Lady Radagu

[Firefight Tour] SLC 1/5/15

49 posts in this topic

It's from the ultimate list, but I've wanted to know ever since I read it. :) Anyway, obviously, I did not go to bed and did some transcribing after all. Here's what I got.

 

 

Me: Does being the donor of a Hemalurgic spike have any implications for your afterlife? Or how about the recipient?

B: Um, that is actually going to depend on...okay, yes, it has implications for the afterlife. Yes. Yes.

Me: Okay, so are there a bunch of Scadrian souls wandering the afterlife with holes their personalities or memory or identity? Some with extra parts tacked on?

B: So, it has implications, but they're not exactly the ones that you're assuming. Um, so, in the Cosmere, there is dead, and mostly dead, okay? And this has been shown several times. So, once someone dies, there is a period before they transition. Right? Sazed talks about this um, in, in Mistborn 3, um, and so, most of the implications are before transition. Does that makes sense? Post transition, you're going to have to ask the philosophers, and the theologians, who are the ones that, that talk about the..that. So there's an afterlife, and there's an after-afterlife. Not as many implications for the after-afterlife. Middle? Yes.

 

Me: What exactly was Shai's Soulforging of Ashraven comparing itself to to see how well it sticks? His Spiritual aspect? His Cognitive aspect?

B: It's more Spiritual. Much more Spiritual.

 

Me: If Shai were to gain a Shardblade, then she gave it up, could she create an essence mark that represented the history where she still had the Blade? If she then applied the essence mark could she summon the Shardblade or a copy of it?

B: So, um, doing that sort of thing, like rewriting herself even to be an Allomancer., or something like this....this is possible, but, in order to gain the Investiture she wants to have, she will have to input that much in Investiture, which her current magic system is not capable of doing. Okay? Alright, so, rewrite so that I have a Shardblade would require some sort of hacking of her magic system, which is currently impossible to her in her current situation.

Me: So, if she had had a shardblade and gave it up, she could not rewrite herself to have that back without more input?

B: Um, she could....Yes, exactly. Now rewriting, yes, that would be a lot easier than just rewriting herself so that she had a Shardblade.

Me: That's what I was asking.

B: Yeah, but what you're asking about would be much easier and that probably is within her power, but what that would do is, yeah, that's totally within her power. It would create some weird implications where she's summoning it, and someone else summons it back from her, cause the Shardblade thinks it's held by two people.

Me: So it wouldn't be a copy, it would be the same blade.

B: Yes. Mmm hmm.

 

 

So that's it. We got there rather late, and only got the tail end of the reading, so I'm glad I'll get to read the transcript eventually. And because we got there so late, we didn't get our turn until near the end, but it was fun meeting and chatting with so many other fans.

 

Last of all, I just want to say that every time I meet him (this is my third signing so far), I am so impressed by what a classy guy he is. Even when he's tired, he's so congenial, and not only doesn't seem to mind answering similar questions over and over, but genuinely loves chatting with each of his fans. I know this sounds totally fangirlish, but he is just. so. cool. B)

 

just to double check, these are verbatim, correct?

 

Edit: Anyway added: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1099

Edited by WeiryWriter
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They are.

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Hm. Actually, let's talk about that shardblade question some more. It's quite interesting.

 

My first reading (probably because things were a bit muddled by the initial misunderstanding) makes it look like there was a big divide between these two scenarios when it comes to Forging:

 

1) Shai spends a month in the same room as a Shardblade, but doesn't bond it.

2) Shai bonds a Shardblade, but then give it up.

 

But then as it goes on it becomes clear that Brandon thought Lady was talking about just making up a Shardblade out of whole cloth, and the above two scenarios all the sudden don't necessarily become less distinct. It looks, on the basic level, like all the Forging would be to get an extant Shardblade (on a time-share basis, at least) is just "hey I have a connection to this object". Am I reading this wrong, or is that initial "Shai bonded it once, but then gave it up" actually not all that important to Brandon in his answer?

Edited by Kurkistan
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The whole thing that Shai can't forge herself to have investiture without imputing that much investiture seems to confirm something for a while, which is that investiture follows the laws of conservation of energy. Therefore, one can not use investiture to create more or less investiture, investiture can only change form.

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I kinda interpreted the Shardblade answer as this:

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A) Shai would have to effectively create her own Shardblade if she just tried to Forge herself having one without any connection to one prior.

-

and

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B) If Shai bonds a Shardblade, then unbonds it, then Forges herself to still be bonded to that Shardblade, she can create a "fake" bond to that Shardblade that can "coexist" with another bond, though hilarity would ensue if they both tried summoning it at the same time. 

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Thank you for those questions, Lady Radagu!

 

I am particularly fond of the bit where a Shardblade can have bonds to multiple people. I have this vision in my head of two people fighting and it's like Pacman and one person chases the other until the other gets the Blade ten heartbeats later, and then they reverse positions. I may be a bit crazy from tiredness.

 

I think it's more like super deadly Shardblade tag. When one person gets the Shardblade, they're suddenly it. Better run like Odium wants your Shard in this game, eh? (Yes, I might need sleep...maybe).

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Because Forgery has to do with the Spiritual (which is itself about connections - really, at this point I'm thinking of spiritwebs as a bunch of connections from you to tons of other things, forming a 'web'), it would make sense that Shai could just Forge herself to have a connection to a specific Shardblade she's seen before (she's already got a connection to it if she's seen it). I don't think she'd need to have bonded it before, either, just seen it for plausibility reasons/to have a connection formed to it. I do think having previously bonded the Blade before would make it easier to do, though, because the pre-existing connection she's modifying would be stronger.

 

I guess then my mental model of Forgery has changed to Shai poking and prodding at connections on spiritwebs and convincing them to point to other places, or making some connections stronger and others weaker.

Edited by Moogle
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I'll need to do some mulling on how I model Forgery myself, but I wouldn't be so sure it's just manipulating connections.

Edited by Kurkistan
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Was anyone there who didn't talk to me? Because next time, talk to me. That is all I go to these things for.

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I might be explaining myself poorly on the connections bit. My mental model isn't terribly useful - the 'things' I'd say are floating around in the Spiritual can be almost anything. For example, Shai gave Ashravan a memory of an experience with a woman he found beautiful. I'm just thinking there's some sort of 'beautiful woman' thing/form in the Spiritual, and perhaps a 'meeting' thing/form, and Shai just makes a connection from Ashravan to these Spiritual ideals, somehow weaving them together, and then lets the Cognitive figure out what a 'meeting a beautiful woman' form is to him, giving him a detailed (fake) memory with just a few new connections pinned on to him. (She'd probably have to add more things, like a time/place, but that's the basic idea I'm thinking of for the moment.)

 

This basically solves my issues with how an entire person's history can be carved on a few metal plates in a medieval setting, despite the massive amounts of information needed. The information is procedurally generated by the Cognitive filtering some basic Spiritual things. Shai was probably re-awakening old connections to Spiritual ideals (which she experimented to find) in most cases rather than making new ones wholesale as well. Ashravan's self was familiar with these connections, so they latched on more easily (which is the "plausibility" metric in my thoughts).

Edited by Moogle
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@Moogle

 

Ah, I see. That sounds plausible enough. A bit more loosey-goosey than my own model has been, historically, but then again I need to revisit that model.

 

Was anyone there who didn't talk to me? Because next time, talk to me. That is all I go to these things for.

 

This is a bit of aside, since I was not at the event, but I'd like to mention that I, for one, would enjoy meeting you. ;)

 

Are you going to be with Brandon when he comes to Chicago on Feb. 21st-ish?

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A little bit loosey-goosey is an understatement! I feel my model is too broad, and would allow for almost anything, which makes it pretty useless. (Then again, Forgery does seem broad itself...) I'll be eager to read your updated thoughts when you get the chance to do them.

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Are you going to be with Brandon when he comes to Chicago on Feb. 21st-ish?

 

He wasn't the last few times Brandon came to visit. Obviously things can change, Peter has made it his life's quest to personally correct me when I get something wrong on the forums, so here's to me being very wrong and the upcoming month and warranting a personal visit :D

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Was anyone there who didn't talk to me? Because next time, talk to me. That is all I go to these things for.

If you accompany Brandon to WorldCon this year, I'm sure you'll get quite enough of me. xD
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Was anyone there who didn't talk to me? Because next time, talk to me. That is all I go to these things for.

 

Mr. Ahlstrom: Would you consider posting in the Firefight Full thread or starting your own to let us know which events you'll be going to, so we can be sure not to miss the opportunity to say hi?

 

If you're in Philly on the 27th, I'll say hi. And it seems to be a smallish venue so I can't imagine I'll miss you.

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Was anyone there who didn't talk to me? Because next time, talk to me. That is all I go to these things for.

 

If you guys ever come to Detroit or Flint, MI, I'll give you an earful of pleasantries.

 

Hm. Actually, let's talk about that shardblade question some more. It's quite interesting.

My first reading (probably because things were a bit muddled by the initial misunderstanding) makes it look like there was a big divide between these two scenarios when it comes to Forging:

1) Shai spends a month in the same room as a Shardblade, but doesn't bond it.

2) Shai bonds a Shardblade, but then give it up.

But then as it goes on it becomes clear that Brandon thought Lady was talking about just making up a Shardblade out of whole cloth, and the above two scenarios all the sudden don't necessarily become less distinct. It looks, on the basic level, like all the Forging would be to get an extant Shardblade (on a time-share basis, at least) is just "hey I have a connection to this object". Am I reading this wrong, or is that initial "Shai bonded it once, but then gave it up" actually not all that important to Brandon in his answer?

Given no one really responded, I will go ahead and say no, given the content Brandon stated, the two scenarios are not all that different. I would argue though that the second scenario is probably more plausible for a Forgery, depending on the situation which caused Shai to give the Shardblade up.

Edited by Blaze1616
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Me- So I noticed during my last read through of WoR that when Adolin summoned his blade, it formed from mist in the shape of vines. Does this mean that the Radiant that the blade was originally bonded to was an Edgedancer?

 

Brandon- Yes, yes it does. (He also had a huge mischievous smile)

 

Me- So I was wondering, if Adolin were to make the same exact oaths, could the Shardblade be revived?

 

Brandon- Something more would have to happen.

 

Me- So it could happen if something else also happened?

 

Brandon- Yes.

 

Well. That's unexpected - at least by me! I always thought Adolin would be either Willshaper or Dustbringer; Edgedancer hadn't occured to me, but in some ways it fits him. Hmm. I sure hope all that and the "something else" happens!

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@celder

Very cool. If I recall correctly I believe I'd expected as much, but confirmation is awesome. :)

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Hmm, very interesting. Thanks for posting celder.

 

We know that reviving a dead blade is hard - I wonder how important it is that the person attempting it and the spren involved are "compatible". 

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I really really want Adolin to become an Edgedancer, simply so I can see Kaladin snicker at him (and he would) for being an "Egdedancer".

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I think it would be pretty sweet if Adolin did become an Edgedancer. I don't think it will happen though, I feel like Adolin is interesting enough that he doesnt need to bond a spren. Also how many Kholin Radiants do we need? haha!

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If I had to guess, "something more" would be basically 'cloning' the Nahel bond that the spren/Blade in question had, with Adolin on the receiving end.  In other words, figure a way to place a bond between a human that fits into the torn-away cognition of the spren in question.  Like an organ transplant, except for think parts, and this includes the donor and recipient being compatible.  It wouldn't do much good to emulate a Nahel bond to revive a spren if it gets frazzled almost immediately because the human doesn't operate the right way, I would say.

 

Any wagers on Dalinar figuring this out? :)  At the very least, if someone did, I imagine it would be a massive shift in the Desolation/war effort on humanity's side should the dead spren be able to be revived.

Edited by dvoraen
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I bet a Hemalurgic Spike could do the trick - but only if it was created from a live Radiant, obviously.

 

I can't wait to see what it is - and I'm very certain we will find out...

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