Anniversary Game: In the Re-Wake of the Koloss

[Mailliw73]

First off, sorry guys, I don't have as much time this week as I would've liked. I'll still be able to post at least once every day cycle and probably at night, but no guarantees. It should be better next week.

 

As for this current Night, I think that all Villager Smokers should turn off their copperclouds, so our Seekers get a better result on other players, and potentially allow some PM collaboration to begin.  If a player is copperclouded from the Seekers, it’ll definitely be something for them to keep in mind.

 

Tineyes, don’t reveal yourselves, or even hint to your identity in your Tineye messages.  We don’t want to lose PM communications too early over a simple message!  But with that being said, we’ll still want to voice the majority of our plans and suspicions in here, where all can see.  PMs are an addition to the thread, not the other way around.

 

I agree about the Smokers. All of you should turn off your copper clouds. Smoking isn't useful to anyone but the Spiked this early in the game.

 

I also agree with the Tineyes not revealing their identities, but I will talk more about that below.

 

With 28 players and only 9 powers I think we can be certain that every power will be represented and that there will be double ups of some (if not most or all) of the powers.

 

At least a double up on some, but I wouldn't be surprised if Meta tripled up a couple of the metals.

I've got to second everything Renegade said. I would say more but I think he summed it up nicely. One thing I will add- to the Tineye(s) (and no, I am not a Tineye this game, thank the Survivor): Yes, as Renegade said, it would be unwise to reveal yourself, but still, I would suggest hiding SOMETHING in your messages. That way, if it comes down to it at some point, you can say "I am a Tineye, because I hid this and this and this in all my messages. See?"

 

Other than that, I'll just sit back and wait until a Seeker seeks me, and adds me to their PM group of people they trust.

 

 

This is what I agree with most about the Tineyes. When I was a Tineye, it was very useful to have put something in my messages that I could show to prove myself, but as Clancy said, be subtle, but also make sure that it isn't something that someone else could fake claim. It is possible, as I did it myself. 

 

ETA: On Hreo's point, I'd say it'd also depend on what the person claiming Tineye's hidden. We've got some people who're pretty good at picking out hidden things in this game (just look at Maili and Claincy, and consider that there're a lot of new players who could be as good!) Preferably, we'd like to rule out the possibility that it's a fakeclaim from someone who'd already picked out the pattern.

 

As I said above, Tineyes should make sure the message hidden is something that points to them and them only. And yes, I will be taking upon myself the role of Tineye Decoder again. But, if I do pick out something that is likely an indication of who the Tineye is, I won't reveal it in the thread, unless necessary.

 

Regarding an estimate of what we're dealing with here, I'd probably agree with doubling up on most Roles, except probably the Coinshot. The actual distribution though would depend on how many Eliminators there are. 28 people is probably too many for 5, so I might guess 6, but with more non-Allomancers. The last games with around that number had 5 max Eliminators (after conversions in LG2) and 6 in LG4. Last time though that Meta used less Eliminators rather than more, he compensated it by giving them a few more Roles, though admittedly there were a lot more Gunners than we expected that game .

 

It would be just like Meta to troll us by giving them the complete opposite of what they had during LG1, but... I would say that it's pretty much a given that they have a Smoker. Coinshot we can basically rule out (unless there's half the expected number of Eliminators in the game, that is). Other than that, probably either a Soother or a Rioter. If there's six, they might have a Seeker to give them an additional Role that doesn't strengthen them too much. If there are five, I would probably expect them to have a Thug or a Lurcher. Mistborn... If there are two, it'll be one per side, most likely. If there's one, I might expect it to be a Villager, just because that's not how the previous game went.

 

But we shouldn't be concentrating on this anyway. It's just worth remembering that they will almost certainly have some vote manipulation Role, and quite possibly a defensive Role too. I only mention it because now that someone has, we can leave it aside .

Well, this is Meta we're talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if there was one Smoker, four Coinshots and five Lurchers. (Well, not too surprised.)

 

There's my two cents so far. I'll try to RP later if I have time. 

[Claincy]

This is what I agree with most about the Tineyes. When I was a Tineye, it was very useful to have put something in my messages that I could show to prove myself, but as Clancy said, be subtle, but also make sure that it isn't something that someone else could fake claim. It is possible, as I did it myself. 

 

As I said above, Tineyes should make sure the message hidden is something that points to them and them only. And yes, I will be taking upon myself the role of Tineye Decoder again. But, if I do pick out something that is likely an indication of who the Tineye is, I won't reveal it in the thread, unless necessary.

One other word of advice to tineyes. "There's always another secret." Many (if not all) of my tineye messages had multiple secrets, some far more subtle than others. So even though some people worked out the obvious ones no-one came close to getting them all, including the one that hinted to my identity. So when I wanted to prove myself to be the tineye it was extremely easy but no-one was able to peg me just by some light analysis of the messages.

[Mailliw73]

One other word of advice to tineyes. "There's always another secret." Many (if not all) of my tineye messages had multiple secrets, some far more subtle than others. So even though some people worked out the obvious ones no-one came close to getting them all, including the one that hinted to my identity. So when I wanted to prove myself to be the tineye it was extremely easy but no-one was able to peg me just by some light analysis of the messages.

 

True. I recommend something like that. I had a different strategy, but revealing it here would make it too easy for the Spiked if a Tineye used my ideas. I did find a lot of Claincy's secrets though.  

[Metacognition]

Word to the wise, there is about 5 hours left to the night and I haven't received many orders. If you want to do something, better get those orders in! 

 

EDIT: I forgot to clarify on Eoladdin's question, so let me take a minute to do so. The answer is no, they can entirely turn off their coppercloud. It just means that they can be manipulated just the same as anyone else. It's basically a double-edged sword. You can either leave it off and open yourself to being manipulated by two roles or you can turn it on and be immune-ish to one role and basically block two others. It all depends on what is viewed as more valuable.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Metacognition

[the winter system]

Hello. First post! We have absolutely no reason to think anyone's Spiked. The odds are insane of us lynching/using kill abilities on the right person. NEVER completely trust someone claiming a role. In my opinion, the smokers should probably not use their ability tonight because that prevents the seekers from finding out the alignments. I'll add more ideas when I have a bit more to chew on. 

---RP TIME---

 

     Cleo was nervous. When she was nervous... Cleo dropped another purse to the ground. It landed in a splash. 

     "Really?" She muttered. Cleo stuffed her fingers in her pockets. Bottles of metals for practice and for her master clinked together. There was a noise and a fire. Cleo ran off, grabbing flying coins and then stuffing them in her pockets. They hit her metals and her other coins. Cleo tripped on a bump in the road and hit the ground, flying. Vials of metal and coins flew out of her pocket and crashed onto the ground. Cleo reached for her metals and coins, but someone kicked the metals away. Cleo grabbed one vial, but she cut her hand on the shattered glass.

       "Ow!" She announced. "That hurt." Cleo dusted herself off and picked up as much as she could salvage. Then she raced back towards her house. 

[Lightsworn Panda]

It's a night turn Light, but I like your enthusiasm! As I said before, sorry to whomever winds up dying before they even really get a chance to play.

 

Apologies for the mistake. We pandas rely on ours sense of smell more than our eyesight.   

[Metacognition]

Day 1: Philosopher’s Stone

 

The building shook as the roof of the barracks collapsed, not that Vron was aware of such other than the shaking. The flames danced and the beakers rattled, but Vron kept his composure. He didn’t quite understand where it came from, but he felt calm under pressure anymore. He had a fleeting memory of him throwing bottles against a wall in frustration and then everything was calm again.

 

Still, it wasn’t a good idea to ignore the outside world, so he put down the dropper and walked the few steps it took him to reach the door of his small workshop.

 

As he opened the door, the first thing he noticed was that the mists seemed incredibly dark this night; almost as if they were covered in smoke.

 

Jac was on his feet, peering through the mist, trying to make out where the new sun had come from, but hadn’t left his post.

 

Vron prefered to use the town’s urchins as his messengers and couriers. Not only did this give them something to do with their time, but it also gave them a bit of coin and Vron knew how much they needed it. He stood there for a second, feeling a close connection to this particular urchin before subtly soothing away his curiosity.

 

“I don’t pay you to stare off into mists, Jac.” Vron said with a slightly gruff, yet friendly exterior. “Where are the rest of your friends and what is going on!”

 

Jac jumped a little before turning to Vron and kicking up some ash. “When they heard the crash, they all ran off.” -Jac eyed the direction of the blazing sky- “More likely, they headed towards the new sun. I’d be with’em too, but figured you’d want to know.”

 

So it begins again, Vron thought, though he didn’t know where the idea had come from. He shook his head.

 

“Rust right, I want to know what’s going on!” He said as he let up on his soothing. “So why are you still standing here? I need information, boy and you’re not going to find it for me here, now are you?”

 

Jac hopped from foot to foot, eager to take off again. A grin of pure delight broke out on his face as he turned to take off after his compatriots.

 

Vron was about to turn back to his studies when a thought shot through his head and he paused.. He stayed, it said. He stayed. He deserves better.

 

Just before Jac shot off into the night, Vron threw up a hand and shouted, “Wait!”

 

He didn’t know why he did it, but he trusted his memories.

 

“Jac, your friends will be back here before you even get close. No sense in wasting time; especially since I have need of you tonight. Wait here.”

 

Even as Vron turned, he knew that Jac was disappointed beyond belief and he soothed a bit of that away. He went into his shop and grabbed the first exotic item his eyes landed upon. It was a spike he had picked up from Urteau, some time back.

 

He wrapped it in cloth and carried it back outside.

 

“This is important, Jac. I need you to carry this to Luthadel for me. Here, take some boxings for the trip.”

 

“And who would I be giving this to, sir?”

“You’ll know them when you see them,” Vron growled. “Just make sure it gets there, okay?”

 

Vron soothed away Jac’s fear and his hesitence before slamming the door for effect. As he leaned against the door, he heard the sound of running feet and sighed in relief. The Koloss were coming from the east, so Jac wasn’t likely to run into them on his journey.

 

Why did he stick his neck out for a simple urchin? What had compelled him to give away one of his priceless artifacts? Vron shook his head, trying to clear his mind, as even he didn’t know. All he knew was that it felt right.

 

He went to return to his work, but noticed that his brass was burning low. He walked towards the back of the room. He stepped on the creaky board that he kept meaning to get fixed and reached down into the cache he had hidden for himself. As he pulled it out, he noticed the slight tinge of green to the color of the flakes.

 

They’re seriously going to have to do better than that, Vron thought as he shook his head. These flakes were obviously tainted. Even a beginner apprentice could tell that and Vron was no apprentice.

 

As he went to throw them away, a note slipped out of his fingers. It had been attached to the back of the bag.

 

We figured you’d be able to tell poisoned brass from regular brass, it read. We just needed to get you to step on that board for a moment.

 

Vron’s eyes widened in surprise and he tried to dive to the side, but it was too late. The hatchet that was attached to a pendulum swung free from its housing in the rafters and connected with his head.

 

_____________________________________

 

It had taken the better part of the night, but the fire was finally out. The weary villagers went their separate ways, looking for their beds for the rest of the night. It wasn’t until the morning that they found the messages scrawled into the remaining walls of the barracks and it took them a bit longer to find out that their saboteurs had been up to more than just arson last night.

 

It wasn’t until a little urchin boy found the courage to open Vron’s door and then run screaming into Rent’s square before they learned the horrible truth.

 

...Their Alchemist was murdered…

 

When they inspected the final, remaining wall of the barracks, they discovered three distinctive hands:

 

Do not fear,

Your tineye is here,

To take your sorrows away.

Come all tonight,

And have us a bite,

And sing our sorrows away.

Our only weakness

Through fire and flame,

Through grief and shame,

To all, a dinner divine.

Sit down, sit down,

‘Round the table, around,

And dance of a glory divine.

Is the weakness of all.

Your tineye is here,

So have not fear,

‘Til we reach the ends of the globe.

And upon the earth,

We feel with great mirth,

The shivers and shakes of the globe.

Our only fear

Of koloss and fires,

And deathly desires,

Our final wish come true.

To dance with the stars,

And fight through the wars,

‘Till all our last wishes come true.

Is the fear of all.

Do not fear,

Your tineye is here,

To take your sorrows away.

A fiendish thought,

A dastardly plot,

Shall your tineye ward away.

 

The next one read:

 

Mists! I'm the Tineye again! All Spiked: kill me now. Please.

With all my love.

 

And finally:

 

You’re all going to die. There’s a dead boy on my porch. It makes me think of lazy days in autumn. I’m sitting in my flower shop, no customers, 2 employees. This world though, is going to remember me and mine.

 

_____________________________________________________

Day 1 begins and will last 48 hours from now!

 

Vron turned out to be a Village Soother!

 

Updated Player List

 

Best of luck to everyone!

Edited January 3, 2015 by Metacognition

[Araris Valerian]

I assume that the 3 hands means that there were three people with tin last night. I would guess that we have 1 tineye and at least 2 mistborn, although the chances of them both getting tin seem a little low to me. Another possibility that I don't think is too likely is that the spiked have a tineye on their side. I'm not too sure how that would work out, but I assume that once the village tineye was removed that person could suicide and try to bring someone else down to remove the PM function from the game. I suspect that the spiked have a mistborn, which would explain that last message, although it does seem a bit weird. There isn't much of a reason to reveal something like that, although it isn't that helpful for us to know. On the other hand, somebody good could just be trolling us.

 

As far as voting goes, Alvron didn't post last cycle so his death doesn't really give us much to act off of. I'll spend a bit more time looking through the ideas and suggestions people had before I actually place a vote.

[Kasimir]

Well, three Tineyes, assuming one wasn't holding out on sending a message. Could have reasons for that, I suppose. Or, as Araris pointed out, a Mistborn had tin last night. Frankly, as far as role distributions are concerned, I'd advise we simply stick with common sense. That we know Meta is determined to troll and shake up the (M)eta-game shouldn't be a deterrent to making generally commonsensical guesses: it just means we're going to have to keep in mind the fact we could be very wrong and be prepared to adjust those conjectures once we get some data flowing in.
 
Alv's death reads to me so far like a traditional threat kill. I'd had the impression this would be a less successful strategy, with the mix of players we have in this game, but apparently, the Spiked feel it's still worth a shot.
 
I'm going to leave analysis of Tineye messages to someone better suited for it than I am. Instead, I'm just going to try and open up discussion by the traditional method of voting for someone: Herwynbe/Hreo. I admit that I noted your agreement with Ren with interest: you did have the tendency of trying to siddle up to and agree with a vocal player when you were an Eliminator in QF2, after all.

RP will come later, after I clear some stuff off the table.

[Lord Pifferdoo]

The town hall was loud and smelly, and Baron Von Piffertiff's head hurt. All that firefighting yesterday had given the Baron the worst migraine. And a murder? The Baron's head throbbed. I suppose I should do something Baron-y now. The Baron slowly stood up and approached the center of the raised platform he and the other councilmen were seated upon. Their little town had decided to model their government after the reforms in Luthadel, and the Baron was technically the highest ranking noblemen.

 

"Ahem." Baron Von Piffertiff cleared his throat. The townspeople continued chattering about the fire and the murder, like a bunch of townspeople who had just witnessed a fire and a murder. The Baron sighed, then motioned to his steward. Stu the Steward stepped forward, took a deep breath, then screamed.

 

Actually, screamed isn't the best word for it. You know, it is much too late to come up with a creative description. How bout this: you think of the most terrible, horrible noise you've ever heard from a living creature, mix that with the screech of a constipated barn owl, and add an extra twelve decibels. 

 

Needless to say, the townspeople quieted. Some small children started to cry, and one rather embarrassed councilmen tried (unsuccessfully) to hide the fact that he had spoiled his trousers. 

 

"Thank you, Stu." The Baron muttered. Maybe there is a reason to keep you around. "Now I know that there are quite a number of rumors fluttering around about what happened last night and this morning. This meeting was called in the hopes that some of these rumors can be quelled."

 

"Here is what we know for certain. At some point last night, someone or a group of someones committed arson on the barracks. All the windows and doors were boarded up beforehand, yet a fire was started in the center of the building. Several eyewitnesses have reported figures running away from the building after the fire had been started." The Baron swallowed. "Twenty-nine guards perished in the flames, while another sixteen are in critical condition. My heart, and the hearts of all members of the Council, go out to their families."

 

"During the night, another grievous crime was committed. Vron, our beloved Alchemist, was found dead this morning by a little urchin boy. I'm sure most of you know the details." Baron Von Piffertiff coughed, then looked at his notes. He had absently doodled a series of can dimensions. Really, he should get back to his writing. The mathematics chapter wasn't going to write itself! He was famous for his mathematics chapters. Got him an audience with the Lord Prelan once, though the Baron had to turn down his offer.

The Baron realized he was smiling to himself in front of the entire town after telling everyone about a murder. He cleared his throat, sniffed several times, then looked down at his notes again. 

 

"Captain Teys has volunteered to lead the investigation of the murder. If anyone believes they have any information regarding the fire and/or Vron's untimely death, please see the Captain or one of the councilpersons. The council will now hear any questions, following the town's official question asking rules."

[Herowannabe]

Herwynbe stumbled into the square, bleary-eyed and exhausted. He had been up all night- first doing what he could to help quench the fires, then helping with the more gruesome task of digging the graves. He noticed the crowd milling about the alchemist's shop, and ventured closer. After a few minutes, he learned what had happened- Vron had been killed by some sort of barbaric booby-trap.

 

"I think it was him!" a man shouted. Herwynbe looked up, surprised to see Karnad pointing a finger at him. "Yeah, you Terrisman! I think you torched the barracks then rigged Vron's shop when everybody was distracted." A few members of the crowd muttered nervously. Herwynbe took a breath, forcing himself to remain calm, but remained silent. Slowly, he turned and began walking away "Hey! Where are you going?" Karnad demanded angrily, "What do you have to say for yourself, traitor?"

 

Herwynbe did not stop walking, but spoke over his shoulder. "I will let my actions speak for me. They will do a better job than my tongue would, I think."

 

He left the crowd behind and returned to where he had left the shovel. He had another grave to dig- Vron deserved a proper burial, too.

 

RP aside, no, I'm not a traitor (I am also not a Tineye, thank the Survivor!). In response to your accusation, yes I agreed with Renegade, because he made good sense. I confess that I did that in the QF2 when I was a traitor, but if you'll recall I did the same thing in the other two games I played when I was NOT a traitor. When people make good sense and are actively engaged in making things more difficult for the traitors I'm going to side with them and help them. And I'm not going to stop that this game.

 

I'd also like to point out, as has been done in other games, that at this point there is no little advantage in lynching anyone. We simply don't know enough, and there are enough spiked traitors out there that you will be sure that they will sway the votes away from any of their members. Lynching someone know would only be helping them. And to that end, I choose to vote for nobody this cycle.

 

But by all means, let us please make accusations, have arguments, and try to catch the traitors in their lies and falsehoods!

Edited January 3, 2015 by Herowannabe

[Claincy]

Clancy rested in his room at the tavern, absentmindedly fiddling with his good luck charm as he thought. A murder! By itself it would have been bad enough, but coupled with the incoming koloss horde and the destruction of the barracks the situation held a disturbing resemblance to the tragic tale that kept swimming around in his head. Where had he heard it? Clancy normally prized his memory but for some reason he couldn't quite work out where that particular tale had come from. Sighing, Clancy stowed his good luck charm and left his room to join the other villagers. Whether the story had any meaning or not, one thing was clear, they would need everyone's help if they wanted to save the village, and Clancy would do his part.

 

Entering the tap room Clancy looked around, studying the other villagers. He noted with dissatisfaction that an unfortunately large number seemed too deep in their own thoughts (or their mugs) to contribute to the discussion. Choosing one of them Clancy called out across the taproom, "It seems we have a bad alloy on town, Joe would you like to share any wisdom you might have with us?"

 

RP aside, I'm not planning on actually voting for anyone today, we don't know enough yet to have any reasonable idea. However I am a firm proponent of the school of thought that says we should still be throwing around questions, thoughts and accusations so we can gather the information that we need. As I don't have any strong suspicions yet I will start with someone who hasn't posted since recruitment, so do you have any thoughts so far Joe?

[little wilson]

As I'm sure you've all seen by now, Claincy and I have started PMs with each of you, in groups ranging from 5 to 6 players in each (most only have 5). I'd like to address some things here in the thread rather than bringing them up in multiple PMs or not at all.

 

1. The most important point is role reveals. Do not do it. Not in those PMs, and preferably not in any PM unless you've been seeked and are in a PM with other people who have also been seeked. Even then, do not fully trust the seeker, as I'd bet that Team Evil has a seeker.

 

2. My second point is our alignment. There's a reason I want the seekers to seek us since that's the only way people should trust us. I have my reasons for trusting Claincy, and he has his for trusting me. And when I say "trust" I don't mean complete trust. I mean a tentative trust enough to form an alliance to better the village's chances of winning this. Full trust is pending seeker verification.

 

With both of us in all of these PMs, we've got our eye on the other. If one of us is spiked, we'll figure it out. Or you guys will. If both of us are spiked....that's a rather ridiculous gambit that would end up with the spiked losing a large portion of their team (I have it on strong authority that I'm worth 3 players when I'm evil), and the information gain wouldn't be worth it. Not only would we die the second the village seeker seeked us and said we're spiked, but even if the seekers for some reason didn't, as soon as 2 cycles passed without either of us taking a hit (regardless of lurcher protection), people's suspicions would climb rather sharply. And then we would die. 

 

 

3. This leads me to the information imbalance. It's true that Claincy and I can gain a fair bit of information in these PMs. However, that's not going to happen (read: I won't let it happen) until we're seeked. At that point, we'll be safe. So the information is fine. It's about what we do with it. Leadership roles are always a little iffy in these games. Some people thrive off of the power and deliver ultimatums, telling people that they'd better obey, or else. I've always rather disliked that technique, since it takes away the choices of the players, and that's a large portion of the fun. I'm all about that bass honesty. I prefer to be straightforward with people, telling as much as I possibly can without divulging critical information to people that I don't entirely trust. I tried to be like that as the Mayor in LG6 (although I didn't have as much control over that as I would've liked), and I plan to be like that here. Any pertinent information gleaned will be brought up for discussion here in the thread. The same goes for questionable behavior we see.

 

4. And now. This brings me to the reality of spiked in the PMs and why they're not as much of a threat as you might think. There are 8 PMs out there. At most there are only 6 spiked. I'm inclined to think there are only 5, but I could be wrong about that. Still, let's run off of worst case scenario, so 6 spiked. 8 PMs. Assuming Claincy and I aren't spiked, that means that there are at least two clean PMs. No spiked in them. At least. And for every PM with multiple spiked in it, that adds another clean PM. In the thread, there's a 100% chance that what you say is being read by a spiked. In those PMs, there's a 25% chance you're in a clean PM. Does that mean you should be revealing anything important, like roles? Like I already said, no. But it does mean that you can at least discuss. In addition to the thread. If you choose not to though, that's perfectly acceptable. It's not like we can really do much until the seekers seek, but we can at least try.

 

5. And that leads me to my last point. Claincy and I have just become high-priority targets. Please note that I'm not saying that to garner protection, although that would be nice. I'm saying it because quite frankly, there's no reason for the spiked to not want us dead. Sure, they could refrain from killing us and hope that you guys lynch us, but then they'd be banking on the villager seeker not seeking us, and that's a relatively large gamble. Additionally, like I already said, there are at least 2 PMs they can't see. They don't know exactly who is in those PMs (since there are multiple. They'd know collectively the possible player combinations, but they wouldn't know for certain) or what is being discussed (if anything). They don't know what kind of bonding moments we could be having in those PMs, singing kum-ba-ya or what have you. So they'll want us dead. And they'll make that happen.

 

Now, I don't care if I die. What I do care about is that, since I've put myself out here, I'd like my death to actually mean something. Even if I can't help you guys find a spiked before I die, I want to at least have helped you guys somehow in finding the spiked after. Personally, I think the PMs are among the best way to do that, by weeding them out based on discrepancies. But that only works if everyone talks.

 

 

And that's all for that.

 

RIP Vron. I may have killed you the first time, but it's sad to see a threat kill go through.

 

As for the 3 Tineyes. 1 of them could be a Mistborn who drew Tin, so we might not actually have three. But we could. And as for Team Evil having a Tineye. It could happen. Sure, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but none of the roles are safe so technically, it could happen. And I wouldn't put it past Meta to do that, simply because we think he wouldn't just because it wouldn't make sense.

 

I'll try to get a bit of RP sometime tomorrow, but I've had a rather long day today and it's almost 2 am. Which means I've been up for almost 20 hours straight. Not the longest I've pulled by any means, but still. Sorry for the blue text. I don't plan to make this like MR4. I actually have RP spinning around in my head for Wilson.

[Wyrmhero]

With a minimum of three people confirmed to be able to use Tin last Cycle, it's likely that either one was Mistborn, and the Eliminators have a Tineye. Note that this does not discount the Eliminators having a Mistborn, and posting that in order to try and trick us into lynching all the Tineyes looking for them.

 

Now, we have two ways to go about things for this Cycle - Examining Alvron's death, or voting at random to force people to speak up.

 

Alvron's death is difficult to analyse. He's an experienced player, and that would be a good enough reason to kill him as any. I wouldn't have said that his being the first death was suspicious either. Did he get in contact with anyone at all? Did he mention revealing his Role to anyone? Asking may be a little pointless, but it's still a good idea to do so just in case.

 

Now, voting to get people to speak up. I'm moving away from this as an idea, if I'm perfectly honest, but we still need to get people to speak up. At the least, I know Jain has been on today and he hasn't posted yet, so I would like to hear why not from him.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[Kasimir]

At this point in time, I'm going to keep my vote where it stands. Here's something Hreo said that sounds very strange to me:
 

I'd also like to point out, as has been done in other games, that at this point there is no little advantage in lynching anyone. We simply don't know enough, and there are enough spiked traitors out there that you will be sure that they will sway the votes away from any of their members. Lynching someone know would only be helping them. And to that end, I choose to vote for nobody this cycle.
 
But by all means, let us please make accusations, have arguments, and try to catch the traitors in their lies and falsehoods!

 
There are two things that he could mean when he says, "as has been done in other games." First, he could mean that in other (earlier) games, the general, accepted, public consensus is that lynching someone at this point is pointless. Note that this would be to propose that we have previously agreed we should not lynch someone at this point in time. The second, weaker way to read what Hreo says is to attribute to him the uninteresting statement, "Someone has said that we shouldn't lynch people early on in previous games." I'm going to assume Hreo means the first point rather than the second for several reasons: as I've mentioned, the second reading is a weak and uninteresting reading. It seems to me that Hreo isn't just saying that this view has been proposed before, he's trying to say that there is merit to this view and that it should be accepted. This is something the weak reading can't support.

So, assuming the strong (first) reading of Hreo's words. Is that really the case? (Before accusations of cherrypicking arise--note that I'm mostly citing from games I'm familiar with. In the majority of cases, this will turn out to be games that I've actually played.)

LG1 (our namesake): If anything, people set off immediately to vote. Notably, Quiver and surprisingly, Claincy defend the role of early lynches. (Note that some players draw a distinction between voting to lynch and actually lynching: however, it's clear in Quiver's last sentence that he's not into drawing such a finegrained distinction.)

LG5: Meta advocates voting. He abstains from committing to lynching, because of a particular mechanic local to LG5. In particular, GreyPilgrim and Awes have an exchange about lynching and lynch votes. Most notably, Claincy and Jim Bob Dirt have a prolonged--and at times, aggressive--exchange about whether or not to lynch or to vote. Note that the general consensus was, in fact, to vote.

LG6: Ren suggests no killing; Awes begs to differ. In addition, GreyPilgrim shifts position because of how he fared in previous games. Village heads for a no-lynch but that is ruined at the last second by a horse, of all things.

So no, I don't really see that as being the obvious consensus. But that's not really what I wanted to flag. The meat of what I find odd is that Hreo says "there are enough spiked traitors out there that you will be sure that they will sway the votes away from any of their members."

That's weird. Isn't that exactly what we want? That's exactly why lynch voting gives us information, quite apart from the matter of actually lynching. At risk of dragging up that dead horse to the flogging post again, voting puts pressure on people to respond in a way that bolding their name or addressing them in RP doesn't always achieve. And more importantly, the information we can exactly get is when Spiked attempt to divert attention away from fellow Spiked when voting. This is the sort of thing that will help us draw connections between players and to make sense of what's going on in the game. So yes. We want them to help each other. That makes our job easier.

I'm also slightly interested in Claincy's slight shift in position. Last major game of this format played was LG5. In LG5, as I've briefly noted above--he commences a long and at times, aggressive/spirited defence of lynch voting to promote discussion against Jim Bob Dirt. You seem to have taken quite a step back from being a proponent of both early lynch voting, and, if need be, lynching, in this game. So, what's up with that?

[the winter system]

How are we going to find out the Seeking results if we don't reveal who the Seekers are, exactly? EDIT: Color...storm the color editor to Damnations at this rate.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Winter Cloud

[Kasimir]

How are we going to find out the Seeking results if we don't reveal who the Seekers are, exactly?

Ideally, our Seeker has cleared someone last night. Assuming, of course, that we actually have a Seeker. Said person will then be the Seeker's contact, and the Seeker will presumably have opened a PM with said person. If the Seeker then discovers a Spiked, the Seeker will let us know through that mouthpiece. We then proceed to lynch the discovered Spiked, with the understanding that if the 'Spiked' turns out to be innocent, the Seeker and their mouthpiece will then be killed.

That's how it's been done in past games. Doesn't require dangerous identity reveals on the Seeker's part.

Edit: I swear I coded this right, but the editor swallowed up my code anyway o.O

Edited January 3, 2015 by Kasimir

[the winter system]

If someone accuses me of being a role, but if I'm not actually the role, then what do I say in this thread? I could say they aren't a Seeker, but that isn't confirmed. They could have Seeked someone else, but just guessed on me.

[Renegade]

Alright, first of all, there have been six people who have yet to post at all: Joe, Dom, Peng, Jasnah, Unodus, and Macen.  I’ve seen Joe, Dom, and Unodus lurk about in the thread, but Peng, Macen, and Jasnah have been absent since the start of the game.  So speak up, you silent people!  We also can’t afford to have people slip into the background as the game progresses.  Silence only helps the Spiked.  Don’t just stay in your fancy-shmancy PMs, bring something to the table to discuss.

 

Right now, we need to focus on finding the Spiked the ol’-fashioned way, which is just plain old discussion.  Again, I’m less towards the “poke-vote” thing than giving a reason for a vote on a player, and going off of that.  Of course, not everyone has said things pertinent to discussion this early on, so I’m going to hold off from voting for a bit.  I will, however, make a few points.

 

First, we can’t completely rely on PMs.  For one thing, PMs limit the spread of public information.  In games like this, the Village is the “uninformed” faction; we don’t the roles and alignments of any other players.  The Spiked, however, know everyone’s alignment, and know each of their faction’s roles.  So, we don’t want to leave all of our discussions for PMs.  As much as you might deny it, Wilson/Clancy, I could see several reasons for the Spiked to put themselves in such a precarious position as your own.

 

Another important thing about PMs (I feel like I’m doing a public service announcement) is the fact that it usually prevents the intended suspect from responding.  Sure, a PM may be a good way to bounce around ideas, but once you have your suspicions in place, it’s best to bring them to the thread for discussion.  Because it is likely that we could learn a thing or two from the suspect’s defense.

 

If someone accuses me of being a role, but if I'm not actually the role, then what do I say in this thread? I could say they aren't a Seeker, but that isn't confirmed. They could have Seeked someone else, but just guessed on me.

 

I'd suggest revealing their name in-thread, and saying that they failed to correctly Seek your role.  That would basically narrow it down to either them or you being Spiked (or a Villager trying to pull off a crazy gambit).

Edited January 3, 2015 by Renegade

[the winter system]

But they could just be bluffing.

[Wyrmhero]

If they're trying to bluff being a Seeker, then they're almost certainly an Eliminator. The possibility of them being a Villager and trying to draw fire is a little silly, since it just makes us focus on someone who's on our side.

 

Also bear in mind that someone being a Seeker does not clear them. I cannot stress this enough. Bartbug tricked the Village back in LG1; we don't want a repeat of that with an actual Seeker this game.

 

For that matter, we need the Role to be confirmed in order to be certain of the person being a Seeker. Any Eliminator can come along and claim to be a Seeker otherwise, since they know everyone's alignments. This is also part of the reason why you shouldn't be giving away your Roles easily, since if one Eliminator has it, then they all have it.

 

So in short, the only real way we can 'confirm' a Seeker is if their information leads to someone getting lynched (unless they decide that the loss of a player is worth it, which it very well could be). If someone contacts you claiming to be a Seeker, you should request all the people they have contacted and all their Roles as well, since you are all 'confirmed'. You can then check on the other players and double-check the Seeker, which you should do.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[ostrichofevil]

I was accused of being a certain role by the same user who accused Winter Cloud. If you have suffered accusations, please contact us.

[Kasimir]

So in short, the only real way we can 'confirm' a Seeker is if their information leads to someone getting lynched (unless they decide that the loss of a player is worth it, which it very well could be). If someone contacts you claiming to be a Seeker, you should request all the people they have contacted and all their Roles as well, since you are all 'confirmed'. You can then check on the other players and double-check the Seeker, which you should do.

Only you can help prevent Seeker liars!

Oh wait, that doesn't rhyme so good...

I'll echo the calls for discussion, which was something I'd meant to put in my post but it slipped my mind with researching. PMs aren't the be-all-and-end-all and a lack of public discussion only hurts us: it makes the people in the PM the bottlenecks through which information passes through to the thread, and not all bottlenecks will be trustworthy! (This goes without saying.)

In addition: I'm slightly surprised no one has commented on this--we haven't had any Coinshot/Mistborn-Coinshot action at the moment. It doesn't really mean that any Coinshot is therefore on our side, of course: given the number of people who said that we should assume any Coinshot action on Night 1 is hostile, it's possible that the Eliminator Coinshot has decided to do nothing. Strategically, I don't find it as likely, but that might be just how I consider Eliminator strategies.

Last comment, for those who've read all of WoT:

we're like Hinderstap, you realise?

-

Well, Karnad thought, the town certainly seems to be having things well in hand. The suspicious Terrisman had gone off, no doubt to save puppies from trees and to thereby protest that he couldn't possibly be evil. (He'd known noblemen in Luthadel: very magnanimous, beat their children nearly half to death, and used their skaa as furniture. Very charming people, altogether.) And the town storyteller and the local messenger had decided they had things to do, and of course, so did Karnad. Sights to see, time beckoned, and all of that.

He thought he'd chance the barricades. Very nice town, Tyrian Falls, and he was more than glad to see the back of it. Whistling a quiet tune to himself, he gathered his things and tried to head down the path towards the road leading to Fadrex--

"I'm pretty sure the Captain told us about you," said the watchman on duty, and Karnad groaned inside.

"Whatever you've heard," Karnad said, "It's a lie."

The watchman scratched her ear. "No, I'm pretty sure it isn't," she said, stubbornly. "Captain said you was one of the auxiliaries he'd recruited. Had a feeling you might try to slip off in the chaos. Word is that anyone leaving Tyrian Falls is to be stopped and shot if they continue."

Karnad gaped. "You--you're--this is insane," he finally managed, cross. "For the Lord--for somebody's sake. That's just paranoid. I'm a simple courier, and I demand--"

"Captain's orders," yawned the watchman. She nocked an arrow to her bow. "And running away's desertion, in any case. Could shoot a man dead for that. Not just in the knee."

"Fine," snapped Karnad. "You've won. You've all won. This is one crazy town, and I regret the first moment I stepped in it!" Fuming, he went off to get a drink to cool his head. He had to think this through. It was clear that attempting to escape Tyrian Falls would only be met by instant death. The only solution he could see was to work on the problem of locating the town's saboteurs and hoping that they could muster a defense against the koloss.

Of all the places to die, Karnad thought, exasperated.

[Mckeedee123]

I was accused of being a certain role by the same user who accused Winter Cloud. If you have suffered accusations, please contact us.

Yeah, what was up with that?

[Wyrmhero]

Is that three people at least who have been hit by phishing attempts? >>

 

Edit: Or is that just that you're asking for clarification there, Mek?

Edited January 3, 2015 by Wyrmhero