Large Investiture Collider

[Gamma Fiend]

So, here on Earth, we have a large machine called the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) that smashes particles together at super high speeds to blow them to bits, find what they're made of, and try and understand the basic building blocks and origins of our Universe.

Could the Cosmere do the same?

Once certain worlds become technologically capable, what would happen if they built their own LHC? But since Investiture is a thing, and the assumed building blocks of the Universe, would they instead decide to somehow distill pure particles of Investiture, and try smashing those together? What would be the results?

Can we even assume that the Conservation of Energy, and the laws of E = MC² are applicable in the Cosmere? Would their laws of Physics be the same on that level?

 

Thoughts?

[Wyrmhero]

Can we even assume that the Conservation of Energy, and the laws of E = MC² are applicable in the Cosmere? Would their laws of Physics be the same on that level?

 

The best thing to do would be to assume that the laws of physics are all the same to start with, and that Investiture stuff is put on top of that. There's no reason to assume otherwise, as we haven't found any evidence for the laws of physics being different elsewhere in our universe either. It makes sense that to get a 'working' universe, we need those laws. So let's assume the same thing there. Now, the issue comes from when we start to use Investiture to drive physical changes. Like any system of magic, a magical source is similar to energy, and is basically the same.

 

Is Investiture conserved though? Well, we know it can be 'destroyed' through interactions with Nightblood and Hemalurgy. That could be considered converting it to energy. But at the same time, it could just be returning to the source. Then there's the curious interactions with Allomancy, and the 'waterwheel' style of how the Allomancy is not used up but just returns to Preservation and then comes back to the user. I don't think we know enough about it yet to think about it like that.

 

However, the nature of it, and whether it is indeed a catalyst or a resource, does imply interesting things. Could you use it to easily generate a functionally infinite amount of energy? Or even an infinite amount? Well, perhaps. We have no indication that Awakened objects slowly die off, for instance, using up their Investiture. They could even be used to power our LSC (I choose to collide Spren), making it a lot easier to look at the tiniest things in the universe.

 

Basically, not sure we know enough about how the Cosmere works yet to tell exactly how things would work with that. Or even if there's a quanta of Investiture. Who knows, perhaps in a world with Cognitive/Spiritual aspects, just smashing hadrons together might hint towards that sort of world. Of course, people would smash Investiture together anyway, because what else are physicists meant to do? >>

Edited November 17, 2014 by Wyrmhero

[Kurkistan]

...But since Investiture is a thing, and the assumed building blocks of the Universe...

Source:

Awesomeness Summoned

What is the Realmatic composition of Investiture?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Investure is intended to be the building blocks of the cosmere so I would say for the most part it transcends the different realms. Probably more of the Spiritual if anything but more accurately it transcends them.

 

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Can we even assume that the Conservation of Energy, and the laws of E = MC² are applicable in the Cosmere? Would their laws of Physics be the same on that level?

[...]

 

Source:

VIPER

Hah. So in Cosmere, does physics work the same way in the physical realm as it does in our world? Specifically, particle physics; and are atoms made up of protons and neutrons and electrons, and is light photons, etc?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

 

VIPER

So what's at the core of an atom of Atium? Ate-teum? Also how do you pronounce it? At-teum?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. And the matter is just normal matter, but it's wrapped in the spiritual. The Spiritual DNA [or something] is what makes it magical.

 

VIPER

(Note: he might've said slightly more about this but I didn't write it down and I don't remember. Sorry for not bringing a tape recorder :(/> )

 

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KURKISTAN

Are the laws of physics in the cosmere Spiritually based?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

They... The laws of physics in the cosmere are ours except where they have been changed by Spiritual influence. So I guess you could say "yes."

 

EDIT:

 

Source:

QUESTION

Does Iron store mass or weight?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Excellent question. The thing is it really does involve mass, but I’m breaking some physics rules, basically. I have to break a number of physics rules in order to make Magic work in the first place. Those whole laws of Thermodynamics, I’m like “You are my bane!” (laughter) But I try to work within the framework, and I have reasonings built up for myself, and some of them have to be kind of arbitrary. But the thing is, it does store mass if you look at how it interacts, but when a Feruchemist punches someone, you’re not having a mass transference of a 1000 pounds transferring the mass into someone else.

 

So there are a few little tweaks. You can go talk to Peter, because Peter has the actual math. Oh Peter’s back there. Peter is dressed up as Allomancer Jak from the broadsheet. In fact we’re giving some out broadsheets, aren’t we Peter. So when you come through the line, we’re giving out Broadsheets. Please don’t take fifty—I think we might have enough for everybody. The broadsheets are the newspaper from the Alloy of Law time. It’s an inworld newspaper. It’s actually reproduced in the book in four different pages, and we put it together in one big broadsheet.

 

So anyway, you can talk with him, he’s got more of the math of it. I explained the concept to Peter and he’s better with the actual math, so he said “We’ll figure it out.”

Edited November 17, 2014 by Kurkistan

[king of nowhere]

one problem with it is that there is no real way to accelerate investiture and smash it into its components. to overcome this obstacle, the cosmere scientists decided to insted accelerate the most invested item they could find in the cosmere. thus enters the cosmere LHC: a vacuum rail in which they are trying to accelerate Hoid to close to the speed of light and then smash him against a wall to see what comes out of it (you guess what LHC is for). That would also allow an answer to the question of how effective hoid's immortality is.

unfortunately, the main recipient of the experiment refused to volunteer, keeping the cosmere in darkness and obscurantism.

[Shaggai]

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Whoa, wait, it's Spiritual interactions which alter physics? I mean, I guess the laws of physics would be similar to Ideals, but this is interesting. Argh, now I want to make a big post musing about the mechanics of the Spiritual realm but I can't because I did a different one earlier.

[Kurkistan]

Yeah, the theory of physics-as-Spiritual has been floating around for quite some time, but it really doesn't come up much in conversation. I'm honestly unsure if I was its originator.

 

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You could just look at my big post instead.

 

P.S. Wow that's a tad out of date. Also a bit assertoric. And it's sorely lacking in generalizations, leaving too much stuck to the individual objects rather than abstracting out to Forms and the like. I also kind of got the "beads in the hair" wrong, since Shallan does apparently transition into Shadesmar; the body here being much more bolted onto the mind than I'd assumed.

 

P.P.S. Still not too bad, though, if I do say so myself. Especially since it was written at a time when I could honestly say that we knew more about the Spiritual than the Cognitive (remember: pre-TES).

Edited November 20, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Gamma Fiend]

So, would a normal LHC be capable of smashing apart those chunks of sDNA from magical objects, like Aitum or some Invested object? Would that then be pure Investiture, or would it be too unstable and dissipate or whatever, like all of those other sub-atomic particles? (Since that's the level they'd have to be working at for a Particle Accelerator).

But as we know in Fantasy, Bigger is Better, right? We might need to see how Southern Scadrial Magic-Tech works, and probably more along the lines of Sci-Fi cosmere, when they get FTL, but they should have the means to create some sort of Investiture-Enhanced Accelerator to be able to smash larger, and more Invested objects.

And then of course there could be the conspiracy theorists protesting the machine's launch, citing it will cause another rift in the Cosmere, and shattering of the Shards or whatever.