2012-06-25 - TheSadDragon - Blade and Shadow [V]

[TheSadDragon]

Hello all,

Here is the feedback thread for Blade and Shadow.

Blade and Shadow is a short proof of concept were we get to follow Aethor, a high ranking Runeblade in the kings employ.

As the whole story is about 2.5k words and is meant to be a stand alone I cant really go into much more detail without going into spoilers.

The the story contains mild-violence, nothing graphical or detailed.

Looking forward to your feedback!

Best Regards,

TheSadDragon

[Guenhywvar]

OK, I thoroughly enjoyed reading the submission, it was engaging and had very interesting concepts.

I know you say that English isn't your first language, and I'm afraid to say that this did show... You constantly use "though" instead of "thought" (I know this could be a mistype, or that it is auto-corrected to this form something else, but it still stood out), and some of the grammatical syntax was off -

Writing, as court politics, was something Aethor avoided whenever possible.

This should read "as with politics," - just a little note...

But also, something that I've seen quite frequently throughout your work, (and I know it's one of the first drafts, and I know my grammar isn't perfect in my drafts either, but you will often right something like this:

It was not in these ways that he served his king so he didn't have the inclination to nurture the skills.

There should be a comma after king as they are two separate clauses.

In the speech, you have treated it as a mix between a speech tag and an action tag weirdly, as you end the first set of speech with a full stop (like an action tag) but then you start what would be the action with an uncapitalised letter (speech tag property), and put a full-stop at the end like you would for an action tag, and then start the next speech mark with a capital letter, as if he had just done an action.

However, this is assuming it is one bit of thought, as it certainly reads as one. If it is indeed an action, and he is saying it out-loud rather than thinking it, and then he thinks in the middle, then you should capitalise the "he". This, if you look at the example below, however, does not flow.

“Find something we can use.” he though. “Right now I can barely make out where the attack is coming from before it's too late.”

This should read: "Find something we can use," he thought, "right now..."

Or: "Find something we can use." He thought. "Right now..." - However, this would imply that a) he had time to think in the middle of a battle, and it doesn't flow..

- And that's the last I'll say about grammar, as I know unless you want it, it can become very tiresome. (Sorry about how much there was)

The opening line was a little bit of a mouthful, try breaking it up possibly? Also, I wasn't 100% sure what you were trying to say, where you trying to say that he was looking at the letter in the dim light of the candle, or that he looked at the letter, and then looked at the dim light of the candle? It is the second one that comes across in the writing, however, I think it's the former that you mean to get across, would I be right in thinking that?

Possibly if you changed it to:

Aethor sat, looking intently at the unfinished letter on his writing desk, illuminated only by the meager light from the chamber's lone night candle.

- Even this doesn't read perfectly, I know, although it gives a clearer idea to the reader of what you're trying to say if it is indeed the former.

“Your right, Ethranel!” Ainir called.

Just a note, it took me several readings to get what you meant by this, I assumed that the sword meant that Ethranel was correct in his trail of thought, however, this didn't make sense. I had to read it several times to understand that the sword meant that the assassin was to his right - maybe you could make this a little clearer? (Or maybe I'm just slow haha, always a possibility haha)

Another note, on the top third of page 4, you capitalise "Artefact", and then later you say "artifical" instead (no capital) - Although, is it meant to be a capital on both? (I'm assuming that was a nice old spell check...)

Also, at the bottom bit of page 4, you have him think in italics, whereas you use speech marks for the rest of the thoughts. Is he not communicating through this one, because it certainly seems as if he should.

He could feel the extra resistance of the blade as it cut into the man's chest.

Stumbling back the assassin suddenly seemed to recover from the wound. A moment later a faint smell of burnt flesh spread across the room. Runemagic. Even though Aethor couldn't see it, he knew that the wound that he had just made would no longer be there – the protective rune absorbing the blow instead of the man's flesh.

This seems to contradict itself... You're saying that he could feel the resistance as it cut through the chest, and then saying that the rune absorbed the blow instead of him, even though he knows that the wound he made is no longer there, suggesting that it had previously. To me, at least, that sounds off. Is this rune just healing him? Or is it taking the blow for him? If the latter is the case, why does it smell of burning flesh? I think it is the former, and so i would advise rewording the last sentence so that it doesn't contradict itself in the same way (again, this could just be me...)

What are you trying to say here?

Aethor was impressed for while he had known that the daggers were coming he had almost missed when the black-clad man had produced them.

For this confuses me- who had missed? From the sentence is suggests that Aethor had missed when he tried to throw some knives, and yet the knives are flying towards him...? Did he miss with the sword? In that case, make it a little clearer this is what he's doing, because as I've said, this implies that he has missed with his own knives...

Again, two lines down "When had he thrown his dagger" the "he" is still referring to Aethor at this moment in time.

Something I haven't brought up yet, but am curious about, why does the sword refer to Aethor as "Ethranel"? Is this a trait, that all Runeblades have a separate name that they're referred to by their sword? Is it just him? Sorry, I'm just a little curious...

Overall, I found the concepts extremely interesting, and the book engaging, and would love to read more of it in the future (sorry once again about the grammar, if, in future, you wish for me not to comment on it, then go ahead and tell me (: )

[TheSadDragon]

Hello all,

Just wanted to quickly adress something Guenhywvar said above -- grammer feedback.

While I dont want to bring the focus too grammer mistakes i very much appreciate getting feedback on my grammer.

As Guenhywvar noted above, English is not my native tongue which makes grammer a bit of a trouble area for me as I have a hard time catching mistakes.

That said, grammer can always be fixed. Content trouble on the other hand can be a much bigger issues in terms of the time it takes to make things right.

I will answer questions though I'll wait until the weekend to give everyone a fair chance to give feedback on the text first -- as well as posting their own question, if they have any.

Thanks for the feedback and looking forward to reading some more

-TSD

[Jack the Halls]

Interesting use of candles. I have a few questions right off the bat. Would candles be far more valuable in this world? How rare is candle wax? Does the wax need to be a special wax? If they are rare, does it make sense that he would "waste" one to sleep if he didn't need it?

First sleep? Makes me wonder about their society, which his good.

I think the entire story could have played smoother. For instance. Why do we have almost a full page of him thinking about the plot, when we could just see the letter he is writing? Show vs. Tell and all that, even though the letter is a bit of a cheat. Still you can accomplish in a couple lines what it took a page to put in train of thought. "Dear King, I believe there is a plot to kill you... Yours Truly..." Then you can jump into the assassination attempt and end quickly with him either going back to the letter or thinking he doesn't need it now because he has proof.

As for the assassination attempt. It's too long, especially considering the framework of the story. I don't want to come away from a story about a fight scene, which is what this one amounts to. With two professionals like this, I think it would not only be more entertaining but also more more realistic if you showed us two really cool exchanges and then ended it abruptly, like an assassination attempt would actually play out. Right now, it reads sort of like the description of a fight sequence from a Final Fantasy cut-scene. Don't get me wrong, that's perfectly fine, and I thought it was the best written part of the piece. But... Hm...

I think it was the most recent Sanderson lecture posted about fight sequences. If you haven't seen it, basically one of the points he makes is that while blow-by-blow is fun in visual media, it doesn't translate quite as well on the page. I think, due to the nature of your descriptive fight sequences, the blow-by-blow is important. But in this story it feels more like a blow-by-blow-by-blow-by-blow-by-blow. Give me two good blows and leave me wanting more.

I knew the last sentence was wrong even as I typed it.

[Jack the Halls]

Oh, also. This story does NOT stand alone. Misleading!

[Mandamon]

I don't want to go into grammar too much, but I do agree with Guenhywvar. There were enough errors that it took me out of the story. Since English isn't your native tongue, it's not your fault (I only speak one language fluently!) but it is something that you will need to pay particular attention to if you are submitting something to an American agent.

The biggest technical things I noticed were apostrophe use, having thoughts in italics, and the structure of your dialogue.

In general, I like the story and your writing. You have a good grasp of putting a scene into words. That said, the fight was a little long, although it was exciting the whole time, for me. Although there were some pretty standard elements (medieval structure, fey guardian, magic sword) you used them well enough that it only added to the story, and the magic and descriptions were easy to follow along with. I could instantly grasp what magical element were being used, even if I don't understand how they work.

I think the only bad part of this was the very beginning. I almost lost interest before finishing the first page, and I think moving the whole part about why the letter is written would be better moved to the end of the chapter. Maybe start with the third paragraph? The action in that one was the first part that sucked me in.

First sleep? Makes me wonder about their society, which his good.

This reminded me of a recent Writing Excuses when Mary brought up that people used to not sleep for eight hours at a time and would get up in the middle of the night. I've been contemplating how to work that into a story myself.

Oh, also. This story does NOT stand alone. Misleading!

Very true! I want to read the next chapter!

[Jack the Halls]

I think moving the whole part about why the letter is written would be better moved to the end of the chapter.

I like this idea. You get the action hook, then the explanation for the action right away, which hooks you even more into subsequent chapters.

[cjhuitt]

These cover a lot of my thoughts:

The opening line was a little bit of a mouthful, try breaking it up possibly? Also, I wasn't 100% sure what you were trying to say, where you trying to say that he was looking at the letter in the dim light of the candle, or that he looked at the letter, and then looked at the dim light of the candle?

As for the assassination attempt. It's too long, especially considering the framework of the story. I don't want to come away from a story about a fight scene, which is what this one amounts to. With two professionals like this, I think it would not only be more entertaining but also more more realistic if you showed us two really cool exchanges and then ended it abruptly, like an assassination attempt would actually play out. Right now, it reads sort of like the description of a fight sequence from a Final Fantasy cut-scene. Don't get me wrong, that's perfectly fine, and I thought it was the best written part of the piece. But... Hm...

Oh, also. This story does NOT stand alone. Misleading!

More details:

I think the entire story could have played smoother. For instance. Why do we have almost a full page of him thinking about the plot, when we could just see the letter he is writing? Show vs. Tell and all that, even though the letter is a bit of a cheat. Still you can accomplish in a couple lines what it took a page to put in train of thought. "Dear King, I believe there is a plot to kill you... Yours Truly..." Then you can jump into the assassination attempt and end quickly with him either going back to the letter or thinking he doesn't need it now because he has proof.

I think the only bad part of this was the very beginning. I almost lost interest before finishing the first page, and I think moving the whole part about why the letter is written would be better moved to the end of the chapter. Maybe start with the third paragraph? The action in that one was the first part that sucked me in.

I also thought the first part of the story was the weakest/slowest. In addition, I really thought that it was a setup for a longer novel. In that context, the fight was still a bit long, but not horribly so.

Regarding the information at the beginning, I would suggest trying to take the information about the plotting against the king -- that is, everything about why he was writing the letter and what was in it -- and try to work it in bit by bit during the action. Some of it could be left out entirely, though; the part about him needing to have the letter transcribed was interesting, but doesn't really add to a piece this short.

This seems to contradict itself... You're saying that he could feel the resistance as it cut through the chest, and then saying that the rune absorbed the blow instead of him, even though he knows that the wound he made is no longer there, suggesting that it had previously. To me, at least, that sounds off. Is this rune just healing him? Or is it taking the blow for him? If the latter is the case, why does it smell of burning flesh? I think it is the former, and so i would advise rewording the last sentence so that it doesn't contradict itself in the same way (again, this could just be me...)

[...]

For this confuses me- who had missed? From the sentence is suggests that Aethor had missed when he tried to throw some knives, and yet the knives are flying towards him...?

For what it's worth, I didn't have any confusion about either of these two elements. I thought they read well enough to understand.

Something I haven't brought up yet, but am curious about, why does the sword refer to Aethor as "Ethranel"?

Oh ho. I missed this one, somehow. Interesting. One thought I have is a variation on a common name and a "true" name, and the sword, of course, must know the true name.

Interesting use of candles. I have a few questions right off the bat. Would candles be far more valuable in this world? How rare is candle wax? Does the wax need to be a special wax? If they are rare, does it make sense that he would "waste" one to sleep if he didn't need it?

I actually thought the candle was either a common way of warding spirits, or more likely an old wives' tale about warding spirits, but either way I didn't assume there was anything special about the candle. However, this is a good point that if they were in more demand for use to burn overnight, they would also be more expensive. Beyond that, this would be one way in which the rich would distinguish themselves from the poor -- there would be the commoner's candles, as cheap as they could be made and still work, and there would be the incensed candles of the rich (assuming they could be incensed), or colored, or with bits in it to make the flames turn colors, or what-have-you. It's a good world building idea, and one I may find my way to "borrowing" some day.

I noticed two main things about this other than what was discussed above.

Why a letter? I particularly thought this with the comment that he wasn't good at writing. Why not just go and tell the king? I mean, it sounds like Aethor is a spy, or the local equivalent, but how would sending a letter be any faster than just informing the proper people? This is especially true since he was struggling so hard to write the letter, and felt as if he was under time pressure. Also, at the beginning of the story I had no idea what magic may be possible, so I was assuming the letter would need to be hand-delivered anyway.

At first, this doesn't seem to be a body-blow to your story, just an inconvenience. I mean, he could be waiting in his room figuring out how to approach the king with the information when he is attacked just as easily as writing a letter. On the revelation that Aethor can "step", however, it makes less sense. Why doesn't he just step to where the king is and tell him? I can come up with hand-wavey reasons, perhaps, but anything I've come up with runs into the other problem of how a letter would be any easier.

The storm power ending: If Aethor could summon the storm power so easily, and the assassin was confident of being able to kill Aethor, then he ought to have had a plan for dealing with the storm power. On the other hand, if Aethor felt that he was having problems with the assassin -- he made three different gambles in the fight -- why not call upon the storm power earlier? I would assume that's not something one just forgets about, if you have the ability.

[Yados]

I think Aethor needs to lose.

Everyone does a good job at breaking down the substance of the story, but I think for there to be enough pathos for this story to work as a standalone, he needs to die or otherwise fail.

As a part of a larger work, it's a different matter, but Aethor's motivations are too generic (effective but that's *why* they're generic) for the story to end in his favor. It's too clean.

It's literally like me saying "I want to go to the store because I'm out of milk" and then I do. I buy the milk. End story.

That motivation wasn't enough for the ending to be cathartic in the short space you had. It's enough for it to be effective if everything goes wrong, but for us to really want him to succeed, we need to be put through the wringer more than we currently are.

I have no idea how to fix that with the story as it stands.

[TheSadDragon]

Thanks for all the constructive feedback!

You all really made me feel welcome in the group -- and judging by the feedback, what a group

So about the questions and the story.

I feel like I have a confession to make, and it might be a bit on the long side so bear with me.

This world and universe is something i have been building for some time now, off and on, primarily for the purpose of a Pen and Paper RPG I'm also making. Though thats not true either... The RPG is one part of it but I was also looking to using it as a basis for a few different novels that have been floating round in my head. Though there are a few things I wasn't sure about how they would work in the text only medium -- and that's where Blade and Shadow came into the picture as a proof of concept. To be more precisely it was the abilities of the runblade that I wasn't sure how they would come across. So i wrote this story and had some people familiar with the game system and world read it and also send it in as my first submission here. Thankfully it would seem that it worked, though it could use some tweaking.

I'm sorry i couldn't go in to this earlier but i wanted some honest outside eyes on it to see if it worked or not. Hope you guys don't mind too much >_<;;

Now with that said, let's get to the questions!

First Sleep

This is indeed referring to the theory that Humans used to have segmented sleep before the industrial revolution.

Basically studies and literature suggests that we used to sleep in two ~4 hours segments with a waking period of 1-2 hours in between. There are no real good names for the segments but some sources suggests first and second sleep -- something that makes me think of hobbits for some odd reason ^^;

Night Candles

There are many types of night candles from cheap ones that only last for one sleep period to those who will last a whole week as well as providing soothing incense for its duration. The main function of the candle is cjhutti deduced to ward against malevolent spirits. This is not a wives' tale but a real working method to keep you safe while you sleep. There are other ways of guarding yourself against the fiends lurking in the night, such as runic wards, but the candles are usually the method of choice. This also results in that various materials for making candle wax are used, as well as used wax being recycled when it can be.

Ethranel

This is the W.I.P (Word in progress) used as a title of wielder of a runeblade from the runeblades perspective. It's not something all Runeblades use as the level of formality between blade and wielder varies. The word itself, as the blades, are things from when the world was whole and as such not a thing if ages passed -- 2 ages to be precise, though the blades might be even older. I guess what I'm trying to say is that is in an ancient tongue ^^;

As a final note I'm sad to say that there is currently no continuation planned for this but who knows right

If any other questions pop up feel free to post them here or PM me!

Again, thanks for the awesome feedback you guys have helped a ton!

PS. If anyone can answer the question of why i can seem to get though and thought right when I write stories but only when I'm chatting or otherwise typing along feel free to give me said answer as I'm currently going mad >_<;