valkynphyre

Translation of the Cover page of 'The Treatise Metallurgic.'

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Nice. Also, fun fact: the Elendel Daily broadsheet has tin symbols flanking its name in the header, 'e' for Elendel.

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Well, here is your name, more or less.post-18-0-57150400-1336149979_thumb.png

Also, I'm not totally sure what to do about the "th" sound. We didn't build it into the alphabet because it's not used in major characters' names. But it does appear in Hathsin. It's possible that it's used like in French and German (like in Thenardier and Neanderthal) and is just pronounced "t."

Edited by PeterAhlstrom
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Well, here is your name, more or less.post-18-0-57150400-1336149979_thumb.png

Also, I'm not totally sure what to do about the "th" sound. We didn't build it into the alphabet because it's not used in major characters' names. But it does appear in Hathsin. It's possible that it's used like in French and German (like in Thenardier and Neanderthal) and is just pronounced "t."

did they just swap out symbols (so V is still atium?), or did they expand it to use the feruchemical representations also, or are they just a completely different order?

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Well, here is your name, more or less.post-18-0-57150400-1336149979_thumb.png

Also, I'm not totally sure what to do about the "th" sound. We didn't build it into the alphabet because it's not used in major characters' names. But it does appear in Hathsin. It's possible that it's used like in French and German (like in Thenardier and Neanderthal) and is just pronounced "t."

Looking more closely at the font, it looks like we're missing some information. Note that the tin symbol for 'e' and 'i' are slightly different: the dot is in a different location. I suppose that the dots are diacritical marks, then.

Any other diacritical information we should know about the Steel Alphabet (or Alethi, for that matter), Peter? :huh:

Edited by Kurkistan
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For those of you who have the Mistborn adventure game, around page 262, there is a full-page drawing of a steel inquisitor with symbols, obviously a written language, describing the drawing. Much like the drawings in the Way of Kings, the symbols do not directly correlate to our alphabet, but after some work I was able to translate them.

I present this unto thee, fellow sharders.

Hemalurgy, holiest of holy powers. By The LORD RULER, who shall live forever, God over men. Let not the knowledge of these sacred pages pass beyond the ministers, who dwell within his house, by his Holy Grace Unending.

Hemalurgy is by greater by far than the lesser powers of allomancy or the barbarian powers of feruchemy, for it is the sum of both and more. Once granted unto the blessed of STEEL, they shall be forever changed.

Iron: Grant strength taken from humans.

Steel: Grant a physical power of Allomancy.

Tin: Enhance the human senses.

Pewter: Grant a physical power of Feruchemy.

Zinc: Enhance emotional fortitude.

Brass: Grant a mental power of Feruchemy

Copper: Enhance memory and intelligence.

Bronze: Grant a mental power of Allomancy.

Atium: Grant a power of temporal Allomancy.

Aluminum: Enhance a power of Allomancy.

Though you strike out their eyes,

they shall see the hearts of men.

For those who would truly serve His Grace, there shall ever be three of Steel to mark them.

Two shall bend their sight, and one shall bend their soul. Let the sacred spike of blessed metal pierce the heart of the sacrifice, to consume the soul and power. Thus prepared, the spike is thrust into the body and blood of the chosen by the Lord Ruler to receive his benediction.

Hope you guys enjoy!

Almost perfect, well done!!

But "bend" should be "bind". Easy mistake, the I/E share a symbol. Also I thought it was "those chosen" rather than "the chosen", but I might have messed up (though we triple-blind-checked it). If I really did write "is by greater by far", it'd be nice if the wiki translation fudged a grammar correction there (it should just be "is greater by far", of course).

It's not surprising that the text is hard to read at that resolution, especially when you add in that I had a whole internalized set of rules for allowing the symbols to touch in order to aid in the "script" effect. Letters do blend together a little, intentionally.

I think that image might be my favorite out of the whole set... I was wondering how long it would be until someone got around to translating it.

:D

Edited by Inkthinker
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Almost perfect, well done!!

But "bend" should be "bind". Easy mistake, the I/E share a symbol. Also I thought it was "those chosen" rather than "the chosen", but I might have messed up (though we triple-blind-checked it). If I really did write "is by greater by far", it'd be nice if the wiki translation fudged a grammar correction there (it should just be "is greater by far", of course).

It's not surprising that the text is hard to read at that resolution, especially when you add in that I had a whole internalized set of rules for allowing the symbols to touch in order to aid in the "script" effect. Letters do blend together a little, intentionally.

I think that image might be my favorite out of the whole set... I was wondering how long it would be until someone got around to translating it.

:D

Thanks for the clarification. Would you like to tell us what diacriticals differentiate O/U, since we already know the I/E differentiation? Any others we should know about? :huh:

Edited by Kurkistan
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Almost perfect, well done!!

But "bend" should be "bind". Easy mistake, the I/E share a symbol. Also I thought it was "those chosen" rather than "the chosen", but I might have messed up (though we triple-blind-checked it). If I really did write "is by greater by far", it'd be nice if the wiki translation fudged a grammar correction there (it should just be "is greater by far", of course).

It's not surprising that the text is hard to read at that resolution, especially when you add in that I had a whole internalized set of rules for allowing the symbols to touch in order to aid in the "script" effect. Letters do blend together a little, intentionally.

I think that image might be my favorite out of the whole set... I was wondering how long it would be until someone got around to translating it.

:D

cool, I'll edit my original post, to make sure those who come for the correct translation get it.

I certainly enjoyed translating it. Great work, Inkthinker.

I did double check, and it does say 'the chosen.' Jsyk.

Edited by valkynphyre
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Thanks for the clarification. Would you like to tell us what diacriticals differentiate O/U, since we already know the I/E differentiation? Any others we should know about? :huh:

Near as I can recall, it's contextual. And if there's an "OU" point (like "though") then I believe the rule was to use one symbol. Same for situations with double-letters.

Browsing the valkynphyre translation, nothing else stood out. As I said, almost perfect. I did double-check the second paragraph, and I did get it right ("is greater by far"). Don't scare me like that! I got a nervous disposition.

In the end it was just meant to be a fun game for someone to play. I tried hard to get a "secret" in there, but there wasn't anything I could include that Brandon was ready to let out into the wild. So I ended up just writing a lot of pseudo-religious-sounding text that seemed suitable to the Ministry. I reckon if anything in there was determined to be "wrong", we could chalk it up to the Ministry being mistaken.

Not me, of course. I never make mistakes. :D

Edited by Inkthinker
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Nice. Also, fun fact: the Elendel Daily broadsheet has tin symbols flanking its name in the header, 'e' for Elendel.

...Actually, it was because Tin is for enhanced senses, so it made sense as the symbol for those who see clearly and hear more than the average citizen.

But I can roll with "E" for "Elendel" too, sure, why not? Totally intentional, meant it the whole time.

:D

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Near as I can recall, it's contextual. And if there's an "OU" point (like "though") then I believe the rule was to use one symbol. Same for situations with double-letters.

Browsing the valkynphyre translation, nothing else stood out. As I said, almost perfect. I did double-check the second paragraph, and I did get it right ("is greater by far"). Don't scare me like that! I got a nervous disposition.

In the end it was just meant to be a fun game for someone to play. I tried hard to get a "secret" in there, but there wasn't anything I could include that Brandon was ready to let out into the wild. So I ended up just writing a lot of pseudo-religious-sounding text that seemed suitable to the Ministry. I reckon if anything in there was determined to be "wrong", we could chalk it up to the Ministry being mistaken.

Not me, of course. I never make mistakes. :D

Thank you for the inside knowledge. Just to double check, there is supposed to be a difference between the I and E symbols every time, right?

...Actually, it was because Tin is for enhanced senses, so it made sense as the symbol for those who see clearly and hear more than the average citizen.

But I can roll with "E" for "Elendel" too, sure, why not? Totally intentional, meant it the whole time.

:D

Of course, of course. Entirely intentional. ;)

EDIT: Oh no... The dot is in the 'i' location on the broadsheet, not the 'e' location. Oh how the world shall weep at missing such a fortuitous coincidence!

Edited by Kurkistan
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The ALLOY OF LAW symbols are not a different alphabet from the one used in MISTBORN 1. It is just a more modern font. (In-world, there would be a variety of fonts, as there are in our world.] The traditional font is still legible to the majority of the population, and is still used when they want an old-fashioned look.

Looking more closely at the font, it looks like we're missing some information. Note that the tin symbol for 'e' and 'i' are slightly different: the dot is in a different location. I suppose that the dots are diacritical marks, then.

Any other diacritical information we should know about the Steel Alphabet (or Alethi, for that matter), Peter? :huh:

Moving the dot to distinguish vowels is a modern innovation, within the last 100 years by ALLOY OF LAW. I suspect that dots may be gone entirely (except for the two changed vowels, and maybe "capital" letters) in many fonts by the time you get to the second trilogy. Numbers might get a moved dot too. The placement of the dots in the original symbology has to do with Allomancy, but they're largely superfluous in writing.

The Feruchemical symbols (which are in the RPG) are evolved from the same root (the ancient symbols you can see in MISTBORN 3), but I don't know about their use in modern writing. It could be something like the hiragana/katakana distinction. But that's just speculation right now.

Edited by PeterAhlstrom
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Moving the dot to distinguish vowels is a modern innovation, within the last 100 years by ALLOY OF LAW. I suspect that dots may be gone entirely (except for the two changed vowels, and maybe "capital" letters) in many fonts by the time you get to the second trilogy. Numbers might get a moved dot too. The placement of the dots in the original symbology has to do with Allomancy, but they're largely superfluous in writing.

Ah, so the dots signal Pulling (dots outside the crescent) versus Pushing (dots inside) metals. Clever, I must say.

Thanks for clearing that up. It's nice to know that you've put so much thought into all of this. :)

EDIT: And that means that we can still claim that the Elendel Daily is using the Tin symbol for both "sharpness of sight" and for the letter 'e', given that it's likely deliberately archaic. Or "capitalized," perhaps.

EDIT 2: Also, it could be Base/Alloy for dot outside/inside, since they are the same sets.

Edited by Kurkistan
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I'm imagining that the E/I and O/U pairs would be alphabetized intermixed in Scadrial dictionaries and phone books. They are still seen as basically the same letter.

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Curse those Scadralians and their lack of a partially redundant alphabet!

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This is fascinating Peter, thank you for sharing. I do have one curiosity though for either you or if you are too busy for anyone who wishes to speculate. I read this today in my Mistobrn reread

The language people now speak is actually a distant dialect of Terris, the language of my homeland.

So why don't the people use the Terris symbols as well? When did this change occur and how and why did the Lord Ruler make this so?

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This is fascinating Peter, thank you for sharing. I do have one curiosity though for either you or if you are too busy for anyone who wishes to speculate. I read this today in my Mistobrn reread

So why don't the people use the Terris symbols as well? When did this change occur and how and why did the Lord Ruler make this so?

If I had to bet, it would be because the Terris symbols say something about the Feruchemical properties of the metals (which TLR didn't want anyone to even know about) while the Allomantic symbols are related to the Allomantic properties of the metals.

EDIT: New answer! Grabbed this off of Isaac's site:

Q: Do we know the exact purpose for creating 3 different symbols for each book’s metals (chapter symbols)? Is it for the 3 metallic arts? If so, which belong to which? More info…

A: The three sets of symbols show the progression of the Allomantic text through the ages. The earliest script is from Hero of Ages. It was changed and modified into the Terris script symbols we see in Well of Ascension. After more time, the Terris script morphed into what is now known as the Allomantic Alphabet or the Steel Alphabet, which are the symbols used in Mistborn: The Final Empire. We’ve extrapolated the Steel Alphabet into a script that’s more-standardized and refined for the chapter headings in Alloy of Law, which takes place 300 years after Hero of Ages.

So we're actually watching a regression from the height of refinement in the first book to the crudest, most Terris-like in the last. So TLR did use the Terris symbols initially, they just morphed. Perhaps the Terris symbols in the RPG are yet another "modern" version of the source symbols for the Steel Alphabet, just developed separately.

Edited by Kurkistan
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So what you're saying is that the language split into two branches before the Ascension and developed separately, one in the Final Empire and the other, perhaps more traditional script kept alive by the Synod? I think that makes sense. They don't really seem all that similar but a thousand years of development can change something a lot. It makes sense to me, thanks!

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Wow. This is awesome. I love the little details like this that go into Brandon's books. It has taken us years, and some brand new material to finally ask the questions about those symbols in Well of Ascension and Hero of Ages. Way cool.

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Modern Hebrew and modern Greek alphabets are descended from the same original source, but they look totally different. Modern Allomantic and modern Feruchemical alphabets are actually more closely related than that, but still look quite different.

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Modern Hebrew and modern Greek alphabets are descended from the same original source, but they look totally different. Modern Allomantic and modern Feruchemical alphabets are actually more closely related than that, but still look quite different.

Ah, sorry I missed this part:

The Feruchemical symbols (which are in the RPG) are evolved from the same root (the ancient symbols you can see in MISTBORN 3), but I don't know about their use in modern writing. It could be something like the hiragana/katakana distinction. But that's just speculation right now.

with my "perhaps" just now. I was a bit focused on the I/E at that moment. :rolleyes:

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I'll look into that, and see if that is true. If it is, I will post them.

It looks like there's a few symbols that weren't even used on that page, there's one at the start of chapter 19 that is unfamiliar. also, there's a simple one on the prologue and epilogue that never appear on the Treatise Metallurgic.

I imagine the symbol on the prologue represents the number 1, and the one on chapter nineteen represents J, Z or Q.

If I was going to write an X, i would just use the symbol for K and then S.

The steel Alphabet is remarkable similar to what we see in The Way of Kings.

See my temporary page on the wiki for a nice table of symbols/numbers/metals/letters. I'm fairly sure J, Q and X can be broken up into phonetic representations (J eg dual or gaol, Q with a KEW or a CHU, X with a CHS or an EKS) but z is a bit buzzy for the rest of them. The small spike used for prologue/epilogue is the symbol for 0, as discussed in Darniil's topic on the subject of cartography. We have Aluminium 15px-Aluminum.png and symbol 19 15px-Allomancy_19_%28Final_Empire%29.png spare for any of those, FYI

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^As to the "Obscurities from The Well of Ascension" section on that page, wasn't Sazed exiled by the Sinod? So he is "He who is not of his people, yet fulfils all of their wishes." So it is simply a misinterpretation to say that the HoA won't be Terris. If I'm even reading that section right, that is.

EDIT: Also, you may want to note exactly how the dot differentiates I/E, although we still aren't sure of how the dot differentiates O/U.

Edited by Kurkistan
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That was basically a statement made by Tindwyl during the study-phase in MB3. That page is just a collection of odds and ends ;)

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Ah.

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