Oudeis Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Honorblades do stack. Were you saying that you can get multiple honorblades and therefore a multitude of Surges, or were you saying that if you had the first and second Honorblades, you'd be twice as powerful at Gravitation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curiosity Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Were you saying that you can get multiple honorblades and therefore a multitude of Surges, or were you saying that if you had the first and second Honorblades, you'd be twice as powerful at Gravitation? You can hold more than one Honorblade at a time, and you can indeed have more than two Surges. However, The strength of the Surge is more dependent on your technique and the amount of Stormlight you use.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 @Outis What Curiosity said. See Moogle's post a few posts up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 @Outis What Curiosity said. See Moogle's post a few posts up. Your phrasing confused me, as you used the word "stack" which weebojello also used, but he used it to mean the other thing, where having Gravitation twice makes you twice as strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 My apologies for the confusion. Are we clear now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebojello Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I was intending the word "stack" as I guess more of compounding - Kaladin's lashing are 2X as strong using Jezriens blade. We now know that it is certainly > 1X (spren or Jezrien's honorblade), but less than a full 2X (full powered spren + pull powered Jezrien blade). I was not intentionally referring to stacking in the context where Kaladin's Wind runner abilities + Dusbringer blade would give Kaladin access to four surges, which is correct. I blame my too many years of playing EQ for the loose usage of "stacking". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 How does it work, exactly? The WoB says that the power of the Lashing is how much Stormlight you put into it. Does having the surge "twice" increase your own personal limit of how much stormlight you can put into any specific lashing? What if you had lightweaving twice? What's the difference? Duration? Size? How "convincing" it is? Is it easier to know how to do the more abstract lightweaving tricks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebojello Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 General Stormlight Questions: 1) Do we have any confirmation that the regular slave parshmen are actually voidbringers. My reasoning is this: I thought Dalinar's question to the Stormfather was not answered satisfactorily. Also, the Alethi warcamp was unaffected by any parshmen turning into voidbringers. Also, in the spanreed communications to everyone from Urithuru, there were no attacks / instances of parshmen turning into voidbringers. 2) Why does Syl not care about shardplate? Shardblades are anathema, but the plate she seems relatively oblivous, too. I suspect the next book will clear us up on the origin of shardplate, but I was wondering if there were some WOB about this. 3) If spren were the attempt to replicate the what Honor did to the heralds, is it reasonable to assume that shardplate is nothing more than attempting to mimic a Heralds inborn "toughness". Basically, a Herald unsuited is equivalent to a suited / functional shardplate suit of armor. 4) Do all KR friendly Nahel-bonded spren (Wyndle, Patter, Ivory, etc) have the same aversion to shardblades that Syl has? Or is just an aversion by those more closely bound to Honor? Any help is appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackYeti Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 General Stormlight Questions: 1) Do we have any confirmation that the regular slave parshmen are actually voidbringers. My reasoning is this: I thought Dalinar's question to the Stormfather was not answered satisfactorily. Also, the Alethi warcamp was unaffected by any parshmen turning into voidbringers. Also, in the spanreed communications to everyone from Urithuru, there were no attacks / instances of parshmen turning into voidbringers. 2) Why does Syl not care about shardplate? Shardblades are anathema, but the plate she seems relatively oblivous, too. I suspect the next book will clear us up on the origin of shardplate, but I was wondering if there were some WOB about this. 3) If spren were the attempt to replicate the what Honor did to the heralds, is it reasonable to assume that shardplate is nothing more than attempting to mimic a Heralds inborn "toughness". Basically, a Herald unsuited is equivalent to a suited / functional shardplate suit of armor. 4) Do all KR friendly Nahel-bonded spren (Wyndle, Patter, Ivory, etc) have the same aversion to shardblades that Syl has? Or is just an aversion by those more closely bound to Honor? Any help is appreciated! 1) The parshmen are not Voidbringers, but they will become Voidbringers if and when they are bonded to Voidspren. Every indication so far indicates that this will happen when the Everstorm reaches them, it's been all but stated explicitly. The only real unknown here I feel is whether or not they actually need to be outside in the Everstorm for it to affect them, or whether they will be transformed when it reaches them regardless. The parshmen in the Alethi warcamps were unaffected by the Everstorm, because the Everstorm has not yet reached the warcamps. The Parshendi/Voidbringers could only summon the Everstorm practically on top of themselves, so it formed to the east of the Warcamps, and then continued to move eastward (that's why they had to wait until the Alethi army had actually reached them in order to summon the storm, else they wouldn't have been caught in it). It was explicitly stated after they reached Urithiru that the warcamps were one of the places that they were sending warning of the Everstorm to, which wouldn't make any sense if it had reached them already. 2) Syl probably doesn't care about the Shardplate because it isn't the body of a dead spren. There's not much we know for sure about the nature of Shardplate yet, so it's really open to speculation at this point. 3) It's possible, but as I said before: we don't know much about the nature of Shardplate, so... 4) We know that the Stormfather shares Syl's aversion to dead Shardblades. As for other types of spren, I don't think that we really know yet. I've been assuming that it's universal, but it could be that there are other types of spren who don't share it, or at least not to the same extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 General Stormlight Questions: 1) Do we have any confirmation that the regular slave parshmen are actually voidbringers. My reasoning is this: I thought Dalinar's question to the Stormfather was not answered satisfactorily. Also, the Alethi warcamp was unaffected by any parshmen turning into voidbringers. Also, in the spanreed communications to everyone from Urithuru, there were no attacks / instances of parshmen turning into voidbringers. 2) Why does Syl not care about shardplate? Shardblades are anathema, but the plate she seems relatively oblivous, too. I suspect the next book will clear us up on the origin of shardplate, but I was wondering if there were some WOB about this. 3) If spren were the attempt to replicate the what Honor did to the heralds, is it reasonable to assume that shardplate is nothing more than attempting to mimic a Heralds inborn "toughness". Basically, a Herald unsuited is equivalent to a suited / functional shardplate suit of armor. 4) Do all KR friendly Nahel-bonded spren (Wyndle, Patter, Ivory, etc) have the same aversion to shardblades that Syl has? Or is just an aversion by those more closely bound to Honor? Any help is appreciated! We know from Eshonai's interludes that the parshmen are what the listeners think of as "slaveform" or "no form at all." So, same species. That parshman from Bridge Four whose name eludes me right now was able to bind to a spren and assume warform, so he should be able to do another - such as stormspren / stormform. There are several obvious differences between Shardplate and Shardblade - the most glaring of which is that Syl doesn't find Plate repulsive. So, something is noticeably different about it, but we don't know what. Maybe, maybe not. This goes back to "we don't really know anything substantial about Plate" Aaand once again we don't know. We have only seen Syl's and the Stormfather's reactions, but considering that "dead" Shardblades scream when touched by a Radiant in training, I am going to say that all spren can hear it, and thus be hurt by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 4) We know that the Stormfather shares Syl's aversion to dead Shardblades. As for other types of spren, I don't think that we really know yet. I've been assuming that it's universal, but it could be that there are other types of spren who don't share it, or at least not to the same extent. WoR spoilers. Doesn't Wyndle mention that Darkness is wielding an "abomination," the same word that the Stormfather uses to describe the blade he finds Dalinar with? I'll re-read that scene. Which is odd cuz I actually thought Darkness was the one Herald who went back for his Honorblade, so why would he have a Shardblade? And he's obviously Investing. Maybe the Heralds can Invest even without their Honorblades? I guess he could have just actually bonded a highspren and become a Knight Radiant, but then either his Blade would be his Spren, and therefore not an Abomination, or it would be a deadspren Blade, and thus he would hear the screams because he's a bonded Radiant. The most likely explanation is that I'm simply remembering the passage wrong, and Wyndle said something else was abominable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackYeti Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) WoR spoilers. Doesn't Wyndle mention that Darkness is wielding an "abomination," the same word that the Stormfather uses to describe the blade he finds Dalinar with? I'll re-read that scene. Which is odd cuz I actually thought Darkness was the one Herald who went back for his Honorblade, so why would he have a Shardblade? And he's obviously Investing. Maybe the Heralds can Invest even without their Honorblades? I guess he could have just actually bonded a highspren and become a Knight Radiant, but then either his Blade would be his Spren, and therefore not an Abomination, or it would be a deadspren Blade, and thus he would hear the screams because he's a bonded Radiant. The most likely explanation is that I'm simply remembering the passage wrong, and Wyndle said something else was abominable. This is brilliant Outis, I'd forgotten about that, and you are correct about the use of the word "abomination". "What has become of me?" Wyndle asked. "Thieving in the night, chased by abominations. Words of Radiance, UK hardcover, page 701 Note the use of the plural form. I would guess that this means that he is referring to the Shardblades carried by Darkness's minions, therefore he feels the same way towards them as the Stormfather and Syl. Since Wyndle is a spren that seems to be more of Cultivation, I would suggest that this is very good evidence to say that all of the spren have the same reaction to the dead Shardblades. Regarding your speculation on Darkness/Nalan: I also think that he was the Herald who went back for his Honourblade since we saw him holding Stormlight, and we have the following WoB. Rybal Q: Can the Heralds Surgebind without their Blades and if not are they under the same restrictions that others are. A: The Heralds without their Blades are incapable of the powers you're familiar with. It doesn't mean there aren't other things they can do. Source Edited September 4, 2014 by BlackYeti 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) WoR spoilers. Doesn't Wyndle mention that Darkness is wielding an "abomination," the same word that the Stormfather uses to describe the blade he finds Dalinar with? I'll re-read that scene. Which is odd cuz I actually thought Darkness was the one Herald who went back for his Honorblade, so why would he have a Shardblade? And he's obviously Investing. Maybe the Heralds can Invest even without their Honorblades? I guess he could have just actually bonded a highspren and become a Knight Radiant, but then either his Blade would be his Spren, and therefore not an Abomination, or it would be a deadspren Blade, and thus he would hear the screams because he's a bonded Radiant. The most likely explanation is that I'm simply remembering the passage wrong, and Wyndle said something else was abominable. Recent WoB (which I begged Khyrindor to ask, in fact): Q: Did Nalan's eyes change when he killed Ym? (And attempted to kill Lift) A: (He thought a moment again) No, I don't think so. (source) If you go with the theory that Honorblades change eye color, then Nalan's eyes should have changed. So he probably summoned a regular Shardblade. (Or else his eye color is already what his Honorblade was, or whatever). In any case, it would be a stupid idea for Nalan to summon his Honorblade and have anyone remark on it looking special or his eye color having changed, so even if he did take his Honorblade back (which he probably did, since he takes in Stormlight) then it would be a good idea for him to also have a regular Shardblade to summon. And the Skybreakers apparently have plenty of those, given that Helaran managed to snag one. This fits in well with Wyndle saying he holds an "abomination". Honorblades are fine in Syl's eyes - she's only ever had a problem with dead spren. Edited September 4, 2014 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebojello Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Thanks for the clarifications. I've tried reading all the WOB's, but there are so many threads over so many years that even the excellently compiled ones done during the WOR tour can get lost. The more I think of it, the more I'm fairly certain that shardplate mimics the natural toughness of a Herald, allowing Kaladin, etc, to gain those extra abilities. Apparently, knowing that Kaladin is at 3 bonds, Shallan at 4, it stands to reason that if plate is part of the bonding process, it doesn't come until the 5th, OR, it involves the unique abilities of a different KR class to make. Oh well. Let's hope there's a book in 2015 (sigh, 2016....). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Yeah, 2015 is not happening. First quarter of 2016 would be possible, but not overwhelmingly likely. As for the Shardplate and the Heralds' alleged toughness, we don't know they are tougher, or more durable, or anything else in general. The-artist-formerly-known-as-Taln seems supernaturally fast, but that's the only thing we've seen - we don't know whether all Heralds get speed, or whether they all get physical bonuses, or even whether Taln is a Herald or not! Also, Radiant "levels" come in Ideals, not bonds. Bonds have a very specific meaning in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumen Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 We know from Eshonai's interludes that the parshmen are what the listeners think of as "slaveform" or "no form at all." So, same species. That parshman from Bridge Four whose name eludes me right now was able to bind to a spren and assume warform, so he should be able to do another - such as stormspren / stormform. Actually, I think he was dull-form. Not slaveform. He had a bond, it just wasn't one with any physically altering benefits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebojello Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Argent, Yeah - thanks. In my mind I was meaning what you typed, but wrote down something completely different. Yep, it's the # of Oaths / Ideals and not bonds as that's implicating surges potentially. My goof! Would we get RAFO'd on the shardplate being the spren copying inherent Herald toughness? In my minds eye, Herald physiology is nearly identical to a Returned physiology. It would be interesting to see what Zahel could do fully unleashed at his Returned Vasher level on Roshar. And so, my tangent aside, a KR with plate is the nearest equivalent to a Herald as one could get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saal Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) So based on the responses that I received in this thread I now haz moah questions. Does the Nahel Bond actually change the Spren's capabilities, essentially altering their Spiritweb? If so, what determines which alterations are made? If not, does the bond simply "unlock" sections of the Spiritweb that they did not previously have access to? Are Shardblades more Cognitive, Physical, or Spiritual in nature? If Syl passed through something in the form of a leaf, will she sever its soul? If not, then what makes her act differently when she's in the form a Shardblade? What specifically caused those spren to appear as a Shardblade instead of whatever their normal "physical" form? For example, why would Pattern not turn into the pattern shape that he normally has? Do we have any WoB on whether or not he was specifically referring to Shardblades being patterned after Honorblades general physical shape (i.e. they come with a hilt, blade, pummel, etc.)? EDIT: Would these questions be better suited to the Ultimate List of Questions for Brandon Sanderson? Edited October 3, 2014 by Saal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Is there a list somewhere of all the books Brandon has written? Not just the published ones, but ones like Dragonsteel or White Sand. Also, how does one get White Sand etc.? Do I have to go to BYU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 For White Sand and Aether of Night you just have to send Brandon an email requesting them. As for the list of the unpublished books, the coppermind has one (though it is still a work in progress in formatting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Oh thanks! How long does it take on average to receive a reply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Are there diminishing returns on Flaring your metal? By burning it so hot, like a feruchemist compounding his own traits, do you get a power boost at the cost of efficiency in burning? What about duralumin? Is the total amount of power you get exactly equal to what you would have gotten over time by simply burning it? Is there any fundamental difference between flaring a metal before a duraburst, as opposed to simply burning it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 WOW! Amazing thread guys learnt so much!! I have a few questions! 1. Honor = Surgebinding Odium = Voidbinding Cultivation = Old Magic? 2. Could somebody give me an explanation on the difference between, physical, Spiritual and Cognitive worlds? 3. Do we know which type of Feruchemic/Twinborn ability Hoid uses to 'know where he has to be'? 4. Did he have it prior to Well of Ascension? 5.Who are Jon Snows parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) 1. Surgebinding is Honor + Cultivation, the rest we don't know. I'm a fan of the theory that puts Voidbinding as Honor + Odium + Cultivation, and the Old Magic as Cultivation + Odium. It's also possible one of the systems is Honor + Odium, but for the moment I suspect Cultivation will be a part of every system on Roshar. 2. Physical: our world. Cognitive: Shadesmar, where everything is based on the thoughts of things and how the things are perceived. Regions with no thinking minds are compressed, and regions with lots of minds are enlarged. Spiritual: A place of 'ideals', we know very little, though it is speculated we saw it in Kaladin's highstorm vacation and Dalinar's dream. If so, the Spiritual realm appears to be pitch black, and yet you know where everything is anyways. We really don't know a lot about the Realms. 3. No, though people think he might be using chromiuminds since they might store serendipity (since that might be a part of luck). 4. Don't know. 5. R+L=J is the google term I'd use for the most common fan theory. Edited October 24, 2014 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Received them. Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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