Mckeedee123

Comprehensive Analysis of Death Rattles

28 posts in this topic

--Comprehensive analysis of death rattles--


This is going to be a very long post. Thought I might as well give it a special title and all. :)

So, uhh... death rattles, right? Brandon Sanderson has stated that basically the entire climax of the Stormlight Archives is contained within the epigraphs of "The Way of Kings", though we've seen a couple of rattles come true already. I've seen various posts dedicated to the interpretation of death rattles, but here I want to provide a "comprehensive analysis" of them instead of just a disorganized discussion.

So first off, what in the name of the Stormfather are they? Obviously, Moelach gives them to people when they're about to die, but what are these people seeing? or... channeling? or... whatever. Well, let's check on some of the ones we think we understand already.

“Above the final void I hang, friends behind, friends before. The feast I must drink clings to their faces, and the words I must speak spark in my mind. The old oaths will be spoken anew.”

“They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory.”

The first is (Spoilers, by the way. Did I mention this post contains spoilers?) presumably Kaladin jumping over the chasm to engage the Parshendi during the climax of "The Way of Kings". The second is Kaladin and Shallan emerging from the chasm with the gemheart in "Words of Radiance".

Okay first off, we know that while a lot of the details seem like metaphors... they're not. Death rattles are structured to look vague when you don't know what they're about, but precisely accurate when you do. When analyzing these things, the details and exact wording can be more important than the impression you get upon reading them. If you see any metaphors, imagine them in a literal sort of way. Beware of metaphors. Metaphors are things of the voidbringers (well, technically, so are death rattles, but whatever).

The second, and perhaps most important, thing to establish is perspective. It's unclear just who's talking in death rattles. Is the subject describing a scene he/she sees in the future, or is he/she channeling another character? I think the consensus in the community is that some rattle are visions, while others are channeling. Keep in mind, though, that it might be all channeling. In fact, it's quite possible that all rattles are from the perspective of viewpoint characters (Both of the above could be taken from Kaladin and Dalinar's perspective, respectively). Also, note that death rattles are of future events. Moelach is described as an instigator for "precognition", not just any visions. That's important.

How is this laid out? I've gone and categorized the rattles in the rough order they were given in (not in the order they appeared). Note that it's a good idea to read and reread the quote several times before and after you read the analysis for it, for comprehension. You might also want to try going and reading the quotes in the "connections?" section. My strategy for comprehension is to reread each individual "thought" in the rattle several times until I feel as if I understand its possible ramifications. Anything else... Ah yes, word of warning: I stayed up pretty late writing these and the line between "creativity" and "dementia" gets fuzzy at some points. :)

So aaaaanyway... let's get to to actual analysis.

1


Chronological number: 1

Quote: “You've killed me. @#!*% , you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die!”

Perspective: The Healers seem to think this guy is just angry at them for killing him. He might also be channeling someone. Either way, this vision has some interesting interpretations

My Thoughts: So if we're assuming this is a lucid death rattle, then what we can get out of it is that this guy foresees the sun going cold. He's screaming at the irony that he would die before the end of the world even happened. If he's channeling someone, then we can probably tie it to the death rattle theme of "the murder". This is from the perspective of the victim

Connections?: #13- Possibly a reference to the same murder, assuming this speaker is channeling someone
#17- Says "the light grows distant"

-Sasukerinnegan: Suggests the guy is angry for not being able to stop the setting of the sun in Shadesmar (see #6)



2


Chronological number: 2

Quote: “The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather... we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes.”

Perspective: This seems, at first glance, to be given by the speaker. Outis has pointed out,though, that judging by what we know about the Rosharian calendar, this was actually given 1229 days before the everstorm came, not 1000. So either this guy was really melodramatic and chose to use 1000 because saying "it is but one-thousand-two-hundred-and-twenty-nine days, and the Everstorm comes" would ruin the effect, or... he's channeling someone who predicted the Everstorm exactly 229 days after this death rattle was given. My wild guess is Renarin in that case, but who knows?

My Thoughts: So this is the very first epigraph we see in The Way of Kings. I feel inclined to believe that just like in Mistborn, the first epigraph is going to be the most relevant to the series as a whole. The only problem is that this is basically just a metaphor. Hmm... What's that? "Metaphors cannot be trusted under any circumstances"? Oh right! Well, digging deeper, it does seem oddly specific, with the "three steps" from the ice and all. Many rattles that we'll see later on (not to mention the one above) mention the world going cold by the end. Looking at it that way, the three steps that lead to the ice could be three actual steps the world will take to reach its end. #6 seems to strengthen the idea that the metaphor here has a double meaning, since it lists out three things that could be those steps. Presumably, the first step is the Everstorm, the next is the True Desolation, culminating in the Night of Sorrows.

...But as for the rest of it... well, I'm not sure. I presume "The love of men" has some sort of literal interpretation too, but the only thing I can think of is Hoid's quote at the end of WoR that "We will find honor in the hearts of men". "We are his" could mean that the speaker has no hope for the world's survival. It could also mean that "he" has plans to enslave humanity just like with the listeners.


Connections?: #1- Implies that the sun might not be hot by the end of the world
#5- Also mentions a distant sun, though it's probably a shadesmar reference
#6- This is the BEST! It specifically mentions THREE different things that are probably steps in Odium's plan.
#7- The subject is cold and the rain won't stop
#9- Possible reference to enslavement
#10-Probably says that humanity is being sent to Braize
#17-More references to the light growing weaker, eternal rain, etc.
#35-States that the night will reign

-Ookla the Stupendous: Pointed out that Dalinar and Taravangian are also possible perspectives
-Zas617: Pointed out that the "mountain stream" thing could be a reference to the Horneater shardpools
-Susekarinnegan: The love of men could be the dominance of humans over Parshendi


3



Chronological number: 3

Quote: “Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone?”

Perspective: Well, the speaker is obviously channeling someone, but who? Naturally, we assume that this is an old member of the Knights Radiant, possibly relating to the Recreance, but remember that this is a future perspective. One of the Heralds? Possibly, but they aren't Vorin, so I don't think it's likely they would use the word "Almighty". The only other thing I can think of is that this is one of the "new" radiants, in which case it's probably a viewpoint character. Kaladin, Shallan, Renarin, Lift, or... yeah, one of those kinds of guys.

My Thoughts: I've racked my brain looking for another way to look at "ten orders". Alas, it seems to be the simple explanation ie. the Knights Radiant. "Loved, once"? This could be interpreted as "loved by the public" or "having divine favor". The speaker is apparently Vorin and feels as if he/she has been abandoned by the Almighty... what's really interesting is the last sentence. It sounds to me as if the speaker has lost either their spren or part of their spiritweb. No doubt, this has to do with the terrible recreance secret that Mr. T is planning to use against the Knights (I pity da fool who develops a Nahel Bond!). I'm pretty sure the shardworlds won't be mixing too much, but it almost sounds like hemalurgy... I suppose speculation is kind of pointless.

Connections?: #20- I have no idea what this is, but it might have something to do with it and I would feel bad leaving the "connections?" thing blank

-Ookla the Stupendous: Suggested Taln is a possible perspective. "How do we know he's not Vorin?"
-Dreamer: One of the modern Surgebinders might simply be saying this because they ARE abandoned by the past. The Heralds, the old Radiants, and Honor have kind of hung them out to dry.


4



Chronological number: 4

Quote: “A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears.”

Perspective: Seems like the speaker... could be anyone watching this, too.

My Thoughts: Whoo. I waited a long time to tackle this one. Breaks your heart, doesn't it? The first thing that comes to mind here is Dalinar watching Kholinar get wrecked by the "Super-Everstorm". That and maybe Hoid's story about two blind men awaiting the end of an era. But... those just seem too obvious. Imean, maybe I'm just used to overthinking things, but where does water come into that? Kholinar is landlocked, last I checked, and... well, yeah. "fall into dust" is kind of a strange way of saying "break apart". Perhaps it has something to do with the order of the Dustbringers or something. "The waters SURGED" is definitely suspicious. The man crying like a child reminds me of Taravangian on his stupider days. Could this be about Kharbranth? Vedenar? (Man, this interpretation is garbled!)

Connections?: 13-Has Crying... I dunno
17-Resembles this one a lot, though I don't think they're related.

-Sasukerinnegan: Has suggested this one relates to #32, with the breaking of land and whatnot. He suggests this is the application of sound-based weapon like what made the impressions for other cities



5



Chronological number: 5

Quote: “I'm dying, aren't I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.”

Perspective: It seems as if this is a man rambling in his final moments. It's possible, however, that he's channeling someone who is dying in Taravangian's hospital in the future, which I would find ironic. Whether he's spasming or not during the quote isn't stated on the record, so it's difficult to say.

My Thoughts: It's Shadesmar, obviously. Actually, it might be too obvious that it's Shadesmar, could it be a trick?... Nah, it's probably Shadesmar. Other possible but unlikely interpretations are that Mr. Linehead is actually Moelach. Note that some rattles talk about the sun fading away and the land turning cold, so... yeah. Maybe.

Connections?: 1- Another possible example of a person remaining lucid while giving a death rattle



6



Chronological number: 6

Quote: “I have seen the end, and have heard it named. The Night of Sorrows, the True Desolation. The Everstorm.”

Perspective: Either the speaker or another seer

My Thoughts: This rattle is a big component of the "3 steps" theory that all of those cool young people have been hyping about. Just me? Fine. Well anyway, we see these three phrases several times in Dalinar's visions in the Way of Kings, just mixed up. Presumably, they're all names for the Everstorm. In Dalinar's recreance vision though, Tanavast seems to be saying them as different things, which is why, especially when coupled with rattle #2, I think that these are the 3 steps in the plan to end Roshar: The Everstorm awakens the Parshmen and Listeners, The True Desolation is their rampage, The Night of Sorrows is what's left once the land is broken and the humans are dead. "Three steps from the ice"... Well, I have doubts about my theory, but rattle #2 is very suspicious.

Connections?: -In Dalinar's recreance WoK vision, Tanavast says “I have said I that cannot be of much help to you. The Night of Sorrows will come, and the True Desolation. The Everstorm.”

-In Dalinar's final WoK vision, Tanavast says “Unite them. The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows.”

#2- Probably refers to there being 3 steps in Odium's plan

-Sasukerinnegan: Has suggested that the "Night of Sorrows" is in not the physical, but the cognitive realm. It refers to an event where Shadesmar's distant, white sun sets and voidspren take control away from the kingdoms currently in power.



7



Chronological number: 7

Quote: “I'm cold. Mother, I'm cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop?”

Perspective: Sounds like some kid. There are still 8 books and 10-20 in-world years for such a character to pop up, so I don't have any answers.

My Thoughts: It's cold. it's raining eternally. the person has someone they call their mother. I don't have any bright ideas on what it means otherwise.

Connections?: 17-"The storm never stops"

-Ookla the Stupendous: Mother could be a reference to the "Midnight Mother", Re-shepir
-KamorianKandra13: The rattle isn't necessarily about a child. Pretty much any living person could have said this




8



Chronological number: 8

Quote: “They are aflame. They burn. They bring the darkness when they come, and so all you can see is that their skin is aflame. Burn, burn, burn...”

Perspective: No good theories on this one perspectivewise

My Thoughts: Flameform? Apparently. This has gotta be some kind of Listener form or voidbringer type... But other than that, all I can say is that they apparently bring "the darkness" when they come, whatever that is. Probably something specific, but we just don't know.

Connections?: #32- Talks about burning things (though it's supposedly a metaphor)



9



Chronological number: 9

Quote: “He watches! The Black piper in the night. He holds us in his palm... playing a tune that no man can hear!”

Perspective: Cenn seems to be as good a candidate as anyone (he's the speaker here, if you don't remember).

My Thoughts: It's probs talking about Odium or an Unmade. I can't see past the "metaphor". Anyone else have any bright ideas?

Connections?:


-Ookla the Stupendous: Hoid certainly knows his way around pipes, or perhaps Moelach
-Mckeedee123: Perhaps this relates to the songs that the Parshendi can tune into. Humans certainly can't hear them (except when attuned to the thrill, I think.)


10



Chronological number: 10

Quote: “Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn.”

Perspective: A voidbringer. I think that much is obvious. Possibly a parshendi viewpoint character.

My Thoughts: So I think we can definitely say that the voidbringers won some battle in the future, and... they feel good about it. The really significant thing here as far as we know is the "they shall burn" part. It's wierd, really. As far as we know, the desolations have primarily been about killing people, not sending them off to some place to "burn". It is, however, part of Vorin mythology that the voidbringers' objective was to drive humanity from Roshar to Damnation (Braize). Just make sure to keep the scene in mind for interpretation once we see it in a book, especially the "mount": either a hill or a riding animal (the latter seems unlikely).

PS: Taking another look, the winners and losers here seem intentially vague. For all we know, this is from the perspective of a pack of thunderclasts bearing down on a group of Listener dissidents. In fact, it could be a couple of Heralds who are talking here... just sayin'.

Connections?: #23- Implies that there will be some sort of order after the end
#32- Looks kind of like the same scene being viewed from the other side
#34- Possibly refers to humanity's defeat



11



Chronological number: 11

Quote: “Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red.”

Perspective: *Shrug*

My Thoughts: This looks like some sort of final battle against the Voidbringers at first. It might be. It's also incredibly vague. Ten people have live shardblades (not neccesarily shardplate), and they stand before either a "wall" of an army or a literal "wall" that's black, white, and red. Doubtlessly we'll understand which epic scene this refers to in 20 years.

Connections?: I don't see any obvious connections for this one :(

Zas617: Perhaps it's the Heralds or 10 Knights Radiant members



12



Chronological number: 12

Quote: “Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns.”

Perspective: Who knows? Who cares?

My Thoughts: "Three of sixteen ruled". Well, it shouldn't take too much puzzling too figure out that's Honor, Cultivation, and Odium ruling Greater Roshar. The Broken One is presumably Odium, though he hasn't been called the "Broken One" up to this point, I believe.

Connections?: Stormfather talking to Kaladin in WoK says "Odium Reigns"
35- Says the night will reign in the future

-Sasukerinnegan: Has proposed that Adonalsium is the Broken One.



13



Chronological number: 13

Quote: “I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?”

Perspective: I have no idea. Same problem as with numero 7. Of course, this one might not be part of the climax. In that case... Adolin/Renarin, right? Or Shallan and Balat/Wikim/Jushu...? Or Lopen and... his brothers (he must have some)... or, um... etc.

My Thoughts: First off, "brother" is probably not a metaphor (metaphors are of the voidbringers, remember?). We are, in all likelyhood, looking at the actual brother of the speaker (not that it can't be metaphor, but looking at the structure of rattles we've already interpreted, it seems less likely). Second, this isn't something that's already happened, vague as it may be. The "we" implies group action, so no Kaladin/Tien ( this rattle was given after that event happened). Let's break it down into simple facts. This person is standing over their brother's body (which is probably dead). They are crying. They are wondering if some blood is his or theirs (on his hands, on the ground, on a wall...?). The speaker implies that a group they're in caused it somehow. With no context clues to work from, I am "clueless" as to what it will mean.

Connections?: 1- The guy is angry at dying. I dunno
4- The subject is crying
18-Refers to a murder. We have no idea how old the "brother" is

Ookla of the Corn: Posits that #25 shows us rattles aren't neccesarily gender-specific. Perhaps this is Eshonai and Venli.
Zas617: Thinks that perhaps the blood on the hands is metaphorical (it's a common expression) and this might mean the subject is Dalinar



14



Chronological number: 14

Quote: “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!”

Perspective: Looks like the speaker, could be someone else.

My Thoughts: I don't really have any idea what this could be referring to. The exclamation points seem to imply an urgency that goes beyond a simple "you should become the king/highprince". "Title" could still either be a legal status or a banner. For all we know, it might as well be Honor's title. I did a quick search on my kindle (don't you just love e-readers) for "tower crown", "crown spear, and "spear tower" in WoK and WoR and the only thing I got was that the Kholin glyphpair is shaped like a crown and tower. So that's a probable connection (though it seems a little obvious)

Connections?: -Kholin glyphpair is shaped like a tower and crown.
-Spears are everywhere

Ookla of the Corn: Guesses that this is talking about Kaladin
Ookla the Stupendous: Suggests that this happens in the aftermath of Elhokar or Dalinar's death, or perhaps has to do with the the fallen title of the leader of the Radiants
Zea Mays: This has to do with Kaladin's assault on the tower. Lots of spears, lots of towers.



15



Chronological number: 15

Quote: “The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me.”

Perspective: Looks like either Taln or the person who calls himself Taln or... someone else

My Thoughts: This rattle seems like a dead ringer for Taln finally cracking under torture. It could also be the moment when some guy became Faux-Taln... Too bad we currently know absolutely nada about TPWCHT and how he came to be under this burden.

Connections?:



16



Chronological number: 16

Quote: “A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal.”

Perspective: No one obvious.

My Thoughts: A lot of the community has pointed out that this is probably Shalash/Baxil's mistress (since they might be different people). The woman isn't actually scratching out her literal eyes on her body, she's scratching out the eyes of a statue of herself. Shalash is Jezrien's daughter (who is a king but probably not wind). All in all, it's a pretty good fit.

Connections?: Makes me feel bad not having anything here :(



17



Chronological number: 17

Quote: “Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us.”

Perspective: A viewpoint character, probably. Other than that, I can't guess

My Thoughts: Humph. The vagueness here is killing me. We can't really tell who's saying this or what side they're on. This seems like one of them "climax rattles", though. I wanna say it's a human viewpoint character, but it might be a Listener. The lights are going out, the Everstorm is eternal. The speaker is "broken". Everyone around them is dead. They are crying. They think they have been beaten by a male character. There.

Connections?: 1- possibly references the sun going cold later
4- resembles this one a lot, though I don't think they're related

Ookla the Stupendous: Has referenced someone's theory where Roshar runs out of stormlight in relation to this rattle

Andrew C: This refers to the defeatism or depression of the Stormfather



18



Chronological number: 18

Quote: “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.”

Perspective: Someone we know or will know eventually. We don't have any context clues here.

My Thoughts: This one is another beast, and I didn't get to it till the end. First off, the "suckling child" is probably not going to be Amaram/Elhokar/Sadeas or even a metaphor *shudder*, as some people have guessed, unless they were reincarnated as evil Odium-babies or... something *more shuddering*. Whatever it is, it's male. I call this "the murder". Several death rattles might refer to this event. The big question here is: What in Braize is going on? How does killing a child give the speaker and his/her group "further breath to draw"? Again, I have no answers.

Connections?: 1- The speaker has been killed/murdered.
13-The speaker is witnessing the aftermath of their brother's death. Note the blood on his hands
20-Possibly the aftermath when the speaker decides to go through with it
35-Possibly the aftermath when the speaker decides not to go through with it (pretty obvious connection here)

Andrew C: If Odium wants a champion, he might try to coerce one of the Knights to do something dishonorable to get them on his side, creating a situation like this.



19



Chronological number: 19

Quote: “Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die!”

Perspective: Probably the speaker

My Thoughts: This could be a future event, but it's more likely that this isn't a death rattle per se. It looks to me as if another Unmade has swooped in to consume some souls at Taravangian's death-buffet. As to its significance, I can't guess. Perhaps she's the embodiment of the voidbinding equivelant of Regrowth.

Connections?: 28-Same idea, different Unmade

Ookla the Stupendous: Has posited that if this one is foresight, it could reference some sort of ritual sacrifice to awaken an Unmade.



20



Chronological number: 20

Quote: “The death is my life, the strength becomes my weakness, the journey has ended.”

Perspective: Not the speaker, no matter what the Ghostbloods think. Practically anyone but the speaker could be this guy

My Thoughts: Sooo... What is this, exactly? Nobody knows. It could be the first oath for "voidbinding", which makes no sense (just look at what it's really saying) unless Odium just wanted to have the opposite oath of Honor because he was jealous. It could be an anti-oath that breaks the Nahel Bond, which also doesn't quite fit and none of the KR had to say anything to break their bonds in Dalinar's Recreance vision. Finally, it could be something that an actual character actually says as part of the book. I'm rooting for #3. "The death" sounds to me as if it's the killing of someone else (by which I mean not the person who actually says this in the future). Either someone's death fuels this character's life or else the speaker has devoted himself/herself to a specific murder. "The strength" line. Well, either this person is using a power which is only temporary and saps their life away after they're done or else what they did to get "the strength" actually weakened them, as in: I'm a Radiant who just broke my oaths to get some extra life. "The journey" is, well... I dunno. Come to think of it, though, this does seem to correspond to numero 18 somehow...

Connections?: Um, well, it's mostly the opposite of the first oath of the Knights Radiant (which you probs already noticed)
#18- potentially refers to a murder that could extend everyone's lives

-Sasukerinnegan: Suggests that this is one of the Heralds, banished to Braize during the Night of Sorrows (See #6)



21



Chronological number: 21

Quote: “Above the final void I hang, friends behind, friends before. The feast I must drink clings to their faces, and the words I must speak spark in my mind. The old oaths will be spoken anew.”

Perspective: Probs Kaladin

My Thoughts: Kaladin says the first oath at the battle of the tower. Final void = chasm. Friends = bridgemen/Kholin army. Feast = stormlight in beards (After all, who HASN'T looked at a good beard decoration and thought "I wanna eat that".)

Connections?: In the scene at the battle of the tower... this happens, basically



22



Chronological number: 22

Quote: “In the storm I awaken, falling, spinning, grieving.”

My Perspective: Viewpoint character. Several people have guessed Eshonai waking up after the Battle of Narak.

My Thoughts: "Storm" is probably a Highstorm or the Everstorm. "Awaken" could have several meanings, so ponder that. "falling", "spinning", and "grieving" all at once. I could give a few guesses as to who this will be, but they're just guesses. I'm not even going to bother naming them

Connections?:



23



Chronological number: 23

Quote: “The darkness becomes a palace. Let it rule! Let it rule!”

My Perspective: A voidbringer, probably *Shrugs*

My Thoughts: This one seems kind of obvious... except we have no idea what it means (man, I'm tired of typing that phrase)

Connections?:



24



Chronological number: 24

Quote: “I wish to sleep. I know now why you do what you do, and I hate you for it. I will not speak of the truths I see.”

Perspective: Sounds like the Shin talking. For all we know it could be a rattle. The Diagrammists thought it wasn't

My Thoughts: What does this mean? Well, this guy apparently figured out Mr. T's hospitals were a sham designed to collect death rattles and he refuses to tell what he saw. The Shin DO seem kinda knowledge-y about what's going on with the desolations. I can't help but wonder what Stone Shamanism is really about.

Connections?:



25



Chronological number: 25

Quote: “They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory.”

Perspective: Speaker, Dalinar, A bridgeman, Kholin soldiers... I could keep going on possible perspectives, but my candidate is Dalinar

My Thoughts: Kaladin and Shallan emerge from the chasms when they were presumed dead. Pit = Chasm. Dead men = Supposedly dead man and dead woman. Heart = Gemheart.

Connections?: Read it in WoR, I guess, if you want to find the connections...?



26



Chronological number: 26

Quote: “I see them. They are the rocks. They are the vengeful spirits. Eyes of red.”

Perspective: ...?

My Thoughts: Alright. Lets just get this one out of the way: Thunderclasts. Right? They're rock, they've got red eyes, they're... vengeful, according to this, right? It's possible that this rattle is not talking about thunderclasts, though. This rattle really reminds me of Stone Shamanism. The Shamans seem to revere the spren of stone, who, according to those guys, don't like being stepped on. Are the spren who become thunderclasts just rocks who are disenfranchised with their rocky lives?

Connections?: #24-This Shin sounds pretty self-righteous about the future, if he's the one talking
#33-Sounds like the rockvolution to me



27



Chronological number: 27

Quote: “That chanting, that singing, those rasping voices.”

Perspective: A person somewhere

My Thoughts: umm... quick guess: Listeners fighting. I don't know about the rasping voices, though. Only a single, dying, Parshendi has been reported by Dalinar to be "rasping".

Connections?: -According to Shallan in WoK, Raspings are mythical monsters on par with nightspren
34-also mentions rasping

Andrew C: this could refer to chanting that created the Everstorm


28



Chronological number: 28

Quote: “Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!”

Perspective: Speaker, almost certainly

My Thoughts: Again, this doesn't look like one of Moelach's death rattles, but another Unmade is probably crashing the party. Dai-gonarthis = Sorrow.

Connections?: #19-Same sorta deal



29



Chronological number: 29

Quote: “They named it the Final Desolation, but they lied. Our gods lied. Oh, how they lied. The Everstorm comes. I hear its whispers, see its stormwall, know its heart.”

Perspective: A Human or a Listener/Parshman

My Thoughts: so first off, who are "our gods"? The Listeners have gods, so it might be them. The humans have the Heralds. The person can apparently "hear its whispers", though, which says "Listener" to me.

Connections?:

-Mckeedee123: When Sigzil is talking about Emuli culture down in the chasms, he mentions that Vorinism reveres the Heralds as gods, but Teft scoffs and says something to the affect of "the Heralds aren't our gods". I'm pretty much convinced now that this from a listener perspective.



30



Chronological number: 30

Quote: “All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.”

Perspective: Probs Dalinar

My Thoughts: I think that there is a consensus among the community that this is Kaladin speaking the second oath. That's fine, but I disagree, personally. My guess is that the "I" in this vision is Dalinar. Why? First of all, while it's oft remarked that "The storm responds" sounds like windrunner powers, the much better explanation is that "the storm" is actually the stormfather (Who Dalinar is bonded to). It just fits better, and feels like a closer match to the interpretations we've all but proven already. Dalinar also knows plenty of people who've killed his promises. My guess is Kaladin vs. Amaram with Dalinar protecting Amaram.

PS: Taking another look, this could be Kaladin vs. Dalinar with Kaladin protecting Amaram (as Kaladin has supposedly gotten over his issues with protecting by the end of WoR). The storm might be responding AGAINST Kaladin/whoever raising his hand... I, Well, storms. I'm getting less confident that I know what's going on in this rattle... I have no idea what "All is withdrawn for me" means, either. Weapons? Perhaps everyone else is right, but I still don't buy it

Connections?: I'd guess this one isn't related to the series' climax... Idunno

Ookla the Inifinite: Has pointed out that the chapter where Kaladin is imprisoned is titled "The One Who Kills Promises", which he cites as evidence that this is Kaladin defending Elhokar.

Pretty much everyone who has posted so far: Thinks I'm wrong. It's cool.



31



Chronological number: 31

Quote: “Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above.”

Perspective: Idunno. A poet.

My Thoughts: Jasnah's right. Keteks are a pretty terrible way to communicate information. "the storms" could mean a single storm or both storms (Highstorms and the Everstorm). "the silence above" could mean the fact that Honor is dead.

Connections?:



32



Chronological number: 32

Quote: “They break the land itself! They want it, but in their rage they will destroy it. Like the jealous man burns his rich things rather than let them be taken by his enemies! They come!”

Perspective: A sentient being

My Thoughts: Alright, fine. This one has a metaphor. We can guess that this is the voidbringers destroying stuff, etc. Note that the metaphor goes out of its way to include burning in it.

Connections?:



33



Chronological number: 33

Quote: “And all the world was shattered! The rocks trembled with their steps, and the stones reached toward the heavens. We die! We die!"

Perspective: Someone

My Thoughts: This one reminds everyone of the Shattered Plains. Whatever it was that broke Stormseat might have been able to have a wider effect. Whose "steps" are making the rocks tremble? Are the "stones" reaching towards the heavens thunderclasts or Everstorm debris or something?

Connections?:



34



Chronological number: 34

Quote: “The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather!”

Perspective: A person

My Thoughts: So either these people were thinking they were going to win a battle, but they lost (or something like that), or else "they" took the actual light of day away. The lights are, apparently, failing, after all. Note that the enemy is reportedly "rasping", something we haven't seen before.

Connections?:

Andrew C: This could be a reference to Roshar running out of Stormlight.


35



Chronological number: 35

Quote: “So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life...”

Perspective: ???

My Thoughts: Well this is awfully depressing. I mean, I guess that practically every rattle in this list points somehow to Odium winning, but not so blatantly (okay, maybe some of 'em are pretty blatant). I know that none of us believe that Odium will actually be able to destroy Roshar, but... think about it. In the greater context of the Cosmere, it DOES make sense that there needs to be a villain. Odium has already influenced other shardworlds (by which I mean kill their shardbearers) and we don't really know what the main conflict in Dragonsteel is. Would the ending of the series be fulfilling if Roshar reached its highest level of honor at the same moment it was destroyed? That seems to be what this rattle implies. Personally, I'd be okay with it so long as a few main characters got to be chullstompin' worldhoppers in the 17th Shard (Could I lodge a formal plea to change "badchull"/"kickchull" to "chullstomping"? It sounds better, I think).

Connections?: #18-Seems to show a simple choice between journey and destination

-Sasukerinnegan: Suggests Kaladin is the viewpoint character here. He also connects it to part of The Diagram, where Taravangian writes that the Alethi should push to destroy the Parshendi before one of them obtains "the power", forming a bridge. He guesses that this event occurs in book 5, where at the end of the first half of the series, only a few characters survive and have to reclaim the world from the voidbringers, an arc that covers books 6-10




So what DOES lie in Roshar's future?

-Death, misery, chouta etc. I mean, I know it's not profound or nothin', but these are the things all of the rattles point to (and chouta eases the pain).

-Unmade we know of:
-Moelach/Title unkown/Precognition (note that people associate seeing the future with voidbringers)
-Re-Shepir/Midnight Mother/"Gives birth to abominations"
-Dai-gonarthis/Black Fisher/Destroys dreams?
-Sja-Anat/Title unkown/Corrupts spren
-Yelig-nar/Blightwind/Consumes people or souls (Nohadon mentions all his scribes were slaughtered when Yelignar broke into his "chancery" during a desolation)
-Nergaoul/Title unknown/brings the thrill

-For some odd reason, we see two kinds of destruction here in these rattles. One is flames and armies, the other is rain and darkness. Those two don't really mix. The dichotomy probably means there's a difference between what I call the "True Desolation" and the "Night of Sorrows"

*Got bored of writing this section*


So, yeah. The real reason I posted this wasn't to see if I could figure the future out myself. I hope people discuss this and suggest things to add on to it. Most of the interpretations I made are downright lazy (though I'm proud of quite a few). I'll be prowling this thread like a chasmfiend looking for other interpretations that people bring up so that I can add to them to this (and then put their names next to the addition, of course).

 

EDIT: Whoa, Great! I edited some stuff, and the spoiler things randomly started working! That makes it more readable, I'm sure

Edited by Mckeedee123
10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really hate to be "that guy", but there's already a post containing all of the death rattles in the name of general analysis. Feel free to copy/paste this beautiful wordwall over to here for discussion.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm gonna analyse in this thread anyway, without reading the other, just to see if I can come to the same conclusions that people came to in the other thread.

 

I'll do that tomorrow. I need sleep.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really hate to be "that guy", but there's already a post containing all of the death rattles in the name of general analysis. Feel free to copy/paste this beautiful wordwall over to here for discussion.

 

Well, yeah, but the other thread is more of a disorganized discussion than anything. Someone brings up a new topic, it gets a few responses, then people move on. The idea here is/was to add onto it so that people don't have to look through the entire thread to get anything. My opinions are just placeholders for when/if people want to add their theories.

Edited by mckeedee123
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, I agree that we can assume that the Rattles all happen in the future, not the past. But if so, we need the dates for all of these Rattles. Could you add in the book notations for them?

 

Second off, Chullstomping is indeed better than badchull.

 

Third, I don't think it's possible to be Lucid in one of these, since your soul is being burned away to fuel the rattles. 

 

My analysis, and remarks, in order of Rattle:

 

#1

(Assuming not Lucid) The person they're channeling would have to be someone who can see the future, Like Renarin. Otherwise they wouldn't know that the sun will go dark.

 

#2

This is one where I would like the date it was given. The Perspective could be Dalinar, Renearin or even Taravangian, depending on how much information he had at the time. I think you're right about the three steps.

 

#3

Where does it say the Heralds aren't Vorin? This might be the guy who isn't Taln.

 

#4

Probably Taravangian and Kharbranth

 

#5

Everyone assumes it's Shadesmar. But your own theory about the three steps calls for the sun to go cold. The Night of True Sorrow. This guy is channeling a guy who dies in the hospital later, right as the night of true sorrow starts.

 

#6

Nothing Much.

 

#7

Sometime after the Night of True Sorrows has started. Mother could be referring to the Nightwatcher.

 

#8

Nothing Much

 

#9

We have three Unmade without titles. I'm betting this is Moelach's title. If it's not an Unmade, It could be Hoid, he knows how to Pipe.

-Moelach/Title unkown/Precognition

 

#10

Yeah, to vague. My first thought was the heralds banishing the Parshendi to Braize.

 

#11

Assuming it's not a metaphor, but is an actual wall, it could reference Urithiru. Standing before the wall, could mean facing it, or having their back to it. So it could be knights Radiant defending Urithiru. Can you check your E-books to see if the Colour of Urithiru is noted?

 

I'll do another 11 later, after Thanksgiving is over.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

#11

Assuming it's not a metaphor, but is an actual wall, it could reference Urithiru. Standing before the wall, could mean facing it, or having their back to it. So it could be knights Radiant defending Urithiru. Can you check your E-books to see if the Colour of Urithiru is noted?

 

I did some searches, and Urithiru's color isn't explicitly stated in The Way of Kings or Words of Radiance. I did find something interesting related to #26, though. On my last read-through, I apparently missed that the Shin are OK with walking on stone in "Urithiru, with its stones unhallowed".  in the beginning of the book, Jasnah mentions that the legends say Urithiru is protected from the voidbringers. It's another possible connection between repect/fear of thunderclasts and Stone Shamanism.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the ending of the first five books now. Brandons doing something innovative again. The bad guys win after five books. I agree with the authors three steps theory. The everstorm first, the true desolation and the night of sorrows. And the rattles make sense now. See, the night of sorrows refer to the setting of the sun in Shadesmar when probably the Voidspren are dominant. Thats why the guy in quote 1 is angry.He dies early and is unable to stop the setting of the sun in Shadesmar. Again some other quotes make sense now. Someone is given the choice of killing a helpless person (or perhaps literally a baby) to delay the onset of of the Niggt of Sorrows. Im guessing thia is Kaladin. But Kaladin is honourable, so he spares the child or the helpless man. This is what it means - So the night will reign for the choice of honour is life. So Kaladin causes the Night of Sorrows. Combine this with Nr Ts predictions, he says one of the Parshendi will form a bridge and that this one has to be destroyed. I'm guessing Kaladin doesnt kill this child or man. The rest is describing their deaths in the Night of Sorrows. Many people die, they all lose their lives in the Night of Sorrows and the Parshendi get their revenge. They defeat the humans and occupy their lands and homes. I'm guessing a few people - Renarin, Taravangian, some of the Heralds retreat and decide to escape to fight a future battle . This is what books 6 - 10 are about, reclaiming the world from the Night of Sorrows and the Voidbringers.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that would be an explanation for why the apocalypse started in book 2, instead of a more sensible point in the series. (I mean seriously? At least the Scadrians do it right, waiting until the last book to really push the whole "end of the world" thing.)

Edited by mckeedee123
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something to note: from the "True Glory" chapter in WoR we learned that these visions are not gender specific ( the "two men" emerging from the pit were actually a man and a woman).

My suspicion is that "I stand over the body of a brother..." Might actually be about two sisters: Eshonai and Venli (in some other thread somewhere I have speculated that "in the storm I awaken..." Is from Eshonai's perspective).

Oh, and I think there is some general agreement that "all is withdrawn from me..." Is again a book climax from Kaladin's perspective: his final confrontation with Moash.

Ok one more: my guess that the person who must "take up the title and the crown and the spear" is ( you guessesd it) everyone's favorite windrunner (in grand high-fantasy tradition)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About quote 20, its definitely about one of the Heralds. He is refering to himself. Normally, the Heralds are banished to Braize only at the the time of their deaths. But now he is banished to Braize even when he is still living since humanity lost in the Night of Sorrows. His strength has become his weakness since he is unable to die. His journey has ended because he has failed. And the other quote saying He shud pick it up the tower crown and spear, that is somethiromng that hfas already thappened. Kaladin picks up the spear and saves Dalinarthecrown the from the plateau known as the tower.

Edited by Sasukerinnegan
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something to note: from the "True Glory" chapter in WoR we learned that these visions are not gender specific ( the "two men" emerging from the pit were actually a man and a woman).

My suspicion is that "I stand over the body of a brother..." Might actually be about two sisters: Eshonai and Venli (in some other thread somewhere I have speculated that "in the storm I awaken..." Is from Eshonai's perspective).

Oh, and I think there is some general agreement that "all is withdrawn from me..." Is again a book climax from Kaladin's perspective: his final confrontation with Moash.

Ok one more: my guess that the person who must "take up the title and the crown and the spear" is ( you guessesd it) everyone's favorite windrunner (in grand high-fantasy tradition)

 

Hmm... I can't help but disagree to some of these (though I added them). First off, while the word "men" can be used to denote either sex (eg. "What is the measure of a man when he is gone?"), "brother" is gender-specific (though I suppose that's only in the literal sense).

 

Yeah, I already included in #30's interpretation that most of the community is sold on the idea of it being Kaladin standing against Moash. That interpretation of it sort of fits, but I have my doubts. Back before Words of Radiance was published, people kept trying to make connections with that one in The Way of Kings, too. Both people described in it could be practically anyone if you think about it enough. Moash kind of saved Kaladin's life. Elhokar kind of broke Kaladin's promises, but it's really not a very good fit, overall. Not the kind that fills you with satisfaction because of how perfect it all is (the two rattles mentioned at the very top did that for me). To top it off, in a span of ten books, if we see more than one rattle fulfilled in each, we're gonna run out fast (there won't be any left for the climax!)   :o  

Edited by mckeedee123
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 And the other quote saying He shud pick it up the tower crown and spear, that is somethiromng that hfas already thappened. Kaladin picks up the spear and saves Dalinarthecrown the from the plateau known as the tower.

 

Hmm... well, he doesn't really pick up the tower, which makes me pretty skeptical. I'll add it anyway.

 

EDIT: Storms... double-post

Edited by Mckeedee123
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 and 32 quotes are related as well as the one about a person crying when he witnessed his city fall into dust and also the one about the stones reaching the heavens. All of them represent the application of the same sound based weapon or vibration based weapon used in the destruction of the Dawncities during Aharietiam. It represents a massive power strong enough to push the stones towards the heavens. Also, I suggest adding the Diagram and the predictions of the nightforms to this topic for a more comprehensive analysis of the future.

Edited by Sasukerinnegan
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I already included in #30's interpretation that most of the community is sold on the idea of it being Kaladin standing against Moash. That interpretation of it sort of fits, but I have my doubts. Back before Words of Radiance was published, people kept trying to make connections with that one in The Way of Kings, too. Both people described in it could be practically anyone if you think about it enough. Moash kind of saved Kaladin's life. Elhokar kind of broke Kaladin's promises,

 

The title of chapter 62, where Kaladin's in jail, is titled "The One Who Killed Promises". Similarly, the one where Kaladin and Shallan return with a gemheart is titled "True Glory". This is pretty strong evidence that that Death Rattle refers to Kaladin, Moash, and Elhokar.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a theory for - Once three of sixteen ruled but now the broken one rules. Who do we know that is broken? Adonalsium!! Now we know that the 17th shard's one leader seems to consider Adonalsium god judging from his letters to Hoid. We also know some of the secret societies know about Adonalsium from WoB. What im suggesting is that due to the interference of some or all of these groups, an imperfect Adonalsium is ressurected which only contains Honor, Odium and cultivation. Also an awesome alternate theory about the sun setting or the Night of Sorrows, Odium transforms the sun into a red dwarf. Red dwarfs have about 1/10000 luminosity of the sun and are usually not visible to the naked eye. (Source - Wikipedia) Also red dwarfs can have habitable planets near them. ( Source - http://sen.com/news/habitable-planets-common-around-red-dwarf-stars). Since a red dwarf is relatively a cooler star, Roshar would be cold almost freezing.

Edited by Sasukerinnegan
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Feedback to above Ideas.

Something to note: from the "True Glory" chapter in WoR we learned that these visions are not gender specific ( the "two men" emerging from the pit were actually a man and a woman).
My suspicion is that "I stand over the body of a brother..." Might actually be about two sisters: Eshonai and Venli (in some other thread somewhere I have speculated that "in the storm I awaken..." Is from Eshonai's perspective).

Again, men isn't gender specific, Brother is, but there is still a possibility in this, since the Parshendi don't really care about Gender when they aren't in Mate Form.

 

About quote 20, its definitely about one of the Heralds. He is refering to himself. Normally, the Heralds are banished to Braize only at the the time of their deaths. But now he is banished to Shadesmar even when he is still living since humanity lost in the Night of Sorrows. His strength has become his weakness since he is unable to die. His journey has ended because he has failed. And the other quote saying He shud pick it up the tower crown and spear, that is somethiromng that hfas already thappened. Kaladin picks up the spear and saves Dalinar the crown the from the plateau known as the tower.

This doesn't exactly make sense. Where did you get Shadesmar from that? And any Knight Radiant could have said that. As for picking up the fallen title, that hasn't happened yet. Dalinar isn't the Crown, (Yet) Elokhar is.

 

10 and 32 quotes are related as well as the one about a person crying when he witnessed his city fall into dust and also the one about the stones reaching the heavens. All of them represent the application of the same sound based weapon or vibration based weapon used in the destruction of the Dawncities during Aharietiam. It represents a massive power strong enough to push the stones towards the heavens. Also, I suggest adding the Diagram and the predictions of the nightforms to this topic for a more comprehensive analysis of the future.

10 and 32 don't seem related at all. In one, they break the land, but in the other, they settle in it. 32 and 4 (The crying man) could be related. That makes sense.

 

 

The title of chapter 62, where Kaladin's in jail, is titled "The One Who Killed Promises". Similarly, the one where Kaladin and Shallan return with a gemheart is titled "True Glory". This is pretty strong evidence that that Death Rattle refers to Kaladin, Moash, and Elhokar.

Moogle's probably right about this. There is some Lee-way, but this just fits too well.

 

 

I have a theory for - Once three of sixteen ruled but now the broken one rules. Who do we know that is broken? Adonalsium!! Now we know that the 17th shard's one leader seems to consider Adonalsium god judging from his letters to Hoid. We also know some of the secret societies know about Adonalsium from WoB. What im suggesting is that due to the interference of some or all of these groups, an imperfect Adonalsium is ressurected which only contains Honor, Odium and cultivation. Also an awesome alternate theory about the sun setting or the Night of Sorrows, Odium transforms the sun into a red dwarf. Red dwarfs have about 1/10000 luminosity of the sun and are usually not visible to the naked eye. (Source - Wikipedia) Also red dwarfs can have habitable planets near them. ( Source - http://sen.com/news/habitable-planets-common-around-red-dwarf-stars). Since a red dwarf is relatively a cooler star, Roshar would be cold almost freezing.

Sorry, Odium Is known to have shattered Honor, and he wouldn't have picked up the remnants of it.

 

 

 

AUTARCHK (MARCH 2013)

If I can ask a question, I just read the Mistborn trilogy and, were Preservation and Ruin two different shards or a single one with their power split somehow? If they were two shards, does that mean a single person can hold more than one, since Harmony apparently holds both now?

BRANDON SANDERSON

They were two shards.

Yes, one entity can hold more than one. Remember that holding a shard changes you, over time. Rayse knows this, and prefers to leave behind destroyed rivals as opposed to taking their power and potentially being overwhelmed by it.

(Source)

 

Anaylysis of Rattles 12 - 22

 

#12

This is actually odd. 3 of 16 implies Shards of Adonalsium, but this implies that Honour, Cultivation and Odium ruled Together. This can't be the case. Odium is probably the Broken One though. So they are the three.

 

#13

"the body of a brother" Probably not Biological Brother. A Brother-at-Arms, or a Comrade. 

"His blood or mine?" Battle of some sort. Shock. He helped bring down the brother, however indirectly.

 

#14

I'm worried that this is Elokhar's death, and Dalinar or Adolin becoming the king. Or maybe Dalinar's death, and Adolin becoming HighPrince. Fallen title could refer to leader of the Raidants though.

 

#15

Pretty clearly Taln or Faux-Taln giving up.

 

#16.

Again Pretty clearly Shalash.

 

#17

Can't remember who, but somebody has a Theory that Roshar will run out of Stormlight. It's a pretty good theory, I'm betting that's what this refers too. The Specific He, rather than They, signifies one person winning. The Listeners don't group all of Humanity under one man, but the Knights radiant are starting to consider the Listeners to be simply pawns of Odium. So Listener victory.

 

#18

I have no idea where to go with this. There aren't any children in the story right now, nor are any expected. 

 

#19

Lets assume this is a Genuine Death Rattle. A character is killed in the presence of the unmade. I'm leaning towards Ritual Sacrifice needed to release the Unmade who are currently in bondage.

 

#20

A Knight Radiant or Herald giving up. Possibly joining the other team in a bid to survive.

 

#21

Most Likely Kaladin

 

#22

Not enough Info. Probably Eshonai at this point.

 

23 to the end tomorrow.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm... I can't help but disagree to some of these (though I added them). First off, while the word "men" can be used to denote either sex (eg. "What is the measure of a man when he is gone?"), "brother" is gender-specific (though I suppose that's only in the literal sense).

It's just something that occurred to me: would the person speaking the death rattle simply assume that anyone in a combat situation, taking up arms automatically warrants the male pronouns/descriptions? I'm especially thinking with regard to the suggestion of the two men emerging from the pit, though we could of course just read it as a function of the collective reference.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clarification: In my earlier post about the death rattle - the death is my life etc, i meant the Herald is banished to Braize, not Shadesmar. Typing error. Then about rattles no 10& 32, they r related because u r seeing the same event from opposite sides. The humans r fleeing, the Parshendi occupying. Again re my post about resurrection of imperfect Adonalsium, nowhere did I say that Odium agrees to this process. That shud clarify ur doubts Ookla the Stupendous. For further clarification, all we know from WoB is that Adonalsium was shattered. Who or Why, no idea. So unless Adonalsium committed suicide, he was shattered by someone else. Someone who did not possess the power of a Shard. Logically that means there r other means of shattering. Perhaps some other force is the answer but I doubt that since we have seen no evidence of a non Shard based force or power. So I believe some item with the power to kill Shards exist. The author of the letter makes reference to a dead gem, something related to this, perhaps. Also Hoid keeps looking for items all over the Cosmere - Lerasium from Scadrial, Moon Sceptre from Nalthis. He also suggests that there is a greater perpose than saving Roshar. If a powerful Adonalsium killing weapon can be created from Lerasium, the Moon Sceptre and by reviving the dead gem, that could be an answer. This is just a hypothesis. Interestingly a gem with black light was given to Szeth by Gavilar - any relation to my dead gem-sceptre-lerasium-shard killing weapon hypothesis?

Edited by Sasukerinnegan
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's just something that occurred to me: would the person speaking the death rattle simply assume that anyone in a combat situation, taking up arms automatically warrants the male pronouns/descriptions?

 

Yeah, I've thought about this sort of thing a lot. The bottom line is that we have to assume for the sake of argument, that the mediums are giving accurate descriptions of what they see. If they made mistakes, there would be no point in even discussing death rattles

 

By the way, what's the backstory behind all the people named Ookla? I've been wondering... 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I've thought about this sort of thing a lot. The bottom line is that we have to assume for the sake of argument, that the mediums are giving accurate descriptions of what they see. If they made mistakes, there would be no point in even discussing death rattles

 

By the way, what's the backstory behind all the people named Ookla? I've been wondering...

I would disagree. It's a leap of logic to assume that just because there can be culturally/linguistically-driven mistakes about the death rattles implies that there would be no point about dicussing death rattles. The latter requires the claim that the death rattles are utterly mistaken. My point only requires that parts of the death rattles be subject to error, for the reasons previously mentioned. My point is therefore not a standalone; it simply helps us make sense of how that death rattle could be about Shallan and Kaladin. To therefore suggest that to allow for error is to abandon all discussion is clearly disingenuous.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's Peter's birthday Week. when he first joined, before he was Brandon's Assistant, He was named Ookla the, something or other. So we all celebrate by changing our names to Ookla the Something else.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The big issue with analyzing the long-term death rattles (like #35) right now is that we don't quite know where they apply.

 

Stormlight Archive is going to be split into two arcs, so it's possible that all of these death rattles only apply to the current 5-book arc.

 

There are a couple of possibilities.  In the first one, Odium is going to "win" and plunge Roshar into darkness, but the new Radiants will fight back in the second arc and incapacitate him.

 

In the other one, the new Radiants repel the current attack, but have to surrender Roshar to bind Odium and protect the rest of the Cosmere.

 

I'm leaning to the first scenario myself, but the second one could be possible.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So my theory is that #17 refers to the defeatism/depression/whatever of the Stormfather, as reflected in his conversation with Dalinar at the end of WoR.

 

Light grows so distant.

- here light is a metaphor for hope.

 

 

 

The storm never stops.

- could refer to the Everstorm, or the interactions of highstorms with the everstorm

 

 

 

I am broken, and all around me have died.

- yep, that's true of spren

 

 

 

I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us.

- At the end of book 2, this sums up what the Stormfather says.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for #18:

 

- Much as Tavanast's words in the final chapters of book 1 imply that Dalinar should seek to coerce Odium into some form of supernaturally binding contract involving a champion, I expect that Odium will attempt to entice some of the Radiants into committing a clearly dishonorable, unconscionable act in some form of hostage situation.

 

Basically, Kaladin or someone else will be told by Odium "I'll give your humans 1000 more years if you kill this child in cold blood."

 

It's a variant of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IfYoureSoEvilEatThisKitten where the clear 'right' choice from pragmatic morality is to eat the kitten, but where doing so will allow Odium a much more complete victory later on.

 

 

 

27 - I think this refers to the chanting that summoned the Everstorm. POV any soldier or hanger-on of the Dalinar-led forces there.

 

 

30 - I strongly believe this is Kaladin saving Elhokar.

 

All is withdrawn for me.

- Withdrawn - he's suffering extreme depression at the time, and Syl has withdrawn her powers.

I stand against the one who saved my life.

- Moash

I protect the one who killed my promises.

- Elhokar fits this fairly well.

I raise my hand. The storm responds

- "Raise my hand" is a metaphor for 'act decisively'. He acts decisively, and 'the storm' - his Stormlight powers - respond.

 

 

 

34 - I strongly suspect that this is a precursor to Stormlight running low on Roshar. However, it could refer to a *large* number of Larkins appearing somewhere. Also, it's not clear whether "Stormfather" is used as a curse by someone fighting for Honor, or as a reference to the actual Stormfather by someone fighting against him.

 

 

 

35 - If my interpretation of 18 is right, this is saying "Because Kaladin (or someone else loyal to Honor/Tavanast) didn't 'eat the kitten', a deal with Odium is rejected and an opportunity to contain Odium is passed up."

Edited by Andrew C
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my interpretations-

 

Post- #2- I think this could be a reference to the mountain springs of the Horneaters- aka the Shardpool. It’s a mountain spring very very close to ice, very important realmantically speaking (especially now that we know that they’re important for worldhopping). But how is that shardpool a connection to the love of men? That’s something for more thought

 

9 I’m with McDee. I would believe that if Odium’s behind the Parshendi, he’d be the one shaping their songs- a Black Piper. And Pashendi songs are songs no man can hear.

 

11- I’m for one of two things- one is that the 10 orders of the Knight Radiants in an ultimate final battle as you mentioned against Parshendi (thus the black, red, and orange). Or possibly the Heralds, finally reunited against the evil after deciding to PULL THEMSELVES TOGETHER. Man, Roshar’s about to go to pieces and they’re going to let it do it. Side note- why didn’t they stop the Recreance? Why didn’t they stop the betrayl of the Knight Radiants?

 

13- So even though brother isn’t metaphorical, perhaps the Blood is. Maybe Dalinar. Perhaps he (as he’s already done) regrets the things that have happened as the Blackthrone- the blood on their hands as they’ve recreated the kingdom. And whose fault is it? The politician? Or the General? Who holds the guilt for battle? Is it upon the head of every soldier who dies in battle? On their general for the specific plans he makes? Or the politician that determines the fight? That's the question and the debate he's asking himself.  

 

14- I’m with Ookla of the Corn. I think it’s talking about Kaladin. He’s supposed to pick up the fallen title of Winidrunner. The crown and tower he lifts up by lifting up his spear and fighting in the end of WoK.

30- I’m with Ookla the infinite. That seems a very specific chapter name. I'm for it being about Kaladin choosing to protect the breaker of promises.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.