Silus - Shard of Flame

Squires?

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As I've been reading recently in the forums since WoR release, I've heard the term Squires thrown around, being associated with a Knight Radiant and sharing somehow in their magic.  There are hints at this from the end of WoR, particularly with the Lopen (who is one of my favorites of Bridge 4, btw).  What I don't know is where the term comes from and what information we have about it.  I'm assuming there is Word of Brandon to corroborate all this, but since there's so MUCH of it out there, it's a daunting task finding it all.  So can I get some help?  Where can I find WoB about Squires?  Is my understanding of it correct?  Are there things about them that we know that I don't?  Please just fill me in here!

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ARGENT

Shallan has this awesome Memory thing going on, Jasnah has this geolocation thing, Kaladin is a really good fighter - are those just their traits, or is there something supernatural going on?
BRANDON SANDERSON

There is something supernatural about those. Each Order... Well, how about this. If you look at scholars' interpretations, there are some scholars who think that these things are not supernatural, and some who think that they are. But, if you look, many Lightweavers had powerful mnemonic abilities.

ARGENT

So it's definitely tied to the Orders?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It's tied to the Orders. Now, I am not going to say that you've got them all 100% correct, but each Order, there are things that come with Order, things that do not add up from simple the "you get this power plus this power," there is something else going on. And I would say that for Windrunners, watch the number of squires and the power of the squires... these are abnormal for the Windrunners.

ARGENT

And each Order's squires are somehow different from the other Orders'?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeeeaaaa... some Orders do not have them.

This leads me to believe that squires are enhanced abilities that Knights Radiant of some orders possess.

 

EDIT: A hint for finding WOBs is to go on the theoryland interview database and type in a word that you want to know about. That's how I found this WOB, I typed in squires.

Edited by gjustice99
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In WoR, it's mentioned that the Radiants were made up of much more than the knights, which lead to these "squires" - men serving under a Radiant who gain powers of their own. You can see an example of this in Dalinar's Purelake vision, where he sees a bunch of men who aren't in Shardplate take in Stormlight (albeit glowing much more weakly than the Knight herself).

 

Near as we can tell speculation-wise, squires have a bond to a Radiant rather than a bond to a spren, and this gives them the ability to take in Stormlight but not do anything else.

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Welcome back, Silus. Lots to catch up on...

 

EDIT: Oops, looks like you've been kicking around for a bit now, I guess I just didn't notice.  :unsure:

 

This thread has a lot of discussion on squires, if you want to read up. Peter also drops a cryptic hint or two along the way, IIRC.

Edited by Kurkistan
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Kaladin gains Windrunner powers through his Nahel bond with Syl, Bridge 4 gain the ability to absorb Stormlight but without the surges through their bond with Kaladin???

Edited by WEZ313
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I got the impression that it has to do with the nature of a Nahel bond.  A human bonds to a spren and becomes Radiant, but they can also bond to other humans.  Either way, it's safe to say that it's likely due to Honor's Intent that this can happen in the first place.

 

The real question I have, is why would some orders not have or need squires in the first place?  It makes me wonder if the reason squires exist has to do with the purpose of the Order, and what role a squire would play in it outside of fighting and/or bodyguarding their Radiant.

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The real question I have, is why would some orders not have or need squires in the first place?

 

Truthseer's spren seem to impose restrictions that might make recruiting squires difficult. Dustbringers have their whole the world doesn't understand us thing to put them off as well. And Bondsmith's seem to bond to unique spren under unique conditions.

 

Whereas Windrunners have magic leadership powers and so attract more squires.

 

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I always thought the squires were somewhat like how the Koloss in Warbreaker prime gifted their powers, but without the negatives.

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 Koloss in Warbreaker prime gifted their powers

 

Is this some kind of crazy typo, or is Warbreaker Prime really that different from the published novel?

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...And if it is, please put spoilers to unpublished works behind tags.

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Is this some kind of crazy typo, or is Warbreaker Prime really that different from the published novel?

Mythwalker (sometimes called Warbreaker Prime, though I'm not a fan of that terminology) is one of Brandon's unpublished books. It has somethings in common with Warbreaker, like characters named Siri and Vivenna but it is a very different book.  Elements from it have shown up in Warbreaker, Mistborn, and Way of Kings and some of it can found on Brandon's website.

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I wonder if Squires can be promoted? As in a squire learns/gains apprenticeship from a Knight before becoming one himself, learning the craft?
I mean they've got the Armour, the sword and the storming horse! I don't think this is out of the ordinary 

Edited by WEZ313
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None of Dalinar's visions ever showed any Radiant with a Rhyshadium...

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We have some WoBs to suggest that they might well be related.

 

(here's the link for the crucial one)

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I was simply commenting that it was odd.

 

I will now comment that "the crucial one" is the only one that really gives you any idea that they are related at all, and I'm not sure it's even technically a paraphrase. Is that the most concrete WoB we have on the subject?

 

Keep in mind, I absolutely believe there is a connection between Knights Radiant and Rhyshadium. This, therefore, makes it very interesting that we see Radiants with Plate. We see Radiants with Blades. We see Radiants Surgebind and use fabrials. Why don't we ever see them with Rhyshadium? The Purelake vision, at least, is an example of a time that having a Rhyshadium would be tremendously useful, even if no other vision were. And, of course, there's the Prelude. What can we speculate about the conspicuous absence?

 

It might be something simple and boring like coincidence. I wonder if maybe there's more?

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So just in thinking about how the Squire is not bound to a Spren and in the epigraph of WoR 54 says: 

Words of Radiance: Chapter 54 Epigraph said

There came also sixteen of the order of Windrunners, and with them a considerable number of squires, and finding in that place the Skybreakers dividing the innocent from the guilty, there ensued a great debate.
-From Words of Radiance, chapter 28, page 3

 

So obviously they need to be judged and decided guilty or innocent, that means that they are not necessarily bound with the same oaths and obligations right? but they are judged by the Skybreakers which puts them under the jurisdiction of the knights (or indirectly) the Heralds themselves... 

Just my thoughts....

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So just in thinking about how the Squire is not bound to a Spren and in the epigraph of WoR 54 says: 

Words of Radiance: Chapter 54 Epigraph said

 

So obviously they need to be judged and decided guilty or innocent, that means that they are not necessarily bound with the same oaths and obligations right? but they are judged by the Skybreakers which puts them under the jurisdiction of the knights (or indirectly) the Heralds themselves... 

Just my thoughts....

 

I understand that sentence in the meaning that when the WR and their squires arrived, the Skybreakers were dividing the innocent from the guilty among a group that was already there, not that the SB were judging the squires.

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I understand that sentence in the meaning that when the WR and their squires arrived, the Skybreakers were dividing the innocent from the guilty among a group that was already there, not that the SB were judging the squires.

I second that :-)

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Is there any WoB that Lopen is a squire? And that he has no spren?

He said he tried this "Stormlight-thing" ever since Kaladin told about it, why should it work accurately on this one day?

My feeling about the squires is more that the related Knight kind of lends them their upgraded abilities.

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There's no WoB that Lopen doesn't have a spren and is a squire, however: in-world WoR has it WR had squires; Dalinar saw a vision with a Radiant and men, who had no Shards who started to glow; Teft reported he saw 'several of the lads glowing' around the time Lopen inhaled the stromlight from the sphere; consciously inhaling stormlight has been done by all surgebinders so far after they were aware of their spren. 

Edited by Aleksiel
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There's no WoB that Lopen doesn't have a spren and is a squire, however: in-world WoR has it WR had squires; Dalinar saw a vision with a Radiant and men, who had no Shards who started to glow; Teft reported he saw 'several of the lads glowing' around the time Lopen inhaled the stromlight from the sphere; consciously inhaling stormlight has been done by all surgebinders so far after they were aware of their spren. 

 

All of you who say that Lopen is a squire might be right, I don't deny this, but I'd really like to have confirmation from Mr. Sanderson.

 

I know the quote from the in-world book Words of Radiance about Windrunners having squires, Dalinar's vision, Teft mentioning the glowing lads.

As for "all surgebinders", uhm, we know about experiences mostly from Kaladin. We don't know exactly the how Jasnah, Shallan and Renarin found out about their abilities. But all of them more or less had to find out themselves. Lopen knew from Kaladin about inhaling Stormlight, what makes a difference.

 

Sorry about my nitpicking, I merely really want that WoB :).

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All of you who say that Lopen is a squire might be right, I don't deny this, but I'd really like to have confirmation from Mr. Sanderson.

 

I know the quote from the in-world book Words of Radiance about Windrunners having squires, Dalinar's vision, Teft mentioning the glowing lads.

As for "all surgebinders", uhm, we know about experiences mostly from Kaladin. We don't know exactly the how Jasnah, Shallan and Renarin found out about their abilities. But all of them more or less had to find out themselves. Lopen knew from Kaladin about inhaling Stormlight, what makes a difference.

 

Sorry about my nitpicking, I merely really want that WoB :).

 

There a WoP to look for squires even in WoK if that'll do I can search for it.

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Na, don't bother with this :).

I've read the other thread and Mr. Ahlstrom's post, too. It doesn't help now, but I think I will re-read The Way of Kings once more.

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Oooooh... this makes sense now. If Yalb has been Shallan's squire all this time, that explains why she has enough of a connection to him to draw him that time she does. In the Lait, wasn't it?

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Oooooh... this makes sense now. If Yalb has been Shallan's squire all this time, that explains why she has enough of a connection to him to draw him that time she does. In the Lait, wasn't it?

 

Oh, good one! I've been wondering how could she randomly draw Yalb and the crew.

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