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Shivertongue

The Great Reread - The Great Hunt

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THIS THREAD WILL MOST LIKELY CONTAIN SPOILERS.

Discussion thread for the Great Reread, pertaining to book 2, The Great Hunt. This is the second book, and you should probably not be here if you have not read the first book. It's only common sense.

For information and to join The Great Reread, please go here.

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I want to mention two things that stood out to me when I reread this book, but which I didn't mention in my thread. First, I find it striking how badly the Shadow seems to want the Wonder Girls out of the picture, even from book 2. I wonder if their prophecies include them? They really do a lot of amazing things, more than any Aes Sedai (who mostly just blow hot air).

Second, recall how Moiraine has the three ta'veren's clothes burned, saying that someone could use an article of theirs to find them? This ability is neither mentioned nor used throughout the entire rest of the series, which I find odd.

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I've completed TGH!

About your concern, Ryan, I think the clothes would allow tracking by scent. Darkhounds almost certainly can do that, and maybe some kinds of Trollocs can, not to mention Darkfriends with regular dogs.

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To me, it is their link to Rand. If they can get their hands on either of the Two Rivers girls, they have big bargaining power. Elayne was an afterthought that Liandrin didn't even want along originally.

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To me, it is their link to Rand. If they can get their hands on either of the Two Rivers girls, they have big bargaining power. Elayne was an afterthought that Liandrin didn't even want along originally.

They wanted to make sure they got shipped back to Seanchan, away from the main conflict. Sounds to me like they just wanted to get rid of them.

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So I finished TGH last night, and I have to say, this is still one of my favorite books in the series. I enjoy seeing the characters start to branch off and do their own thing. I enjoy the hints that Min drops, even this early, and is something that I didn't get on my first reading. I also never caught the reference to "Our master" between Liandrin and Suroth... I never picked it up so when a reveal comes later on in the series, it was actually a surprise.

I remember reading the "Sheathing the sword" comment early, and that felt like pretty weak foreshadowing, even though it was very important to the story it still didn't feel very subtle.

I can't pinpoint why, but I loved the sequence with Ingtar. The reveal regarding him was indeed foreshadowed quite subtly, and I enjoyed it, even knowing what was coming. His noble act at the end, and his redemption was one of my favorite scenes in any of the books.

Also, seeing Masema, and knowing exactly where he is going to end up later is fun. There is an entirely new perspective on these books that comes to light when you know almost exactly what is going to happen later, and it is quite fun. I wonder how many of these hints RJ put into the books, and then decided to payoff later, and how many were just throwaway comments that he realized he had written in 5, or even 6 books before. It speaks a great deal for the planning that went into these books, and the amount of detail that was probably present in the outline and grand design.

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...

I remember reading the "Sheathing the sword" comment early, and that felt like pretty weak foreshadowing, even though it was very important to the story it still didn't feel very subtle.

...

I just read the beginning of "Leavetaking" and Lan gave Rand the Sheathing the Sword speech. I remember that I noticed this very not subtle foreshadowing when I read the first book 15+ years ago. Maybe it wasn't meant to be subtle, maybe we as readers needed to know that Rand knew the solution when presented with it and the question was whether or not it would succeed. Or something like that.

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Just got to where they met Urien, which was the very first on-screen appearance of an Aielman - not counting Rand, of course :P. He's only around briefly in this book, but I love his dialogue so much.

"Bring your lightnings, Aes Sedai. I will dance with them."

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The Ingtar scene is one of my favorites in the whole series because it's the first time we really get to see a human face on the Shadow. Like, not all people who follow the Shadow are necessarily evil. This is a very important element later with certain dark friend reveals.

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Just got to where they met Urien, which was the very first on-screen appearance of an Aielman - not counting Rand, of course :P. He's only around briefly in this book, but I love his dialogue so much.

"Bring your lightnings, Aes Sedai. I will dance with them."

I read that part yesterday as well. Even though I know as an Aiel warrior, he will be a badass, I can't get over that he didn't seem that menacing. Yeah, he had some great lines, but the fear shown by the Bordermen (and I do call it fear) didn't do enough to impress me.

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I read that part yesterday as well. Even though I know as an Aiel warrior, he will be a badass, I can't get over that he didn't seem that menacing. Yeah, he had some great lines, but the fear shown by the Bordermen (and I do call it fear) didn't do enough to impress me.

I remember it worked for me the very first time. The Shienaran's had already been shown as very capable warriors, and that every man there suddenly became worried about a single Aiel told me Aiel were nothing to be messed with. And how casually he spoke of facing death... same with the women they encountered in the stedding. Based on everything I had heard about the Aiel, and the reactions of hardened soldiers, I was impressed without ever having to see anything.

In other news, I finished The Great Hunt last night, despite efforts to hold the ending off for another day or so. Moving on to The Dragon Reborn soon.

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I remember it worked for me the very first time. The Shienaran's had already been shown as very capable warriors, and that every man there suddenly became worried about a single Aiel told me Aiel were nothing to be messed with. And how casually he spoke of facing death... same with the women they encountered in the stedding. Based on everything I had heard about the Aiel, and the reactions of hardened soldiers, I was impressed without ever having to see anything.

In other news, I finished The Great Hunt last night, despite efforts to hold the ending off for another day or so. Moving on to The Dragon Reborn soon.

I must be channeling my youth-like ability to burn through books like a teenager chews through pizza. Finished TGH last night and started TDR last night as well. It's amazing how much of the little details I have forgotten such as the conditions that led Mat to blow the horn. Or, more specifically, that the Heroes couldn't ride unless the banner was unfurled.

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My impression is they they were not all that scared of the one many they could see, but of all the ones they thought might be hidden.

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Finished TGH yesterday.

When I read the end of chapter 10 with the Myrddraal spiked to the inn doors my first thought was "Inquisadraal, how freaking awesome would that be." My immediate second thought was "Are you mad man! That's not awesome it's absolutely terrifying; no force in the Cosmere or Randland could stop a beast like that."

Imagine Shaidar Haran with Marsh's spikes. EVERY force in the Cosmere and Randland combined couldn't stop that.

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Finished TGH yesterday.

When I read the end of chapter 10 with the Myrddraal spiked to the inn doors my first thought was "Inquisadraal, how freaking awesome would that be." My immediate second thought was "Are you mad man! That's not awesome it's absolutely terrifying; no force in the Cosmere or Randland could stop a beast like that."

Imagine Shaidar Haran with Marsh's spikes. EVERY force in the Cosmere and Randland combined couldn't stop that.

suppose anyone who could wield some Saidar/Saidin could at that. Just bind him up with the Power and let your heron-marked-sword/strange Aelfinn-spear/power-wrought-knives at home so he can't get to you. The only thing it could still would be to play with your emotions. Of course if you riot the Myrddraal-caused fear, I suppose some people would be very scared. But then, I don't suppose Rand is afraid of Myrddraal anymore. Like NOT AT ALL...

Myself I'm on the point of the wondergirls going to leave the White Tower because some Aes Sedai (which is known to not being a friend of Moiraine) told them without giving any reason. How stupid can one be?

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suppose anyone who could wield some Saidar/Saidin could at that. Just bind him up with the Power and let your heron-marked-sword/strange Aelfinn-spear/power-wrought-knives at home so he can't get to you. The only thing it could still would be to play with your emotions. Of course if you riot the Myrddraal-caused fear, I suppose some people would be very scared. But then, I don't suppose Rand is afraid of Myrddraal anymore. Like NOT AT ALL...

Myself I'm on the point of the wondergirls going to leave the White Tower because some Aes Sedai (which is known to not being a friend of Moiraine) told them without giving any reason. How stupid can one be?

Stupid, yes, but understandable. If you were to consider the WT as a military force (I know it's not) then the low level privates/rookies/recruits are just following the orders of a commander. Since those orders don't contradict any existing orders, they can be followed.

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They were given the choice though. Liandrin asked them pretending that Rand was in danger. They never questioned in what kind of danger or how Liandrin would know about it. Yes, she threatened with the Black Ajah. But still the girls just followed, knowing very well that there was something suspicious about all that story.

Min and Elayne - we've only seen Rand once but we've already fallen in love with him - say they're coming to help Rand. And later they're going to call Rand a woolhead.

Change of topic. I'm surprised how many hints there are about Ingtar being a Darkfriend. Never even thought about it though, when I first read it.

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Min and Elayne - we've only seen Rand once but we've already fallen in love with him - say they're coming to help Rand. And later they're going to call Rand a woolhead.

Well... love at first sight (or at least knowing that there will be love) does happen every once in long while, expecially when you have plenty of time to stew over how much you care for that person (that kind of stewing just heightens that kind of feeling). Especially when the person you fall in love with is as strongly ta'veren as Rand.

and calling a loved one a name, such as woolhead or idiot or crazy can-apple, is different than calling somebody else a name. It's more affectionate.

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Well... love at first sight (or at least knowing that there will be love) does happen every once in long while, expecially when you have plenty of time to stew over how much you care for that person (that kind of stewing just heightens that kind of feeling). Especially when the person you fall in love with is as strongly ta'veren as Rand.

and calling a loved one a name, such as woolhead or idiot or crazy can-apple, is different than calling somebody else a name. It's more affectionate.

And the one you love can still be an idiot. I know this from experience. Sometimes you love them despite it, sometimes you love them because of it.

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I actually missed that Ingtar was a DF on my initial read through, and I had suspicions this time but thought the clues were very well done. Very subtle. I think that is what I am getting the most out of these books. I know what is going to happen in almost all cases (if I can remember) and so I can see the clues, but if you are reading it the first time it is very easy to miss. Gives me that much more appreciation for the writing.

In that same vein, I think that makes Brandon's job that much easier. A lot of the foreshadowing and hinting was already done by the time he had to take over, so he gets to focus on the resolution.

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Ingtar is actually what made me suspicious of just about every non-viewpoint character afterward. His revelation as a Darkfriend was such a surprise to me - he was a good guy, how could he be allied with the Shadow?! Who else seems like a good guy but actually serves the Dark One... It added this tension to the entire series that still remains.

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Ingtar is actually what made me suspicious of just about every non-viewpoint character afterward. His revelation as a Darkfriend was such a surprise to me - he was a good guy, how could he be allied with the Shadow?! Who else seems like a good guy but actually serves the Dark One... It added this tension to the entire series that still remains.

And now that tension has been removed a bit, since appearantly being in the presence of the full Dragon Reborn causes Darkfriends to be struck blind, meaning they can no longer hide.

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I have a feeling we still have couple big Dark Friend reveals coming in the last book. You're right on about Ingtar, Shiv. I was totally blown away my first time through and had to go back and re-read that whole scene in the alley to make sure I wasn't going crazy.

PS - Should I assume everyone has read all the way through the series? Like should we not talk about stuff to come in later books that is foreshadowed here? There is one specific thing that happens in this book that isn't revealed until book 13 that I want to at least mention.

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I have a feeling we still have couple big Dark Friend reveals coming in the last book. You're right on about Ingtar, Shiv. I was totally blown away my first time through and had to go back and re-read that whole scene in the alley to make sure I wasn't going crazy.

PS - Should I assume everyone has read all the way through the series? Like should we not talk about stuff to come in later books that is foreshadowed here? There is one specific thing that happens in this book that isn't revealed until book 13 that I want to at least mention.

I know that some of the people participating in this reread are reading through for the first time. All threads contain spoiler warnings, but for something like that I'd request you put up a spoiler tag.

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Spoiler for Book 13

I didn't actually notice this until I came to the internet and saw that it was a major topic of debate, but this is the book where we get confirmation that Verin is, in fact, a Dark Friend, because she lies about Moiraine sending here. It's done in such a way that she could have turned out not to be a Dark Friend (if she believed it, then it wasn't a "lie") but I never bought that. I think most of us just didn't want her to turn out to be a DF so we fought against the idea, but Jordan planned it so well that now when rereading, especially in one of the later books when she is using compulsion, it all makes this creepy kind of sense, where you are still cheering for her but for different reasons.

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