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Assorted Mini-Theories and Series Speculation


dvoraen

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So rather than make nineteen thousand threads each discussing one miniature topic, I figured I'd just do an info dump here.  >.>

 

Mini-Theories

 

 

The Unmade consume the Investiture of human souls in order to power their peculiar abilities, while also creating 'slaves' out of them.  They can feed off a highstorm's Investment to maintain their existence as well, but they use the other to fuel their powers due to abundant supply and usage of those powers.

This one is almost corroborated by numerous epigraphs (and the Diagram) that mention the Unmade.  Specifically: Re-Shephir, Dai-gonarthis, Yelig-nar, and Moelach.  The word 'consume' is used in relation to each of the first three, the word 'soul' for the last three, and both Dai-gonarthis and Yelig-nar have epigraphs that specifically reference the speaker's or victim's soul being held captive and/or consumed.  I don't think this is a coincidence, given that we know that human souls are apparently formed of Investiture.

 

The bit about slaves is mostly speculation, based on Dalinar's flashback regarding Sja-anat*.  The second shadow shown was vaguely human shaped, yet it dove into the water and animated rock into a thunderclast.  I don't think I need to go into exact reasons how or why a human soul could be driven to 'hate' its own kind, especially if it has been subjected to an extensive (and likely agonizing) feeding process.

 

* I suspect 'corruption' is the greater of Sja-anat's powers, which is why I label that Unmade the Black Piper.

 

 

 

The real Voidbringers are the Unmade; the Listeners are just scapegoats that have been controlled by them as Voidbinding foot soldiers.  Folklore about Voidbringer possession and 'inhabiting' relates to the powers of specific Unmade.

I can't really put my finger on why I say the last, as it's based almost completely off of conjecture (i.e. - not enough concrete info or WoB on it).  As far as conjecture goes, see above about Sja-anat and that flashback, specifically: What did the Radiant mean by the spy not being able to go far without a carrier?  The men that were there in the flashback were clearly squires (they were glowing faintly with Stormlight), so perhaps they were protected from being possessed, but what about a normal human and resident wildlife?  This folklore and Vorin doctrine(?) about the Voidbringers inhabiting people (and presumably animals) clearly originated from somewhere, and we now have the possibility that it's factual.

 

 

Something about the Diagram and Taravangian here I'll put as a real theory thread Soon.

 

Something else about the Recreance here which I'll also put as a real theory thread, when I get time to write this one out.  It's ... involved.  (On the serious, I put these here as reminders, not to tease everyone with "I've got a secret idea."  Feel free to heckle me in PM if I don't do at least one of them within a week of this post. :P)

:)

 

 

 

The cause of Szeth being named Truthless was when he had contact with a Herald roughly six years back.

Pure conjecture, I'm afraid, but this was born of asking the question: "What would have made Szeth claim the Voidbringers have returned?"  There are few answers that I can think of:  A Herald stating so and proving his/her claim via Honorblade powers.  An actual witnessing of Voidbinding (and/or the Unmade), or witnessing Voidspren manifesting into the world.

 

My personal guess is he crossed paths with the man claiming to be Taln, who 'raised the alarm' to Szeth and proved his claim that he was who he was, before everything gradually crashed down on him as he made his way across the continent trying to give a clarion call to all the races before collapsing in Alethkar. Either way, I think this event with Szeth happened roughly six years ago, when Gavilar uncovered a little dark secret in his expeditions into Natanatan, and that set a lot of events into motion.

 

 

 

Series Speculation and Predictions

 

- Jasnah and Taln will have a fling.  She has high standards, after all, and who else but a Herald could reach her high bar?

 

- Dalinar's book and the first half will end with him bearing witness to Cultivation's demise and Splintering.  It will basically be the darkest part of the storm, but it will also be very important later on for reforging the two Splintered Shards later.  (Yes, I'm predicting Dalinar becoming Honor if not more.)

 

- Lift asked the Nightwatcher to make her awesome.  <- It just seems obvious to me. :)

 

- Dalinar asked the Nightwatcher either to remove his pain (from his wife dying), or to become a different man. Either way, the result was the hole where his wife was, which is the hole that his Surgebinding later filled.

 

 

Speculation Proven Wrong

 

- How Jasnah survived.  I seriously thought that she had Soulcasted Ivory into a body double.  My thought at the time was that Soulcasting works almost perfectly on your bonded spren, this being due to the fact that your spren can imitate your form due to long association.  It would also explain the to-the-heart wound failing, as stabbing a spren corpse seems rather meaningless to me.  This thought was born of the fact that Shallan's Lightweaving was stable when attached to and in proximity of Pattern when she wasn't, so that made me think your spren can enhance Surgebinding when physically close to the usage of it.  Thus, the 'oh!  Soulcasting probably works better on your bonded spren because they're a willing change and can impersonate you!' and so on.  I figured Elsecalling had a flaw, particularly when we hit the epilogue -- otherwise why abandon Shallan unless she was that driven in her self-appointed mission? -- but I had no insights there.

Edited by dvoraen
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- Lift asked the Nightwatcher to make her awesome.  <- It just seems obvious to me. :)

 

- Dalinar asked the Nightwatcher either to remove his pain (from his wife dying), or to become a different man. Either way, the result was the hole where his wife was, which is the hole that his Surgebinding later filled.

 

 

Lift... it all makes sense now.

 

That is actually the best explanation that I've herd for why Dalinar's soul was fractured enough to bond the stormfather, heck he may not even remember how broken he is if he's forgotten everything. I suspect that he's going to have to face down his past in his own book.

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- Dalinar's book and the first half will end with him bearing witness to Cultivation's demise and Splintering.  It will basically be the darkest part of the storm, but it will also be very important later on for reforging the two Splintered Shards later.  (Yes, I'm predicting Dalinar becoming Honor if not more.)

 

- Lift asked the Nightwatcher to make her awesome.  <- It just seems obvious to me. :)

 

- Dalinar asked the Nightwatcher either to remove his pain (from his wife dying), or to become a different man. Either way, the result was the hole where his wife was, which is the hole that his Surgebinding later filled.

 

Lift - that makes sense. But since she calls Surgebinding her "awesomeness" that would mean that Nightwatcher forced/convinced Wyndle to bond her. I'm not saying it's impossible, it's actually valid, but what about the fact that she exists partially in Cognitive Realm (thus being able to touch the spren) and that she can turn food into stormlight (which may be a direct consequence of existing in Cognitive Realm). I think this is more likely to be her boon - I mean, where else it could come from?

 

Dalinar - the part about Nightwatcher is pretty obvious (at least in my eyes). As for the rest... I don't know if Cultivation will be Splintered, personally I don't think so (which doesn't make it impossible of course). But for some time now I was thinking that Honor will be reforged and Dalinar will become it's Shardholder (who would be better?), so I agree with your theory. I'd really like to see this :lol:

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Cultivation may be splintered if Odium returns to Roshar, but I don't think it will be a simple matter. After all, why didn't Odium splinter Cultivation before/when/after he splintered Honor. In fact, why did Odium ever leave Roshar in the first place especially after splintering Honor? Assuming the the "Three of Sixteen ruled" epigraph refers to Honor, Cultivation, and Odium ruling over Roshar, then there was likely some sort of balance or agreement between the three. It may have to do with how the shardholders interpret their Intent, but I believe that the relationship between the three is more complex. A fun, little theory I have is that Tanavast and Rayse were brothers squabbling over a love for Cultivation’s shardholder. Out of rage Rayse killed Tanavast who was blind to the possibility of his brother killing him due to Honor’s Intent, much in the same way Dalinar was honor-blind to Sadeas’ betrayal. This would also explain Cultivation’s survival if Rayse cared for her. Regardless, the point is that the relationship between Cultivation and Odium is complex, and her shattering won’t be as simply as Odium showing up and immediately destroying her. Whatever held the balance between the two will have to be destroyed or circumnavigated. 

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:)

 

 

 

Pure conjecture, I'm afraid, but this was born of asking the question: "What would have made Szeth claim the Voidbringers have returned?"  There are few answers that I can think of:  A Herald stating so and proving his/her claim via Honorblade powers.  An actual witnessing of Voidbinding (and/or the Unmade), or witnessing Voidspren manifesting into the world.

 

My personal guess is he crossed paths with the man claiming to be Taln, who 'raised the alarm' to Szeth and proved his claim that he was who he was, before everything gradually crashed down on him as he made his way across the continent trying to give a clarion call to all the races before collapsing in Alethkar. Either way, I think this event with Szeth happened roughly six years ago, when Gavilar uncovered a little dark secret in his expeditions into Natanatan, and that set a lot of events into motion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, I think that there's no way we can even speculate over what made Szeth Truthless. In reality, we know so little about the Shin culture, as it is so alien from the rest of Roshar, that anything we try to come up with regarding their people, expectations, or customs has almost no factual basis whatsoever. However, because speculating is fun, I will also speculate over what made Szeth Truthless. Who knows? Maybe the Sander-man will get word of these and decide they're better than his own ideas. 

 

First, we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Stone Shamans, a part of the Shin people, have or have had control of at least 8 or 9 Honorblades since the Heralds left. We can intuit from this that either the Shin were 1) given the Honorblades by someone or some thing, or 2) collected or stole the Honorblades through various means. Whichever the case, I think it implies that the Shin have a more developed understanding of Roshar's distant past. This understanding may relate to greater preserved knowledge on the Nahel Bond, the Recreance, or the Heralds themselves. 

 

Second, this knowledge almost certainly applies to Szeth's becoming a Truthless. Although I don't have the book in front of me, his fury and confusion at seeing Kaladin use stormlight related to his being made Truthless. He asked, "Are they back? Are they all back?" to Kaladin, which to me implies that his Truthlessness related to an assertion that either the Knights Radiant or Voidbringers were returning, which his people, either because they didn't want to believe him or because they were fooled by the Heralds (whom the Shin may or may not know are still alive and functioning, given Szeth's lack of "BUT YOU'RE DEAD" reaction to Nalan's appearance, due to my postulated "extra knowledge" of the Shin people, or at least the Stone Shamans) refused to accept.

 

What did Szeth experience to lead him to his conclusion, you ask? Well, with all the theories surrounding Szeth's becoming a Radiant in the upcoming books, I thought to myself, "Why couldn't he have started that process earlier?"

 

As such, I postulate that Szeth's Truthlessness stems from the fact that his spren started forming the bond with him six years ago, he knew what it meant due to the Shin's preserved knowledge of the past and brought it to the attention of his people, and they, possibly believing the Heralds that the Desolations were finished and armed with the knowledge that the Knights Radiant disbanded centuries ago, either labelled him Truthless as a liar or denounced him as a potential Voidbringer and banished him. The Stone Shamans granted him an Honorblade to serve him and his masters outside of Roshar, and his reprehensible actions with the Honorblade, or maybe the "dangerous amounts" of stormlight the blade required, sundered the fledgling bond he had with his spren, effectively killing it (he will bring it back to life when he comes to his senses and leaves Nalan's employ, finally swearing some oaths and strengthening the bond).

 

Like I said, this is pretty much pure speculation based on the fact that we know next to nothing about the Shin, but a man can dream, can't he?

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Personally, I think that there's no way we can even speculate over what made Szeth Truthless. In reality, we know so little about the Shin culture, as it is so alien from the rest of Roshar, that anything we try to come up with regarding their people, expectations, or customs has almost no factual basis whatsoever. However, because speculating is fun, I will also speculate over what made Szeth Truthless. Who knows? Maybe the Sander-man will get word of these and decide they're better than his own ideas. 

 

First, we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Stone Shamans, a part of the Shin people, have or have had control of at least 8 or 9 Honorblades since the Heralds left. We can intuit from this that either the Shin were 1) given the Honorblades by someone or some thing, or 2) collected or stole the Honorblades through various means. Whichever the case, I think it implies that the Shin have a more developed understanding of Roshar's distant past. This understanding may relate to greater preserved knowledge on the Nahel Bond, the Recreance, or the Heralds themselves. 

 

Second, this knowledge almost certainly applies to Szeth's becoming a Truthless. Although I don't have the book in front of me, his fury and confusion at seeing Kaladin use stormlight related to his being made Truthless. He asked, "Are they back? Are they all back?" to Kaladin, which to me implies that his Truthlessness related to an assertion that either the Knights Radiant or Voidbringers were returning, which his people, either because they didn't want to believe him or because they were fooled by the Heralds (whom the Shin may or may not know are still alive and functioning, given Szeth's lack of "BUT YOU'RE DEAD" reaction to Nalan's appearance, due to my postulated "extra knowledge" of the Shin people, or at least the Stone Shamans) refused to accept.

 

What did Szeth experience to lead him to his conclusion, you ask? Well, with all the theories surrounding Szeth's becoming a Radiant in the upcoming books, I thought to myself, "Why couldn't he have started that process earlier?"

 

As such, I postulate that Szeth's Truthlessness stems from the fact that his spren started forming the bond with him six years ago, he knew what it meant due to the Shin's preserved knowledge of the past and brought it to the attention of his people, and they, possibly believing the Heralds that the Desolations were finished and armed with the knowledge that the Knights Radiant disbanded centuries ago, either labelled him Truthless as a liar or denounced him as a potential Voidbringer and banished him. The Stone Shamans granted him an Honorblade to serve him and his masters outside of Roshar, and his reprehensible actions with the Honorblade, or maybe the "dangerous amounts" of stormlight the blade required, sundered the fledgling bond he had with his spren, effectively killing it (he will bring it back to life when he comes to his senses and leaves Nalan's employ, finally swearing some oaths and strengthening the bond).

 

Like I said, this is pretty much pure speculation based on the fact that we know next to nothing about the Shin, but a man can dream, can't he?

 

I've had the same Idea about Szeth myself, It would have made sense if he'd raised the alarm because a spren he had started bonding had told him. After all Wyndle seems to have his memory more or less intact so I don't think it's any stretch to say that other Spren also kept their memories when they crossed over. The one big flaw with this idea though is that if Szeth had already bonded a spren why the heck would Nalan recruit him. It could be because Szeth was a skybreaker and Nalan was willing to recruit him even though he ran the risk of bringing back the desolation's (although when he brought Szeth back the everstorm had already begun), he might have simply not known. Ultimately I suspect we'll find out in Stones Unhallowed which is looking further and further away.

 

also right now the stone Shamans only have control over seven of the Honorblades they never had taenel's, Kaladin took Jezrien's from Szeth and there is one blade that's unaccounted for although it's suspected that Nalan took his back.

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Personally, I don't think Szeth broke in his younger years, but I can't deny the possibility that a Nahel spren could have been the impetus of being named Truthless.  My opinion on the matter is that Szeth's time period of being Truthless, especially the latter parts where he's starting to go craycray, is what did the job sufficient enough for him to become a candidate for a bond later on.

 

The one thing I do wonder about is the 'spirits of the stone' promising that Surgebinding and so on are gone.  It makes me wonder if Stone Shamanism has its dogma rooted with Cultivation somewhere, or that she's subtly been manipulating people from making waves in the world (the Shin having the Honorblades would surely do that if they weren't xenophobic).  Plus, farmers being revered among the Shin would be an almost literal way of worshipping Cultivation, too.

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The one thing I do wonder about is the 'spirits of the stone' promising that Surgebinding and so on are gone.  It makes me wonder if Stone Shamanism has its dogma rooted with Cultivation somewhere, or that she's subtly been manipulating people from making waves in the world (the Shin having the Honorblades would surely do that if they weren't xenophobic).  Plus, farmers being revered among the Shin would be an almost literal way of worshipping Cultivation, too.

 

Actually in Way of Kings Jasnah mentions that Cultivation is worshiped in western Roshar.

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Actually in Way of Kings Jasnah mentions that Cultivation is worshiped in western Roshar.

Sure, which is why I bring her (Cultivation) up, but Jasnah's comment was horrifically broad as far as where Cultivation is worshipped.  Presumably, it's as widespread (with permutations) in western Roshar as Honor's worship is in the east.  Either way, I'm curious how the Shin integrate what they know about the Honorblades with this likely worship of a different Shardholder altogether.

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