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When all of you are discussing "Bondspren" do you mean the Nahel spren or bindspren (the ones that show up when Kaldin Full Lashes something)?  Because the latter should definitely be considered as natural forces-type spren.  They are attracted to the use of the Adhesion Surge, which is considered by the Rosharans to be one of the fundamental forces.

Given that Honorspren and Cryptics were namedropped, I´m pretty confident the conversation is about Nahel Spren.

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Unfortunately, this isn't the deep philosophical discussion I wanted it to be. Suppose I phrased my question like this:

 

Imagine for a moment that lies are part of honor. How would they work together?

Now imagine that lies are a necessary part of cultivation. Why would cultivation need lies? Just consider it.

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Honestly, if I were to give Cryptics a 'descriptionspren' name, I'd call them truthspren. They seem very interested in how something can be true and not true at the same time - like metaphors - and the Lightweavers seem to be all about seeing the truth in yourself and the world around you (and then hiding it again...)

Of course, I'm generalizing from one example here, but everyone does that. At least, I do.

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Honestly, if I were to give Cryptics a 'descriptionspren' name, I'd call them truthspren. They seem very interested in how something can be true and not true at the same time - like metaphors - and the Lightweavers seem to be all about seeing the truth in yourself and the world around you (and then hiding it again...)

Of course, I'm generalizing from one example here, but everyone does that. At least, I do.

 

The funny thing is that back before we had a name for them we asked Brandon for something to refer to them as, until he revealed the canon name, and the name he gave was "truthspren".

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What does "cousin" mean for Spren? How can "the idea of the wind" be a cousin for "the idea of honor"? This isn't just a family resemblance; she behaves, most of the time, like a typical windspren. Takes their forms, their behavior.

 

Also, cryptics and honorspren don't get along. Weird, right? So, on this planet, the idea of honor and the idea of perceptual truth don't get along? I suppose that makes sense. Honor is all about acting like human societal constructs have inherent meaning, and perceptual truth means constantly manipulating human societal constructs. It's like two toddlers fighting over a toy.

 

Does Pattern have a cousin? Are there bloodspren that act similar to Pattern?

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Sorry, I hope I didn't come across as sounding like I was trying to contradict you. I know it's mentioned in-text, and I get that. I was trying to express confusion over the whole scenario. It's like Syl told us, "I've been a seamstress for seventeen years!" and I'd be like... da-whu? Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to contradict you. I just have no idea what Syl meant when she said that.

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What does "cousin" mean for Spren? How can "the idea of the wind" be a cousin for "the idea of honor"? This isn't just a family resemblance; she behaves, most of the time, like a typical windspren. Takes their forms, their behavior.

 

Also, cryptics and honorspren don't get along. Weird, right? So, on this planet, the idea of honor and the idea of perceptual truth don't get along? I suppose that makes sense. Honor is all about acting like human societal constructs have inherent meaning, and perceptual truth means constantly manipulating human societal constructs. It's like two toddlers fighting over a toy.

 

Does Pattern have a cousin? Are there bloodspren that act similar to Pattern?

 

I think the reason Cryptics don't like the term liespren is because it's actually the opposite of who they really are. They appreciate a lie really only so far as it helps reveal a truth, from what we've seen from Pattern thus far. 

 

I agree pretty strongly with the take from the WoR Re-Read over at Tor.com

Pattern reveals that he is essentially a scholar, that he came to Shallan hoping to learn about humans again. Is this scholarship business true of all Cryptics? I rather think it might be; I also think that there are some lovely hints in this chapter about why they’re called Cryptics rather than the suggested “liespren.” While Pattern is fascinated by what he considers “lies”—i.e. any non-literal figures of speech—he seems to love truths even more. What he really seems to be drawn to, as near as I can tell, is the place where the figurative and the literal balance to reveal Truth

 

 

and if that is the case, then Honor and Truth are what aren't getting along. It is also interesting as Weiry pointed out earlier, that Brandon's original name for the Cryptics was Truthspren. 

 

I can see why Truth and Honor don't get along... they conflict in the real world as well sometimes.

 

It's hard to mentally separate Honorspren from Honor the shard, but they have to be a subfacet of what we think of as "honor". I think they represent forthright, upstanding leadership (and protection, dealing honorably, and a willingness to sacrifice one's self, all irrespective of the law. 

 

Truth OTOH, cares only for the truth, if the truths are painful it is still better to air it than to protect someone from it. Sometimes it takes deception to get at a greater Truth, but only to a point. 

 

Case in point, Shallan & Pattern. He pretty much arranges and forces her to face very painful truths, so that she can grow as a KR and have the tools to deal with all the different things swirling around her. Also, he and Shallan use deception as Veil, to infiltrate the Ghostbloods, to get at the Truth of what is going on in the world (and on a smaller scale, what happened to Jasnah, etc.)

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Eh... I disagree with your assessment, and theirs, of what sort of "truth" Pattern likes. Light makes shadows as truth makes lies. He likes the lies coming from "the Yalb", the boasting and exaggeration. I admit that I'm projecting, as it's one of my personal philosophies, but this is the sort of truth I think he's the spren of. Things that are real, that have a demonstrable effect on the world, but which don't actually exist outside of human minds. Society. Community. Government. The things which are real only because we all collectively agree to let them be.

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