Fallen Rope

Type 5 Biochromatic entity?

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Every planet has a number that effects the magic system. Scadiral has 16 metal. Roshar has 10 Radiants, heralds, fools, deaths. Nalthis has returned at the 5th heightening, 5 scholars, and 4? types of biochromatic entity(BE for short). Now something seems wrong about the number of BEs being 4. Maybe there is a 5th entity.

 

Each BE seems to use a different material, my guess is that type 5 could be made of crystal, or maybe awakening the air?. Type 5 could be the thing that the 5th scholar has discovered that will be the plot in Nightblood.

Or it could just be Spontaneous Sentient BioChromatic Manifestations in sticks. :lol: 

Edited by Fallen Rope
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I think four is as much as you're going to get. There are two criteria determining the type of Biochromatic Entity, and the material it's made of isn't one of them.

 

1. Retrievablity:  Whether or not Breath can be reclaimed from the object.

 

2. Sapience: Whether the Breath merely animates, or bestows consciousness upon the object.

 

Inanimate objects (or, more specifically, things that had never been in possession of enough Innate Investiture to achieve sapience) do not bond as strongly to Breath, and their Breath can be retrieved by the Awakener. Breath cannot be reclaimed from entities that had attained sapience previous to being Awakened. (Seems to be a bit of a grey area here. Plants obviously fall into the first category, while mammals fall into the second. Where do insects and lesser vertebrates (fish/reptiles/birds) fit into the spectrum?) 

 

When something has attained enough Breath that it becomes sapient, rather than just animate, its classification also changes.

 

Seeing how there are only two variables, and only two options for each of those variables, then there are only four possible solutions. (Irretrievable/Sapient [Returned], Irretrievable/Non-Sapient [Lifeless], Retrievable/Sapient [Nightblood and like items], Retievable/Non-Sapient [Regular Awakened objects])

 

You could maybe describe a high-level Awakener as being a type V Biochromatic Entity, as they are something that currently has sentience which is being enhanced by Breath, but that might be a bit of a stretch.

Edited by AonarFaileas
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It could just be people in general who have breaths, like something that holds a breath but has to give it back as an identifier,

I don't really know, or it could just be something we have yet to see.

i wonder if you could give someone breaths with a specific instruction, that would be fun but their spark of life might interfere, either way it would be fun.

Edited by Tarontos
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First, I'm pretty sure 16 is important across the cosmere, 10 to a lesser extent, mainly just on Roshar (ten Shardworlds comes to mind, as do 10 known Heightenings). There's no reason to assume 5 is important to Nalthis, just because there's a milestone at one particular Heightening. The Five Scholars weren't some fundamental law of nature, it was just a group of people.

 

Second, the "materials" theory is flawed. Returned and Lifeless are both made from human corpses.

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I also think it is unlikely for there to be a Type V, the categories as they stand are just too neat, another would just be messy.

 

I would disagree on the "Retrievability" axis, there really is no indication that the Breath could be removed from Nightblood (and I get the feeling that if Vasher could have done it he would have done it).  I would say the axis is between "Corpse" and "Not-Corpse".

 

@Outis, Lifeless aren't exclusively made from human corpses, Vasher makes a squirrel Lifeless at one point.

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I wonder of Breaths themselves could be considered a biochromatic manifestation... Type 0, if you will.

Edited by Argent
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I do not think the number 5 is of importance on Nalthis, but is rather just a coincidence. If it were to be of Realmatic importance, there would only be 5 Heightenings. Instead there are, for certain, 10, and potentially more than that.

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I think every planet has a number, there might be a WoB but I could be wrong. And the scholars were all returned, Endowment sees the future well so the number was planed.

An about the materials theory, lifeless could be awakening flesh, returned is awakening the soul.

Edited by Fallen Rope
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I think every planet has a number, there might be a WoB but I could be wrong. And the scholars were all returned, Endowment sees the future well so the number was planed.

An about the materials theory, lifeless could be awakening flesh, returned is awakening the soul.

 

Do you have WoB for the bolded statement?

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Do you have WoB for the bolded statement?

 

Not for the last part.

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WoB for the numbers Idea, not solid prove of the number though,

4) It seems that certain colors and numbers appear frequently in specific cosmere books, like the number 5 in Warbreaker or red and blue in Elantris. Do these colors or numbers happen to refer to a specific shard, and if so, would they be consistent across the cosmere?

 

Certain colors and numbers are important in reference to certain shards.

 

And Endowment can see the future and sends returned to change it, that is basically a fact, so Endowment must of chosen the 5 scholars because they would become the 5 scholars.
And another link the the number 5 is that SA's table of essences has number 5 as "pulp" (natural materials are awakened) and body focus of "hair".

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And Endowment can see the future and sends returned to change it, that is basically a fact, so Endowment must of chosen the 5 scholars because they would become the 5 scholars.

And another link the the number 5 is that SA's table of essences has number 5 as "pulp" (natural materials are awakened) and body focus of "hair".

 

Sorry for not being more clear, this is what I meant. Do you have a WoB that proves Endowment can see the future? It's not in any of the books, so it would have to be WoB.

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Well, Endowment is presumably the one that lets Returned see the future, and it IS in the book that Returned see the future. I guess it could technically be someone else.

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The reasons I think Endowment sees the future is she does send returned back to change the future, and that kind means she needs to know what the future is. If she doesn't know the future then Endowment is just creating random returned and sending them back, which is less likely.

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The reasons I think Endowment sees the future is she does send returned back to change the future, and that kind means she needs to know what the future is. If she doesn't know the future then Endowment is just creating random returned and sending them back, which is less likely.

 

I think it is more likely that the process of an individual Returning is completely separate of Endowment. It is just a series of events that occur. The Returned have full control over whom they gift their Divine Breath to, and for what purpose. If Endowment was sending the Returned specifically with the purpose of changing the future, why would s/he not specifically tell them what they are meant to do? Why give them free will?

 

Editted for gender neutrality.

Edited by Blaze1616
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Just a note that we do *not* know Endowment's gender so referring to them as "she/her" is misleading.

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Just a note that we do *not* know Endowment's gender so referring to them as "she/her" is misleading.

 

Thanks, and editted!

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Maybe a type V is not only sentient, but possesses precognition.

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Endowment might or might not be able to view the future. It's certainly clear that the Returned themselves are capable of it. We have a notable example of a Shard incapable of seeing the future well granting the power to view it well, so it wouldn't be crazy. Lightsong's description of a voice offering him the chance to Return after he sees a vision of his city in flames implies heavily that Endowment can, however.

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We know Ruin cannot see the future as well as Preservation, but presumably his capacity to see the future is better than 5 seconds. I agree that it's odd that the Shard worse at seeing the future would nevertheless grant the power to see the future, in however limited a capacity.

 

However, Honor implies that most, if not all, Shards can see the future to some extent. We know for absolute sure that Preservation, Honor, and Cultivation can. It's strongly implied (if not outright stated) that Odium and Ruin can. At this point, I'd find it unique for any Shard to have literally no future sight.

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Mistborn spoilers:

If Ruin was capable of seeing more than five seconds into the future, then some of his interactions with Vin don't make a whole lot of sense. Particularly the end, when she surprises him with her actions and he didn't see it coming. Perhaps he wasn't trying to see the future at all times, but that would be odd. Certainly he wasn't able to see Marsh's betrayal coming, and he didn't look to see if his Inquisitors attacking Vin would work (which would have only required him to look minutes into the future).


 
There's a WoB:

JamesW
You said that Preservation created the Terris Prophecies. Why couldn't ruin see into the future and counter Preservation's plan? Is it because Ruin's intent has him focusing more on the present than the future, while Preservation (wanting to preserve forever) looks more into the future for that goal.

Brandon Sanderson
Looking into the future was not something Ruin was good at doing. That ability is confined to certain shards, and not others.
(source)

 

It kinda-sorta supports that all Shards can see the future (poorly) read one way, but if you read it as "the ability to see the future is confined to certain Shards", then it's a bit stronger and says Ruin couldn't even replicate the effects of atium on himself. Which would be weird.

Edited by Moogle
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In addition, wouldn't Shards looking into the future, and then performing actions to change that future, cause a new future to be had? Wouldn't they see this the first time they looked? Its like and atium v atium fight. By seeing the future, you can change the future, and in doing so the future you saw should be different, an endless cycle. Now, perhaps the Shards grant their holders the capacity to make sense of it all, but I definitely do not think all Shards have future sight, as pointed out by Moogle, and I do not believe there is evidence supporting that Endowment specifically has it.

Edited by Blaze1616
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I don't see any real proof that 5 is significant to Nalthis. The 5 scholars are a group of people, not relevant. The 5th Heightening is a milestone, but not really any more important than the other 9 milestones (just because Hallandren built a whole society around the Returned does not mean they are cosmically more significant than other awakeners). As for the 4 categories, we don't even know if that categorization is cosmically correct. We have that as the categories that the Scholars used, but no greater definitions. And we've seen from Mistborn how the categorizations of men can be flawed and produce inaccurate findings (High metals of Gold and Atium). There could easily be 5 or 8 or 127 categories for all we know. It just takes someone else looking at things differently. Just because the 5 Scholars divided awakened objects into 4 categories, does not mean that another couldn't use different criteria and redefine the boundaries.

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If there was a fifth it would be spontaneous manifestation in a non organic host.

You break a sword and it fixes itself, gets an aura and is basically nightblood if endowment gave the command.

Edit: note this is unlikely as swords cannot really die, and therefor cannot fit the "recently deceased" clause of being returned. Which makes me realise the possibility of spontaneous manifestation in a live host maybe?

Edited by Cam
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