The Surge Regrowth and Kaladin's Various Powers

[KasA97]

I am sorry if something similar has been posted already, but I have a few questions about the surge Regrowth and Kaladin in general. Szeth's seemed to imply, in his conversation with Taravangian that Knights Radiant had the ability to heal Shard-severed limbs.  Taravangian placates Szeth by saying one of the Honorblades that allow Regrowth must have been stolen.  My question is: if healing Shard-severed limbs requires Regrowth, how can Kaladin have done it? Is Kaladin somehow different than other Radiants (as Sanderson sometimes seems to imply)?  Kaladin also seems to have the ability to ride the storms and he also has glimpsed Shadesmar, albeit breifly.  Is Kaladin more that he seems, or am I just reading into the text too much?

Edited September 4, 2014 by KasA97

[Khyrindor]

I'm thinking it's Syl that's special. The only real evidence is about how important she was to the Stormfather. 

 

You may be on to something. Szeth even says in the prologue of WoK that Shardblades wouldn't heal wounds from a Shardblade.

 

Have an upvote.

[Patrick Star]

It's pretty tough to say right now.  We haven't seen any other radiants get their limbs severed, or if Hobber will recover.

 

And if Kaladin is special, I'd say that it's him AND Syl.  Child of Tanavest, and all that.

[Aonar]

I think (*Disclaimer: Whenever I say 'I think,' I mean, 'my current crackpot theory is that' *) this has something to do with the mysterious lines that connect certain Radiant Orders. The idea has been brought up by others before I believe, (although for the life of me I can't figure out where) but I think that these lines indicate certain passive powers that are shared by certain Orders. We have no real evidence to support this, but I think the Edgedancers/Truthwatchers control over Progression makes their natural healing factor more effective than the other Radiants. The Windrunners, for some reason, share this, and this power is only granted by a Nahel Bond, not an Honourblade.

 

*Ahem.* Now, all crackpot theories aside, the simpler and far more likely solution is that the Nahel Bond grants a superior healing factor from holding Stormlight when compared to that of your average Joe with an Honourblade (which is suggested in the books), and that this disadvantage can be worked around with the use of the Progression Surge. Not as fun as the above theory or the idea of Kal or Syl having special powers for some reason, but Occam's Razor says this is more likely.

Edited September 4, 2014 by AonarFaileas

[BlackYeti]

I thought that it was well established that the Honourblades consume Stormlight held by the user and that this means that those using an Honourblade to get their abilities, could not use enough of their Stormlight towards healing to heal limbs severed by a Shardblade. Since those with a Nahel Bond do not have this restriction, they can heal from this sort of wound.

Edited September 4, 2014 by BlackYeti

[Lightsworn Panda]

In Kaladin's air-fight with Szeth, Szeth heals himself from the injuries inflicted upon him by Kaladin's Syl-Blade. Considering how he didn't have the Blade of Regrowth and instead had some other blade, I'm assuming that Surgebinders, or at least Honourblade holders can heal Shardblade inflicted injuries.

[Observer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Szeth doesn't actually ever heal a shardblade wound. In fact, he mentions that it's impossible during his first interlude in Way of Kings, and Brandon has said that he can't, largely because he does not think he can. Honorblades grant far weaker abilities to normal people who wield them, whereas a Knight Radiant gets the full package. and can easily shrug off a Shardblade wound. Szeth saw Kaladin heal, and drew the natural conclusion that he was facing an actual Surgebinder. Vargo calmed him by saying he had the Shardblade of Regrowth, the weakened abilities of which adding on to the weakened healing would likely be able to regrow a severed limb.

 

Sound about right?

[Moogle]

I am sorry if something similar has been posted already, but I have a few questions about the surge Regrowth and Kaladin in general. Szeth's seemed to imply, in his conversation with Taravangian that Knights Radiant had the ability to heal Shard-severed limbs.  Taravangian placates Szeth by saying one of the Honorblades that allow Regrowth must have been stolen.  My question is: if healing Shard-severed limbs requires Regrowth, how can Kaladin have done it?

 

You're misinterpreting what Taravangian was saying, I think. Szeth went to Taravangian, and said "this guy healed a Shardblade-severed limb, he must be a Radiant!" (Szeth's assumption: Radiants can heal that, which is true as we know from Kaladin) to which Taravangian replied "Oh, no, it was totally an Honorblade granting Regrowth, trust me" (which was also a possibility, if ridiculously unlikely). Szeth was not thinking clearly, and Taravangian was lying through his teeth. Szeth was willing to latch on to the excuse so he didn't have to accept what he did.

 

Is Kaladin somehow different than other Radiants (as Sanderson sometimes seems to imply)?  Kaladin also seems to have the ability to ride the storms and he also has glimpsed Shadesmar, albeit breifly. 

 

The Stormfather says men before Kaladin previously rode the storms, so I don't think he's special. Viewing Shadesmar is also nothing special:

As to the other orders that were inferior in this visiting of the far realm of spren, the Elsecallers were prodigiously benevolent, allowing others as auxiliary to their visits and interactions; though they did never relinquish their place as prime liaisons with the great ones of the spren; and the Lightweavers and Willshapers both also had an affinity to the same, though neither were the true masters of that realm.

 

The three Orders mentioned here were very talented with Shadesmar, but the other orders still had 'inferior' abilities regarding it, which presumably allowed them glimpses into it on rare occasions.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Moogle

[BlackYeti]

In Kaladin's air-fight with Szeth, Szeth heals himself from the injuries inflicted upon him by Kaladin's Syl-Blade. Considering how he didn't have the Blade of Regrowth and instead had some other blade, I'm assuming that Surgebinders, or at least Honourblade holders can heal Shardblade inflicted injuries.

 

In The Way of Kings it explicitly states that this is not the case:

 

The tempest within Szeth gave him many advantages -- including the ability to quickly recover from small wounds. But it would not restore limbs killed by a Shardblade.

The Way of Kings, Tor Hardcover, page 30

 

Szeth is able to heal himself here because Kaladin didn't hit the bone, and therefore didn't kill any of Szeth's limbs.

[Dellexe]

RANDOM CRACK THEORY TIME!

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Syl is actually a very special type of Spren that has the ability to bestow all Surgebindings unto a human. She is an Honorspren-a very distinctive name. They are cousins to Windspren, which is why Kaladin received Windrunner powers first and most easily. Also, in an interview, Sanderson starts to say that Windspren give Windrunner powers, but quickly revises it to say that Honorspren give Windrunner powers. Which they would give, because they give all the Surgebindings. Kaladin also describes his healing of the Shardblade cut as pushing the Stormlight into his limb, which sounds similar to how he describes using the Surge of Adhesion, and pushing the Stormlight out of himself.

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CRACK THEORY OVER. RESUME YOUR FORUM BROWSING.

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In all seriousness, more likely the Honorblade doesn't heal as well as a real Nahel bond, and that is why Szeth couldn't heal a Shardblade wound but Kaladin could.

[KasA97]

I suppose my problem is that Kaladin has access to an ability when he does not have access to the Surge that grants that ability. Well, I'm assuming he doesn't have access...

 

 

RANDOM CRACK THEORY TIME!

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-

Syl is actually a very special type of Spren that has the ability to bestow all Surgebindings unto a human.

 

That is a badass theory. If this turns out to be true, I don't believe it would be because Syl is a honorspren.  She speaks as though there are more honorspren than just her and to think there can be several or many all-Surge-granting spren is a little far fetched.  However, she does seem to be close to the Stormfather, and her memories may not have come back fully.  Maybe she is a higher order of honorspren or something else entirely which would make her special.

Edited September 4, 2014 by KasA97

[Seonid]

I think that the simplest answer is this:

 

Stormlight grants healing.

 

Szeth does not believe that his Stormlight-healing can heal Shardblade-severed wounds.

     Therefore, he can't. (As per Word of Brandon)

 

Kaladin has no such pre-conditioned beliefs.

     Therefore, he can use his Stormlight-healing to heal Shardblade-severed wounds.

 

The surge Regrowth has nothing to do with it, although it does allow you to project your healing onto somebody else. I see that as its primary function.

 

In addition, Szeth, who doesn't believe that Honorblade holders with Stormlight can heal that (although he does believe that Radiants can heal it, see his interaction with Taravangian) believes that an Honorblade conferring Regrowth will overcome that disadvantage for an Honorblade holder.

[maxal]

I think that the simplest answer is this:

 

Stormlight grants healing.

 

Szeth does not believe that his Stormlight-healing can heal Shardblade-severed wounds.

     Therefore, he can't. (As per Word of Brandon)

 

Kaladin has no such pre-conditioned beliefs.

     Therefore, he can use his Stormlight-healing to heal Shardblade-severed wounds.

 

The surge Regrowth has nothing to do with it, although it does allow you to project your healing onto somebody else. I see that as its primary function.

 

In addition, Szeth, who doesn't believe that Honorblade holders with Stormlight can heal that (although he does believe that Radiants can heal it, see his interaction with Taravangian) believes that an Honorblade conferring Regrowth will overcome that disadvantage for an Honorblade holder.

 

Brilliantly put.

 

I do not think Kaladin nor Syl are special: they are just your every day Windrunner and his spren. I just happens that honorspren answer to the Stormfather, just like Windle seems to answer to the Nightwatcher.

 

Kal's abilities are part of the every Radiant combo: he can heal injuries done to himself, including shard wounds, but he cannot heal others as he does not have the surge of Progression. Speaking of which, I am keen to see Renarin getting his hand into learning how to heal. I've got a feeling he won't be running short on patients...

[11thorderknight]

I'm pretty sure it's simply that Szeth's stormlight healing is far less efficient than a true Surgebinder's, and therefore isn't capable of healing Shardblade wounds. (Or maybe it is? After all, it's not like Szeth has ever had one up until his duel with Kaladin at the end, so how would he know...) This is just one example of how his stormlight use is far less efficient than Kaladin's - he remarks that it will take him hours to heal the broken jaw that Gavilar gave him, while we see Kaladin, Shallan and Jasnah all heal near-instantaneously from deadly wounds. 

[Sitroentje]

Hey, I'm new here and English isn't my first language, so please ignore any mistakes.

 

Personally I thought it was because Szeth doesn't have a shardblade, he has an honourblade. Apparantly limbs severed by honourblades can be healed, while limbs severed by shardblades (alive or dead) cannot be healed. Except perhaps by feruchemists and by the Regrowth surge.

 

This way, it would just be another difference between honourblades and shardblades, instead of something special with Kaladin or Syl.

[BreathTaker]

I thought you said English wasn't your first language. Your grammar is better than most people who have been speaking English their whole life. Have an Upvote. 

 

I think it's all about perspective as mentioned above, plus Kal actually having a real Nahel bond which makes his Stormlight more efficient. 

Szeth "knows" he can't heal a Shardblade wound plus he can't hold as much Stormlight so he can't heal. Kal is very efficient and figures he can heal so he does. sure it takes a lot of Light but it happens. 

 

Also, Tar is a manipulative sack of Chull Dung to begin with, what makes you think he would continue that streak?

[jefftucker0525]

 

Posted Today, 10:00 AM

Hey, I'm new here and English isn't my first language, so please ignore any mistakes.

 

Personally I thought it was because Szeth doesn't have a shardblade, he has an honourblade. Apparantly limbs severed by honourblades can be healed, while limbs severed by shardblades (alive or dead) cannot be healed. Except perhaps by feruchemists and by the Regrowth surge.

 

This way, it would just be another difference between honourblades and shardblades, instead of something special with Kaladin or Syl.

 

 

I dont think that there is anything so fundamentally different between Shardblades and Honorblades that a wound from one can be healed and another cant. Both kill the soul of a person/creature/thing and so the process for healing would be the same. The obvious answer that has already pointed out is the matter of perception. Another thing that has been pointed out is the inefficiency of Honorblades to channel Stormlight, these 2 things together seem, to me atleast, to solve the issue. Szeth knows that Honorblades channel Stormlight less efficiently than a Shardblade and that only a KR could heal a Shardblade wound because of their abilities to channel Stormlight more efficeiently. This is the basis of his perception that only a KR could heal the wound Kal received. He also knows that Proggression allows healing and so assumes that Mr.T must be right, plus his desire to believe that what is being said is true.

 

 

 

Unrelated, Syl is definitely very special. We know from WoB that she is a pre-recreance Spren, which has to be so rare that it is special to say the least. 

 

 

Lastly, Kal Dell, can you please provide the quote were Brandon begins to say Windspren make a Windrunner? i think that would be very interesting and i havent seen it before. Thank you.

Edited September 5, 2014 by jefftucker0525

[WeiryWriter]

Unrelated, Syl is definitely very special. We know from WoB that she is a pre-recreance Spren, which has to be so rare that it is special to say the least.

 

Do you have a citation for that?

[jefftucker0525]

 

 

Do you have a citation for that?

 

 

It was awhile ago and i cant find the quote. Sorry

[maxal]

It was awhile ago and i cant find the quote. Sorry

 

I am not sure we ever official proof of this... There has been speculation that Syl is indeed a Pre-Recreance spren, but as far as I know it has never been confirmed. The clues are there though, so I am quite sure it is the case. However, I do would not say this makes her "special": she is your everyday honorspren, it just happens she an older one.

[jefftucker0525]

I remember the quote was asking about Syls age and Brandon said she was a few thousand years old. Im not very good at finding quotes so sorry about saying "theirs a WoB about that" but never having it to back what i say.

 

Also, Syl being very old does make her special, because not many other Spren will be alive that will be able to remember that far back and she might be able to help new KR find out what they can do based off her memories once she gets all of them back. I atleast, think this is enough to deem her as special.

Edited September 7, 2014 by jefftucker0525

[hoser]

I am not sure we ever official proof of this... There has been speculation that Syl is indeed a Pre-Recreance spren, but as far as I know it has never been confirmed. The clues are there though, so I am quite sure it is the case. However, I do would not say this makes her "special": she is your everyday honorspren, it just happens she an older one.

 

In tWoK, Syl claims to have helped men kill before.  I don't see how she could not have been a pre-recreance honorspren that had had a bond.  I assume that she was just not bonded at the time of the Recreance.  I think that's why she saw the need to bond despite the Stormfather's prohibition.

“I thought you didn’t like killing.”

“I hate it,” she said, growing more translucent. “But I’ve helped men kill before.”

Kaladin froze on the ladder. “What?”

“It’s true,” she said. “I can remember it, just faintly.”

“How?”

“I don’t know.” She grew paler . “I don’t want to talk about it. But it was right to do. I feel it.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (pp. 604-605). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

[Sylvan]

 

“Ha!” Rock said, stuck to the ground, splayed with arms to the sides. “I almost had you. Slippery as a fifth son, you are!”

 

“Storms, Rock,” Kaladin said. “What I wouldn’t do to get you on the battlefield. You are wasted as a cook.”

 

“You don’t like the food?” Rock asked, laughing. “I will have to try something with more grease. This thing will fit you! Grabbing you was like trying to keep my hands on a live lakefish! One that has been covered in butter! Ha!”

 

Words of Radiance, Chapter 12: Hero

 

 

Regrowth... 

 

Awesomeness...

 

 

Syl ≈ Sylvan → deity or spirit of the woods → related with Cultivation?

 

Syl ≈ "Twinborn"? related with the Nightwatcher and the Stormfather?

Edited October 25, 2015 by Sylvan

[Charononus]

Regrowth... 

 

Awesomeness...

 

 

Syl ≈ Sylvan → deity or spirit of the woods → related with Cultivation?

 

Syl ≈ "Twinborn"? related with the Nightwatcher and the Stormfather?

I think you're reading too much into this.  If you've ever tried to grab and restrain something or someone that is really dexterous,  (my experience is from working with animals) it is like Rock describes. It's just the dexterity of a windrunner filled with stormlight.

[Battar]

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7197-syl-but-ive-helped-men-kill-before/

 

This thread gives some good evidence for this theory, but it isn't a straight up WoB that she is pre-Recreance.