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Skantre

Hemalurgic-transference technology

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To be very honest, at the first moments I encountered with hemalurgy in the mistborn trilogy I didn't really like it, basically due to its gruesome nature, its inefficiency, and its primitiveness.

 

To me, there are 3 main problems with hemalurgy:

  1. Law of Hemalurgic Decay (Look it up if you have no idea what it is)
  2. Contact with moving blood (Killing most ex-Allomancers/Feruchemists while it is not really necessary)
  3. Large, clunky spikes that not only changes one's physiology, but also created a weakness that is lethal to receivers of hemalurgic spikes

These are the reasons why I think that the first generation of hemalurgy very inefficient, and made me thinking.

 

Could we use needles instead of spikes?

Feruchemy actually needs bigger pieces of metal to store more investiture; however, I do not think that it's the case for hemalurgy. The spike only contains a fragment of stolen Spiritweb, and is ripped out and embedded in the recipient, thus stapling the ability directly into their sDNA(from coppermind wiki). In fact, Spook only had the tip of a broken sword, but still works perfectly. It (kinda) proves that all it takes is a piece of metal of that kind.

Furthermore, with better forging(the metal-shaping skill in real life not the one on Sel) or even nano-tech, we can totally make needle so thin and so small that when it passes through the giver of alomancy it won't do much harm; and as it will pierce through the body, we can just aim for a micro-vein, and fulfil the moving-blood requirement.

At this stage, problem 2 is solved.(I know it solves problem 3 as well but I will discuss it in the following paragraphs.)

 

Remember problem 1? I want 99.9999999999999999999% of original power kept, so we have to do it fast.

How? Isn't it apparent? Iron/Steel+ Duralumin. Or Nicrosil, if all our mistborns are gone, which is sad.

However, it's kinda imprecise. And hemalurgy requires certain precision. I want almost all of investiture and put in the best position of spiritual web and gives out the best outcome.

So we can use kinda needle gun propelled by air or magnetism, but that's not what I have in mind.

We can have a kind of double deck "bed" which is actually a hemalurgic-transference operation device. The giver lay on the upper deck, the recipient lay on the lower deck. At the top, we have a needle ejection unit that is powerful yet precise in power, that it is strong enough to pierce through the giver but weak enough to stay within the recipient, and will adjust with different givers' and recipients' body thickness and density. Then, at the side, some sort of scan that shows the exact position of organs(hearts, ribs, which are crucial for hemalurgy) and veins that it should pass through to cause minimal effect, which I'm sure we probably have that now in our real world(OR A SHARDLESS WORLD LOL). Basically, that's that. Maybe with some computer to adjust and monitor things, but doesn't make much of a difference.

Problem 1: Solved

Problem 2: Solved

Problem 3: Solved (As the "spikes" now are small and deep within one's body, it shouldn't alter much of one's physiology, and it would be harder to extract them.

 

I suppose now you guys are drooling for this.

 

Hell, the whole process is so fast and efficient, it might just be like taking a flu shot. And poor allomancers who can't afford much metal to burn can just sell their allomancy to richer ones.

 

"Sir, please lay here" the nurse said "And sir, please lay here"

*The two of them lay on separate vertical decks

"Sir, you are giver your Pewter Allomancy to the gentleman below, correct?"

"Yes ma'am"

"And you are receiving Pewter Allomancy?"

"Yep, please shoot"

"Now please lay on the decks calmly and have minimal movements."

[Psssst]

"Alright, the procedure is done." the nurse re-enters the room.

"Give me some pewter"

"Oh I still have a vial, take it"

"Thanks" [gulps] "Ohhhh it feels awesome"

"Just keep check on your reserve"

"Thanks again..."

[The recipient holds a dented door-knob he tears out from the door]

"Opps." He turns to the giver "I'll wire the remaining payments to your account tomorrow"

"It's a pleasure doing business with you"

"Likewise"

 

Like that.

 

Hemalurgy extra:

Remember that needle gun? Or pushing the needles with duralumin? It would be a non lethal way to take away someone's allomancy during a fight, or as a punishment.

Just sayin'

 

P.S. I'm not 100% sure about using the word investiture, cause you know guys, its definition is still quite vague, but I apologize in advance if I cause any confusion. Just infer the meaning by yourselves.

 

P.P.S. And let's hope that Harmony won't be a dick and storm with those people

Edited by jclt
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The amount of metal does matter to a certain extent, but even aside from that the problem here is one of accuracy, using a thicker spike means that the amount of precision means less, since the spike is so thick even if the point is a half centimetre or so off it will still spike the bind point. If your needle is on a nanoscopic scale the odds of precisely hitting the bind point are minuscule, with conscious living subjects who will still undergo small movements and involuntary twitches it would be nearly impossible even with mechanical aid for precision.

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There is still one problem with your method. Even with needles that are small enough to pierce the heart or other vital organs without causing harm ripping out a part of the soul is still far from harmless for the donor, although I´m not sure how harmful/lethal it would be exactly and as Vidus pointed out, a needle that small could barely hold any Investure.

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The body will see the metal as foreign and will try to dissolve and get rid of it. If its small enough, the body might just break it down and you could get pieces of metal into the bloodstream and get metal poisoning.

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To Voidus and Ookla,

I do not think that the metal size have much effect towards the potency of hemalurgy.

Remember Vin? She only as a metal pin as her earring/hemalurgic spike, but her Bronze seeking is already TWICE as powerful than normal seekers.

And Spook, as I had already mentioned in the original post, only has a small tip of a sword but still granted him pewter strength.

I think that hemalurgy is invented in such fashion, that even a small piece of metal can perform the full scope of hemalurgy once all requirements are fulfilled, as a plot device so that Ruin can have access to somebody's mind in the most unexpect circumstances.

 

And in regarding accuracy, the point of having a machine performing the procedure is about being VERY ACCURACTE.

 

And to Ookla in concerning the givers' soul, it is true that the exact damage is unclear, and it's a legit concern that I have overlooked. Thanks for pointing out.

 

To Incheoul,

Well, that might happen, or invested metals don't perform the way normal metal does, or with our advanced chemistry we can come up with insoluble yet enables hemalurgy.

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In regards to my previous post, I wasn't really talking about how metal or invested metal may work but rather how the human body works in real life. Of course invested metal and anything involving magic can change the rules so to speak. Assuming their bodies work like ours, they will over time degrade any metal in them trying to rid the body of anything foreign.

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To Voidus and Ookla,

I do not think that the metal size have much effect towards the potency of hemalurgy.

Remember Vin? She only as a metal pin as her earring/hemalurgic spike, but her Bronze seeking is already TWICE as powerful than normal seekers.

And Spook, as I had already mentioned in the original post, only has a small tip of a sword but still granted him pewter strength.

I think that hemalurgy is invented in such fashion, that even a small piece of metal can perform the full scope of hemalurgy once all requirements are fulfilled, as a plot device so that Ruin can have access to somebody's mind in the most unexpect circumstances.

 

And in regarding accuracy, the point of having a machine performing the procedure is about being VERY ACCURACTE.

 

And to Ookla in concerning the givers' soul, it is true that the exact damage is unclear, and it's a legit concern that I have overlooked. Thanks for pointing out.

 

To Incheoul,

Well, that might happen, or invested metals don't perform the way normal metal does, or with our advanced chemistry we can come up with insoluble yet enables hemalurgy.

Vin's seeking is definitely not twice as powerful as normal, noticeably stronger perhaps but not double. Yes Vins earing and Spooks spike are quite small but you're talking about a whole different scale here, the Investiture removed by Hemalurgy is not huge and so they don't need a lot of metal to store that investiture but they will still need some space.

Machines can only be so accurate though, especially when they're working with a person who's still conscious, and then into the second person, one slight movement in either the donor or donee and the spike would be off, even just breathing would throw it off significantly.

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Vin's seeking is definitely not twice as powerful as normal, noticeably stronger perhaps but not double. Yes Vins earing and Spooks spike are quite small but you're talking about a whole different scale here, the Investiture removed by Hemalurgy is not huge and so they don't need a lot of metal to store that investiture but they will still need some space.

Machines can only be so accurate though, especially when they're working with a person who's still conscious, and then into the second person, one slight movement in either the donor or donee and the spike would be off, even just breathing would throw it off significantly.

It might also be of note that while not on Lerasium Mistborn level her inherent Allomancy is stronger than that of the average Allomancer of the time.

 

Talking about size, would a needle this small even withstand the force created in shooting it this fast or would it just shatter?

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This idea is all about technology combining with magic, guys, think further.

Yet, I understand your skepticism, because I wasn't exactly clear about the technology level this procedure is meant to exist. I presume this to be base on 22nd-23rd century technology, in relating to our current technological advancements.

Look, regarding the solubility of metal spike in micro sizes, I believe that with real world technology we can come up with new materials that has the same molecular structure (which is crucial to any metallic arts I believe), like nano-tech. Like diamond, consisting purely of carbon, yet due to its structure making it extremely resilient. In fact, our scientists are already starting to do thinks like this.

And in regarding accuracy, the machine will shoot the needles so fast that even if we breath normally it doesn't matter, because relatively we are just too slow to make a difference. And you might ask how can the needle stay in the recipients' body in such velocity. Well, magnetism, iron pull, you name it.

And needle will remain intact as long as we shoot it fast and straight. It's just physics.

These technology might not exists in our world yet, but it is reasonable to believe that we can very soon achieve them. It is not hard to believe that Scardrial can obtain the same or even more advanced tech level, considering the fact that they manage FTL travel.

 

And in regarding whether the size of spikes will affect the potency of hemalurgy, I decide not to continue arguing. The truth is, this specific art is in fact still quite mysterious. However, according to coppermind wiki (which I deem as an reliable source of information), it says that Vin has twofold of normal Bronze seeking due to hemalurgy. And that's my evidence, and it's reasonable enough to infer that size doesn't matter in hemalurgy.

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If you changed the molecular structure to make it more resilient to natural decay in the human body, it wouldn't even be the same thing anymore which would most likely interfere with the metallic art. To make a super tiny hemalurgic spike work, there would have to be "magic" involved to break the rules beyond that which it already breaks.

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With the widths you're talking about it would be nearly impossible to make it strong enough to resist.

Magnets wouldn't work since not all the allomantic metals are magnetic, Ironpulling wouldn't work because they're piercing a body making them nigh impossible to influence.

 

And in regarding whether the size of spikes will affect the potency of hemalurgy, I decide not to continue arguing. The truth is, this specific art is in fact still quite mysterious. However, according to coppermind wiki (which I deem as an reliable source of information), it says that Vin has twofold of normal Bronze seeking due to hemalurgy. And that's my evidence, and it's reasonable enough to infer that size doesn't matter in hemalurgy.

That's an approximation, she has 'double' in the sense that she has been given it twice, once naturally through being a mistborn and a second time through Hemalurgy. However that doesn't make her twice as strong as other Seekers
As I said it's just a matter of the density of the Investiture, compared to Feruchemy Hemalurgy doesn't take that much Investiture, so the size matters less than for a metalmind but it still matters, I'm pretty sure there's actually a WoB about it somewhere but I can't find it.
EDIT: It was in the 42nd Epigraph-
 

 

 

A spike can only hold so much of a Hemalurgic charge, so they could not create spikes that granted infinite strength, no matter how many people those spikes killed and drew power from.


Something else to consider, altering the molecular structure of the metals would render them useless from our current understandings, the molecular structure is what creates the gateway.

Edited by Voidus
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Thx Voidus that actually clears up a lot.

Though one question: what is the definition of "charge" in that quote means?

Coz it could be interperated as we cannot use one spike to poke so many person to supercharge a hemalurgic spike, because it can only contain the charge/investiture of one person,

or it can only contain a certain amount of charge/investiture.

The former one will allow the technology to be more feasible, while the latter one do the opposite. Either ways, I'm much more interested in how hemalurgy actually works.

 

How to put a needle in someone and make it stay despite of its velocity requires real math perform by experts, which is out of my depth. But in technology I trust.

 

Rest assured, I am well aware of the importance of "molecular structure" among the metallic arts. Despite that such importance is only specifically described in Allomancy, I also think that it extends to the rest of two.

The idea I'm talking about is nothing novel as a matter of fact. According to my not-too-pro-but-sufficient knowledge in mordern chemistry and nano-technology, on top of the arrangement of, let's say iron and carbon, which makes alloys or metals allomacy-feasible, in our case steel, we can further arrange that arrangement into certain struture that is extra strong or extra dense. It is something that our scientists are exploring. I am not sure that my understanding fits 100% to the actual technology, but to my knowledge it works for us, and if it does it is something bound to happen. For further information please visit the link I provided in the previous post.

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I wonder if the metallic arts are treated like a science down on Southern Scadrial. Maybe they're more common somehow but they're treated like a lot of drugs are treated in the real world.

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The machine accuracy issue could be easily involved with the use of general anesthetic and muscle relaxers like they administer before complicated surgery. 

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