassion were tied in such a way.  The Nightwatcher's motives behind her boons and curses were unfathomable.

 

-Words of Radiance, Interlude 14, Page 910 (Hardcover edition)

 

On the days when he is most intelligent, he is at his least compassionate.

 

Or so he believes.

 

Have you guys ever heard of the Milgram Experiment?

 

Basically (and I'm greatly oversimplifying), the participants were told that they were taking part in a teaching experiment.  Whenever the "learner" (who was in another room, and a confederate of the psychologist) got an answer wrong, the participant was told by the psychologist running the experiment to administer an electric shock.  Eventually, the learner would start screaming and begging for mercy, then finally stop responding as the supposed shocks increased in intensity during the course of the experiment.

 

Over 60% of test participants (and this test has been repeated numerous times and in numerous cultures) usually continue with the "shocks" to the fatal level.

 

What does this have to do with Taravangian?

 

The Milgram Experiment was about authority- whether people are willing to override their own moral compass and compassion when ordered to do so by an authority figure.  I've always read a little more into it, though.  It's not just about an authority figure- it's about being able to transfer responsibility for the act to someone else.  In the case of the Milgram Experiment, it was because the participant was "just following orders," thus (in their mind) putting the responsibility for the acts on the shoulders of the psychologist.  Or, to put it in another way:

 

 

"It means taking responsibility," Kaladin said.  "The Uvara, they were happy to kill and murder, so long as they could blame the emperor.  It wasn't until they realized there was nobody to take the responsibility that they showed grief."

 

-Way of Kings, Chapter 57, Page 807 (Hardcover edition)

 

My theory is that the Nightwatcher did not curse Taravangian by inversely linking his compassion and intelligence.  I theorize that this is a lie that he tells to himself, something that he has thoroughly convinced himself of, so that he can continue to do what he thinks is necessary.  Even when he does feel guilt for his actions, he ultimately has someone else to blame- the Nightwatcher, for making him this way.

 

You'd be surprised the sorts of things that people can convince themselves of when they don't want to face an ugly truth.  Especially an ugly truth about themselves.  Or, maybe you wouldn't be surprised- just look at the mental gymnastics that Shallan goes through to forget aspects of her own past.

 

Of course, for this to be true, that would mean that Taravangian does not actually know the curse that the Nightwatcher afflicted him with.  We don't know enough about what happens when someone goes to see the Nightwatcher to know if this is plausible.  Does she tell them what their boon and curse are?  Or are they left to figure it out for themselves?  I have an interesting image in my head of Dalinar leaving the Valley and traveling home, not knowing the nature of his curse was until the first time someone mentioned his late wife.  Lift gives no indication that she is cursed or thinks of herself as cursed, or has any idea what her curse might be (though she doesn't really think of the Nightwatcher or the Old Magic much at all, which doesn't give us much to work with).  Many of the other curses we hear tell of (numb hands, upside-down vision) are obvious in an immediate sensory way, meaning that no explanation would have been necessary from the Nightwatcher.  I suspect we won't know such details of the mechanics of a visit to the Nightwatcher until we actually see one, directly or in flashback.

 

Taravangian is one of the most fascinating characters in the series to me.  I really came to like him in Way of Kings and, when the big reveal about what he was really doing in his hospitals came about at the end, I felt betrayed.  This kindly King, who builds hospitals and loves all, is a mass murderer?  I was thoroughly shocked.  My feelings about Taravangian changed forever in that instant.  He, more than any character in the series so far, earned my ire in that instant.  Learning about the nature of his intelligence/compassion dichotomy in Words of Radiance has not made me feel more charitable towards him.  Instead, I see it as being much like Szeth- committing terrible atrocities because he can find a way, on some level, of blaming someone else.  The idea that the lack of compassion in his diagram is directly caused by a curse rings hollow to me.  I find the idea that Taravangian has desperately convinced himself that his lack of compassion is due to a curse to be much more compelling.

 

And I wonder what the revelation of that fact, should I prove to be right, would do to Taravangian.  The idea that the diagram calls for such cruelty and evil not because his more intelligent self was inherently without compassion thanks to the Nightwatcher, but because of his own choice (conscious or unconscious)...

 

Well, I suspect that it would break him.

[gjustice99]

I also feel like lack of compassion/empathy is not his curse from the Nightwatcher, but for different reasons. In the real world, people at the top end of the intelligence range tend to be socially impaired and not be able to interact with others well. This may just be an extreme case of that.

[NutiketAiel]

I also feel like lack of compassion/empathy is not his curse from the Nightwatcher, but for different reasons. In the real world, people at the top end of the intelligence range tend to be socially impaired and not be able to interact with others well. This may just be an extreme case of that.

 

That makes sense, and it may be a part of it, though I hesitate to attribute that as the sole cause.  There is a difference between being socially maladjusted and totally lacking in compassion.

[Dunkum]

I always sort of interpreted it in a rationality vs emotionality sort of way, assuming that on his most brilliant days, he was highly rational, able to recognize patterns and make logical inferences that would elude a lesser mind, but with pretty much no access to emotions. Note that on one of his good days he claimed to want to do something like forced steriliization (I think that was it) across the whole city, under the assumption that everyone would agree with him once they heard his arguments. that is not the idea of someone who is in touch with emotions, either his own or someone else's. Basically I assumed that his curse was more likley the way the intelligence comes and goes on a day to day basis.

As a side note, I never understood why people always assume the thing with his wife is Dalinar's curse. Asking the Nightwatcher to let him forget her is exactly the sort of stupid thing I could imagine a grieving Dalinar doing, in which case it migth very well be the boon.

[Moogle]

I don't think his observed behavior fits him lying to himself. He's not "excusing" himself or any way, or saying it's the Nightwatcher's fault - he takes full responsibility for every atrocity he commits and cries when he sees what he did to Jah Keved.

 

He happily drafts up plans to have half the population commit suicide when he gets smart enough. During the Milgram experiment, the people shocking others under orders still tend to stress about what they're doing. They don't just transfer responsibility without any issues.

 

The level of neurosis required to be able to just go "hey, everyone should commit suicide this is a great idea and also I'm convinced other people will see that this is a great idea" is... staggering. Considering that we know the Nightwatcher tends to like making her curses/boons Cognitive (see the world upside down, numb hands, Dalinar forgetting his wife) with a few exceptions, it would make sense that Taravangian is also going to have similar issues... which fits very well with his lack of compassion.

 

(Though I'm slightly more inclined to think Taravangian's increased compassion and decreased intelligence is his curse, to regret everything he's doing to save the world. He's a hugely compassionate individual, and just about anyone's going to be crippled by having their sense of compassion turned up to 11.)

 

If you're suggesting Taravangian got a different curse, I'd be interested in some ideas on what they are, though. I don't think we fully understand what's up with Taravangian.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Moogle

[NutiketAiel]

As a side note, I never understood why people always assume the thing with his wife is Dalinar's curse. Asking the Nightwatcher to let him forget her is exactly the sort of stupid thing I could imagine a grieving Dalinar doing, in which case it migth very well be the boon.

 

Dalinar has said that he knows what the Nightwatcher's curse and boon were in a situation where he would not lie, and has thought of the missing memories of his wife as a curse.  To me, that makes it clear that the boon is something different.

 

 

I don't think his observed behavior fits him lying to himself. He's not "excusing" himself or any way, or saying it's the Nightwatcher's fault - he takes full responsibility for every atrocity he commits and cries when he sees what he did to Jah Keved.

 

He happily drafts up plans to have half the population commit suicide when he gets smart enough. The level of neurosis required to be able to do that is... staggering. Considering that we know the Nightwatcher tends to like making her curses/boons Cognitive (see the world upside down, numb hands, Dalinar forgetting his wife) with a few exceptions, it would make sense that Taravangian is also going to have similar issues... which fits very well with his lack of compassion.

 

(Though I'm slightly more inclined to think Taravangian's increased compassion and decreased intelligence is his curse, to regret everything he's doing to save the world. He's a hugely compassionate individual, and just about anyone's going to be crippled by having their sense of compassion turned up to 11.)

 

If you're suggesting Taravangian got a different curse, I'd be interested in some ideas on what they are, though. I don't think we fully understand what's up with Taravangian.

 

During the Milgram experiment, the people shocking others under orders still tend to stress about what they're doing. They don't just transfer responsibility without any issues.

 

Oh, Taravangian definitely has issues.  :-)  However, even though he (at times) struggles with himself and (at times) stresses about what he's doing, he still does it, just like those people in the Milgram Experiment.  I don't think he's consciously transferring responsibility, just like the people hitting those buttons weren't thinking to themselves "if I kill this guy, it is not my fault at all, it's this psychologist's fault."  I think it's happening at a deeper level.  You can consciously take responsibility for something and blame yourself while, on some deeper level, still find a way to put the ultimate blame on someone or something else.

 

I use Szeth as a perfect example of this phenomenon.  He accepts that he bears the stain of the sins he is committing and will experience an eternity of afterlifey punishment as a result, but on another level he still blames his masters, his victims and (when he finds out that he was actually right about the return of the voidbringers and/or Radiants) the stone shamans.  Of course, Szeth is a total basket case, but that doesn't mean that someone else doing similar mental gymnastics couldn't be less subtly crazy.

 

So, the idea of Taravangian suffering from a "staggering" level of neurosis is, I suppose, exactly what I'm suggesting.

 

As for what curse he does suffer... I have no idea.  We simply haven't had enough time with him.  I'll re-read the chapters that contain scenes with him and look for clues, but even if I'm right and he is suffering from a different curse, I doubt I'll find anything.  For my theory to be true, it'd have to be something so subtle that neither he, nor those around him, has ever noticed it as a curse.

 

Or something that is so specific, the circumstances under which it would manifest have not yet occurred.  Which is also a possibility- if we assume that the Nightwatcher is "of Cultivation" in some way, then it is reasonable to assume that is pretty good when it comes to seeing the future.  She could tailor a very specific curse that the victim would not necessarily notice until the most poetic moment, when it finally matters.

[thecatinthehat]

I don't think his observed behavior fits him lying to himself. He's not "excusing" himself or any way, or saying it's the Nightwatcher's fault - he takes full responsibility for every atrocity he commits and cries when he sees what he did to Jah Keved.

Have we seen the exact way he reacts when he is in an above-average intellect state? If I am not mistaken, there is only one chapter from his PoV, and he doesn't look too much emotionless there.

[NutiketAiel]

Have we seen the exact way he reacts when he is in an above-average intellect state? If I am not mistaken, there is only one chapter from his PoV, and he doesn't look too much emotionless there.

 

We have not.  In the only PoV we have from him, his own tests determine that he is of "average" intelligence.

[Cold Fusion]

You guys have no idea how stressed I am about everything going on. 

  On my smart days I can see patterns no mortal should be able to see, but the patterns are the only thing, and I know that I must ignore feeling if they are to work. 

  On the dumb days, I don't see the pattern and all I know is how many people are dying because of me.

Trust me, it is a brutal emotional roller coaster.

[dvoraen]

See, I always looked at it this way:

Both Taravangian's intellect and compassion are exactly what he asked for, because both will be needed (especially compassion). They're both boons, in other words. The curse is that they don't happen at the same time.

Edited January 6, 2015 by dvoraen

[taveren]

that makes a lot of sense dvoraen

[NutiketAiel]

See, I always looked at it this way:

Both Taravangian's intellect and compassion are exactly what he asked for, because both will be needed (especially compassion). They're both boons, in other words. The curse is that they don't happen at the same time.

 

That's a perfectly valid interpretation.  I'll admit I had not considered it from that angle.

[Moogle]

The Nightwatcher gives you what she feels you deserve, and doesn't try to twist things like that. Taravangian's intentions were pure, as far as we know - he was a man who gave his people free healthcare, and in general seems to be a compassionate person. He was compassionate before he went to the Nightwatcher, and all he wanted to do was save the world when he asked for his boon.

 

Because of this, I don't think it's possible his increased compassion was his boon at all. He was already plenty compassionate, and becoming more-so just seems counterproductive. I don't see how it would help anything at all.

[dvoraen]

Sure, I'll buy that, but remember he asked for capacity he said.  Since the Nightwatcher's alterations are apparently neurologically based (source), it could easily mean he gained in his capacity for compassion as well as his intellect, but the curse/side-effect was that he wasn't given the capacity for both at the same time, because that was his limit.  It had to be one or the other, in other words, because he literally couldn't be given a higher capacity to support both simultaneously, so instead it was an inverse relationship that adds up to the same "total space".  I'm not sure how to explain it better yet.

 

As far as compassion goes, it leans heavily towards "Acting with honor," because it's rare that true compassion is a dishonorable thing.  (ref. Lift's interlude and Second Ideal)

Edited January 6, 2015 by dvoraen

[navybrandt]

That Milgram Experiment reminds me of the story Hoid tells about the people on the island that kill people for making a mistake because their ruler commands it.