Question and Answer

[Levian]

Well sharing the name makes perfect sense to me. Why wouldn't Honor/Cultivation call R-LW Lightweaving if it is essentially the same as what they are familiar with from Yolen. They would call it what it was, which is Lightweaving.

 

I'm with Kurkistan on this though, what similarities do you see?

Well it seems in each of his books, Sanderson creates a completely new magic system. They all follow similar laws and all do semi-similar things but in general they are all unique - except, it would seem, healing and Lightweaving. The major difference between each system is the manner in which it can be used, a different power source if you will. Scadrial requires certain metals to be burned, Roshar requires different gems infused with Stormlight (not sure what will happen if someone tries to do some Surgebinding in a Highstorm, could make for some good speculation), and I think Warbreaker requires Breath? 

 

The similarities I mentioned about Allomancy and Surgebinding was mostly the fact that some things can be "pulled" or "pushed". In Scadrial it is done in a different manner and has different limitations, i.e. doesn't seem to affect gravity, it just creates a force either outward on a metal object that  can be used to push something or repel yourself, or pull a metal object to you or use it to pull yourself to it, if the object is heavy enough or rooted in place. Surgebinding is similar in a fashion, it can change the gravitational forces to produce a similar effect as Pulls or Pushes. Give an item a gravitational force and it pulls in nearby objects to it, realign your own gravity and it is similar to Pulling yourself to an object. I know it isn't the same thing, merely pointing out that they can accomplish nearly the same effect but in a completely different manner.

 

On to the point of Lightweaving, so far no magic system has repeated itself except for healing. Obviously Yolan Lightweaving will require a different power source, coming from it's own shardworld. But from what I've seen, while some things in each magic system may have similar effects that are accomplished in different methods (Pulling yourself to a metal object vs. re-aligning your own gravity to fall towards the direction you want to go), it really stands out to me, even just the fact that they share a name. Of course it has yet to be seen if both forms of Lightweaving actually do the same thing, as we haven't really seen it in either book yet (minus one example from Hoid), or perhaps they accomplish similar effects but with completely different methods. And, as Shardlet has pointed out we're not 100% sure it even is called "Lightweaving" on Yolen or not. Anyways, suffice to say that I've noticed it as a bit of an oddity for the moment, but it remains to be seen. Heck, my only info that Hoid actually has Lightweaving (besides his own example) is from his entry on Coppermind, which may have just used the word "Lightweaving" because it's the only semi-known thing that may produce that affect.

 

Whew, and that's waaay more than I meant to type on that. 

 

That is how it works. And technically yes he could ask Preservation or Ruin to insert the genes for feruchemy, it is within their powers. Sazed does something similar when he turns Spook into a mistborn. As for the mechanical Metallic Arts, we know that from an interview, not Alloy of Law.

 

Oh I never doubted that a shard can grant these powers. I was merely stating that the two things suggested - Hoid asking Ruin/Preservation for Feruchemy on Yolen before the split/before they moved to another world, and the fact that Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemelurgy only came about as a result of Ruin/Preservation interacting with Scadrial - are contradictory. I'm sure he could have went to Scadrial once Ruin/Preservation/Harmony Sazed was there and ask for it then, OR if those powers are completely tied to a Shard and NOT the interaction of the Shards+Planet then he could have asked for the powers in Yolen, pre-Shard migration. Sorry if my wording before was a bit confusing.

 

Yes that means space ships, Brandon has said that he designed the Metallic Arts in such a way to have FTL built into the system. I really would reccomend reading Alloy, it isn't my favorite cosmere book but it is still pretty good. It has a bit of a Western feel and the interaction between the modern setting (such as guns) and the magic systems is really interesting

 

 

It does sound interesting, I've just picked up Allow of Laws today and it'll probably be my next read, I'm actually really looking forward to reading about Allomancy again! 

 

Thanks for all the replies everyone, its really cleared up a lot of my questions and filled me in on some things I wouldn't have been able to find out on my own.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Levian

[WeiryWriter]

Well it seems in each of his books, Sanderson creates a completely new magic system. They all follow similar laws and all do semi-similar things but in general they are all unique - except, it would seem, healing and Lightweaving. The major difference between each system is the manner in which it can be used, a different power source if you will. Scadrial requires certain metals to be burned, Roshar requires different gems infused with Stormlight (not sure what will happen if someone tries to do some Surgebinding in a Highstorm, could make for some good speculation), and I think Warbreaker requires Breath?

We know that similar magics tend to work in the same way. All healing magics work in essentially the same way, all illusion magics (read Lightweaving) work in the same way.

 

The similarities I mentioned about Allomancy and Surgebinding was mostly the fact that some things can be "pulled" or "pushed". In Scadrial it is done in a different manner and has different limitations, i.e. doesn't seem to affect gravity, it just creates a force either outward on a metal object that  can be used to push something or repel yourself, or pull a metal object to you or use it to pull yourself to it, if the object is heavy enough or rooted in place. Surgebinding is similar in a fashion, it can change the gravitational forces to produce a similar effect as Pulls or Pushes. Give an item a gravitational force and it pulls in nearby objects to it, realign your own gravity and it is similar to Pulling yourself to an object. I know it isn't the same thing, merely pointing out that they can accomplish nearly the same effect but in a completely different manner.

I don't really think that is what Brandon means by similarities. I get the impression that he is talking about "mechanical" similarities, that they don't just result in the same effects the produce them in the same/similiar ways as well. If that makes sense...

 

On to the point of Lightweaving, so far no magic system has repeated itself except for healing. Obviously Yolan Lightweaving will require a different power source, coming from it's own shardworld. But from what I've seen, while some things in each magic system may have similar effects that are accomplished in different methods (Pulling yourself to a metal object vs. re-aligning your own gravity to fall towards the direction you want to go), it really stands out to me, even just the fact that they share a name. Of course it has yet to be seen if both forms of Lightweaving actually do the same thing, as we haven't really seen it in either book yet (minus one example from Hoid), or perhaps they accomplish similar effects but with completely different methods. And, as Shardlet has pointed out we're not 100% sure it even is called "Lightweaving" on Yolen or not. Anyways, suffice to say that I've noticed it as a bit of an oddity for the moment, but it remains to be seen. Heck, my only info that Hoid actually has Lightweaving (besides his own example) is from his entry on Coppermind, which may have just used the word "Lightweaving" because it's the only semi-known thing that may produce that affect.

We actually do know that they do the same thing, as I mention above they are both illusion magics. I just don't see the problem here so I'm probably really bad at explaining this. It makes perfect sense to me for them both to be called Lightweaving.

I'm going to disagree with Shardlet on us not knowing whether it is called "Lightweaving" on Yolen. The working title for the sequel to The Liar of Partinel (Hoid's backstory book which takes place pre-Shattering on Yolen and so before Rosharan Lightweaving could exist) is/was The Lightweaver of Rens.

 

Oh I never doubted that a shard can grant these powers. I was merely stating that the two things suggested - Hoid asking Ruin/Preservation for Feruchemy on Yolen before the split/before they moved to another world, and the fact that Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemelurgy only came about as a result of Ruin/Preservation interacting with Scadrial - are contradictory. I'm sure he could have went to Scadrial once Ruin/Preservation/Harmony Sazed was there and ask for it then, OR if those powers are completely tied to a Shard and NOT the interaction of the Shards+Planet then he could have asked for the powers in Yolen, pre-Shard migration. Sorry if my wording before was a bit confusing.

This is kind of my fault, what I was trying to get across was that Hoid would have needed to ask for the "gene therapy" after Ruin and Preservation settled on Scadrial since it would not have been possible before then. We know he was on Scadrial during the the Classical period (before the Ascension of the Lord Ruler) because he was involved in some way with the Worldbringers (who were feruchemists) so it is possible. (But that is just a theory, and not even the one I espouse...)

 

Edit: It is also called Lightweaving in the excerpt we have of Liar (I have not personally read it beyond a quick word search).  (On a side note the Hoid that appears in that story is not the Hoid we are familiar with.  Midius is that Hoid.)

Edited December 5, 2013 by WeiryWriter

[Pechvarry]

We really need to ask Brandon that non-native Breath question again. His response is so oddly ambiguous. In a grammar way, not Aes Sedai.

Seriously, I think this is the 3rd time we've discussed how to read the sentence.

[Quiver]

Question about the Adonalsium and the number Sixteen. Sixteen is a pretty important number in the Cosmere, being the number of Shards, allomantic metals, etc.

Was Sixteen significant pre-shattering? Is that why sixteen shards were created, or is the number important because sixteen were made?

[WeiryWriter]

Question about the Adonalsium and the number Sixteen. Sixteen is a pretty important number in the Cosmere, being the number of Shards, allomantic metals, etc.

Was Sixteen significant pre-shattering? Is that why sixteen shards were created, or is the number important because sixteen were made?

That's a great question. We don't know the answer though. It is something that has been debated but we just don't know enough to reach a conclusion.

[Moogle]

Dumb question, I recall bringing it up before:

 

Did Rashek create the Pits of Hathsin? From my understanding, there was a metallic lake the Alendi saw, and I know that Ruin's Shardpool was a bunch of little puddles at the bottom of the Pits. It would make sense to me if the lake that Alendi and co. saw was Ruin's Shardpool and Rashek moved it, though I'm not entirely sure why he wouldn't use it first...

Edited December 31, 2013 by Moogle

[WeiryWriter]

Dumb question, I recall bringing it up before:

 

Did Rashek create the Pits of Hathsin? From my understanding, there was a metallic lake the Alendi saw, and I know that Ruin's Shardpool was a bunch of little puddles at the bottom of the Pits. It would make sense to me if the lake that Alendi and co. saw was Ruin's Shardpool and Rashek moved it, though I'm not entirely sure why he wouldn't use it first...

The metal lake was Ruin's Shardpool which Rashek moved underground, creating the Pits (I think). He didn't use it because it wasn't the Well of Ascension so he probably wouldn't have known he could "use" it and I don't think they got all that close to it in the first place?

[Moogle]

They were close enough that it was apparently not physically impossible to take a sample of its waters, so I'm not entirely sure of that explanation. Good to know that the lake was, in fact, a Shardpool and that I wasn't going crazy.

[deef0000dragon1]

i know that this is rather general of a q, but what books include the shards in brandons writing, or rather are linked to the cosmere. i know stormlight and mistborn, but what others. i feel that i am missing something when i check my knowledge compared to what i have read here and in some other places. thanks.

[WeiryWriter]

i know that this is rather general of a q, but what books include the shards in brandons writing, or rather are linked to the cosmere. i know stormlight and mistborn, but what others. i feel that i am missing something when i check my knowledge compared to what i have read here and in some other places. thanks.

 

This might help you, scroll down and there's a table the lists the current, and some future, cosmere books.

 

For now there's Elantris, the Mistborn series, Warbreaker, The Stormlight Archive, The Emperor's Soul (a novella), and Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell (a short story/novellete?).

Edited January 19, 2014 by WeiryWriter

[Moogle]

i know that this is rather general of a q, but what books include the shards in brandons writing, or rather are linked to the cosmere. i know stormlight and mistborn, but what others. i feel that i am missing something when i check my knowledge compared to what i have read here and in some other places. thanks.

 

Take a look at the Coppermind article on it! http://coppermind.net/wiki/Cosmere

 

The released novels and their Shards are:

• Ruin & Preservation: Mistborn trilogy, Alloy of Law
• Endowment: Warbreaker, available for free (never named in the book)
• Devotion & Dominion: Elantris, Emperor's Soul (though they are never named in the actual book)
• Honor & Cultivation & Odium: Stormlight Archive

A good browsing of the Coppermind articles and the WOT theory interview database (http://www.theoryland.com/wheel-of-time-interview-search.php and http://www.theoryland.com/listintv.php) will also bring you up to date on most things.

[daniel4165]

So sorry to bother everyone, the questions I have asked have probably been answered quite a few times, but I just can't seem to find it! So here are a few questions have always wondered about, and hopefully you guys can be awesome enough to answer it  

 

1) How do the immortal words work? Does speaking them = Powerup?

 

I remember distinctly that Kaladin seemed to have a powerup moment after speaking the second ideal of the knights radiant, and it seems that he has a few more forgotten words which would be revealed in later in the series.

 

2) Can splintered Shards such as Honor be restored? Or is it splintered forever? And what happens when a Shard is splintered?

 

Do splintered Shards work like Preservation's Body in the Mistborn Trilogy, whereby fragments of the power are released around the world where the Shards reside? Or is it simply the fact that the overall power of the Shard remains but split around the numerous denizens of the world itself, and can never be restored into an entire Shard again?

 

3) Is it possible to gain more than one type of power? Could a Worldhopper could gain both Allomancy and Surgebinding, or are they stuck with only one type of power due to limitations of their physical self?

[Moogle]

1) How do the immortal words work? Does speaking them = Powerup?

 

I remember distinctly that Kaladin seemed to have a powerup moment after speaking the second ideal of the knights radiant, and it seems that he has a few more forgotten words which would be revealed in later in the series.

 

Speaking and understanding the Ideals seems to make Stormlight more efficient for you. If you want a metaphysical explanation, we can guess that each Ideal brings you closer to your spren and Honor/Cultivation, which lets them bond a little more tightly to you and give you a little more Investiture.

 

 

2) Can splintered Shards such as Honor be restored? Or is it splintered forever? And what happens when a Shard is splintered?

 

Do splintered Shards work like Preservation's Body in the Mistborn Trilogy, whereby fragments of the power are released around the world where the Shards reside? Or is it simply the fact that the overall power of the Shard remains but split around the numerous denizens of the world itself, and can never be restored into an entire Shard again?

 

Splintered Shards can be restored. We don't know how. We don't know how to Splinter one, either, though Shardic Paradox theory is the best thing I've found there. You get a Shard to go against its own Intent (force Preservation to ruin things) and the resulting backlash to its intent shatters it into smaller, more numerous intents that we'd call Splinters. Splinters are intelligent things like spren/Seons, though there's some disagreement on what exactly is meant there.

 

One of the problems with Splintering a Shard is that it releases a lot of power. This makes Shadesmar dangerous, though on Roshar, the spren act as a relief valve. (My interpretation of this is that the unbound Investiture finds new forms and latches on to them, creating spren. This provides the 'release valve' that Brandon says Roshar has but Sel/Elantris does not.)

 

 

3) Is it possible to gain more than one type of power? Could a Worldhopper could gain both Allomancy and Surgebinding, or are they stuck with only one type of power due to limitations of their physical self?

 

Hemalurgy means you can get all the powers you could ever want. But the answer also seems to be yes in the case of some systems. Allomancy is genetic, so you can't get that if you weren't born on Scadrial, but Nalthis (Warbreaker's world) lets you Awaken things if you obtain other people's Breath. Whether or not a spren could bond someone like Wit is up for debate. I'd say that it's unlikely but theoretically possible.

 

Hoid has Feruchemy. We don't know how.

[skaa]

Hey guys, do we have WoB about the time measurement system on Roshar? Cheese Ninja says that there are 20 hours in a Rosharan day, but I'd also like to know the exact number of minutes in an hour, and hopefully the number of seconds in a minute as well.

 

I'm asking this because I wanted to try deciphering the significance of Cusicesh's appearance schedule. How many minutes have passed between midnight and "seven forty-six in the morning" on Roshar? Or seconds? I hope that might give us a clue.

Edited February 24, 2014 by skaa

[Shardlet]

Check out these posts for our best information on the subject that I know of:

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5854-setting-limits-on-the-size-of-roshar-the-planet-and-roshar-the-continent/?p=93412

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5641-rosharan-calendar-and-character-ages/?p=89660

 

Cheese is our resident Rosharan calendar and time guru also.  His info is likely to be the most comprehensive and accurate.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Shardlet

[Teccam]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but I've seen a couple references to there being WoB that Roshar's highstorms are somehow similar/related to Scadrial's mists (presumably, in that each is tied to a Shard). But I haven't been able to actually find any direct source, just allusions to Brandon supposedly confirming it. For example, this post by Gloom from last October.

Does anyone have a link to the direct WoB on this?

[Moogle]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but I've seen a couple references to there being WoB that Roshar's highstorms are somehow similar/related to Scadrial's mists (presumably, in that each is tied to a Shard). But I haven't been able to actually find any direct source, just allusions to Brandon supposedly confirming it. For example, this post by Gloom from last October.

Does anyone have a link to the direct WoB on this?

 

Here you go:

 

Wetlander: So is that like the mists and the Well?  Are they…

 

A: They are not, because they have not attained self-awareness.  But, the Seons are self-aware.  So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there.  Those were already splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own.  So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense?  You have seen other splinters.

 

Wetlander: Are the highstorms related to the splintering of Honor? (Brandon spoke over the word Honor in starting his response)

 

A: The highstorms are more related to the mist from Mistborn which terminology we have not discussed yet. (also affirmed the well as being similar).  You have seen splinters quite a bit on various planets.

 

(source)

[Teccam]

Here you go:

(source)

Perfect. Thank you, Moogle! Edited February 25, 2014 by Teccam

[Cromptj]

Does atium do anything if swallow it but cannot burn it?

[PorridgeBrick]

I've been wondering this, also. As parallel to Lerasium, it seems like it should, but I also think that would be indicated in the books.

[Swimmingly]

However, why would a non-allomancer ingest it?

[ZeldaDad]

Children eat things they shouldn't all the time. Also... shiny!

[Swimmingly]

"Mommy is very upset with you. That piece of metal was worth the same as our house, Jimmy."

[ZeldaDad]

Although on a real note, could a child (like 3 years old or something) become a Mistborn using Lerasium? I know you usually have to Snap first, but would have be considered snapping? 

[Swimmingly]

Yeah, I think so. Elend hadn't Snapped, had he?