Tulir Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 In a Kelsier-Moraine battle, Moraine would win quite easily as soon as she felt in danger. Allomancy can't stop or predict your head bing crushed by air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I don't know. All Kel has to do is convince her he won't hurt her and then ninja-mistborn-surprise-attack. Don't give up on the Survivor too quickly! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Balefire is pretty much Moraine's win button in whatever matchup occurs. Though Kelsier might be able to keep her from holding onto Saidar by application of zinc, which could tilt the balance in his favour if he pulls it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyssie95 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Haven't read WoT yet *duck head in shame*, but from what I know you do have to be concentrated and stuff when you use the One Power, right? I'm guessing the emotional metals will play a large role in this little spar. BY the way, what the heck is with the balefire?! I know what it does, it just seems a tad overused in these cage matches. Seems to me something as powerful as balefire should either be really hard to use or REALLY costly... ps, my reading of the series starts in the fall, so I won't have to wait *too* long for the final volume. Edited March 21, 2012 by lyssie95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Balefire has hideous consequences for the entire universe over the long term when used too much, but Moraine has demonstrated her willingness to use it when backed into a corner on two seperate occasions and it doesn't have immediate negative side effects. Basically, using too much Balefire makes space-time come apart at the seams, but too much is retroactively killing several million people last week, so people will use it if they really need to. Since Moraine can only manage enough to kill maybe a dozen people a few seconds ago, that's not too much of a hazard per use and it's utterly unstoppable. If she's losing, she will use it. Edited March 21, 2012 by name_here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I'm no WoT expert but I just wiki'ed it. Balefire burns holes in the Pattern of their world, if I'm understanding it right. Apparently whole cities burned in the Breaking and the whole Pattern almost broke down, until both sides agreed to stop using it. It appears to be the nuclear weapon of the WoT world. However I only made it to book 3 so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong Edit:I didn't mean to repeat name_here I posted just after him Edited March 21, 2012 by Windrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 in regards to emotional allomancy (and i think i touched on this last year), it depends on who they're up against. If it's a male user of the one power, they would be unaffected because males become completely emotionally unattached and unaware of their emotions while using it. With women, the one power fills them with joy and happiness, so it's kinda hard to say how emotional allomancy would work on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Male channelers are insulated from their emotions, not immune. Both genders will lose control of their channeling if they experience sufficent emotional extremes and can no longer hold onto the One Power. Now, it is something of an open question if emotional Allomancy can actually cause that without an Enhancement metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 That's actually a really interesting question. Does Kelsier have access to duralumin or bendalloy in the write up? It's a moot point though, the Cage Match is a popularity contest but if the fight were real it'd be cool to see. The write ups are awesome though. Kelsier and Moirain have to fight! Brandon writing that would be incredibly awesome, although I have a sick feeling the Moraine may have this in the bag. I think it probably comes down to Emotional Allomancy and how it works with Channeling. I don't have enough knowledge about Channeling to draw any conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Male channelers are insulated from their emotions, not immune. Both genders will lose control of their channeling if they experience sufficent emotional extremes and can no longer hold onto the One Power. Now, it is something of an open question if emotional Allomancy can actually cause that without an Enhancement metal. I honestly can't think of any times where emotional distress has caused anyone to lose hold of the power. Is there one i'm overlooking? The only times someone has been overrun with emotions while channeling that i can think of are: the times rand used callandor (stone of tear and against the seanchan), and those instances ended up very badly for everyone who wasn't him, not made him lose his hold on the power. By contrast, the only times i can think of where people actually lost hold of the power while holding it was when they were unable to concentrate at all when forkroot is used, when nynaeve is under water and drowning, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Rand loses Sadin due to being French-kissed in book 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Rand loses Sadin due to being French-kissed in book 4. hmm....are you sure? The only reference i can find to rand kissing in book 4 is with elayne in chapter 8 and it appears that part of it was told from elayne's perspective. I'm away from book right now (at work) so I can't really look into it, but that could stem from being shocked and thus losing concentration as opposed to being overwhelmed with a particular emotion (at least in so far as allomancy could do) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironeyes Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Shock could be an emotion. I bet Kell could Riot that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Oh, sorry, I was thinking of book 5, not 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhalagirl Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 If you can French-kiss a pretty girl and still hold on to saidin, then you're doing it wrong. As for Moiraine and Kelsier's fights, it's time to call in the re-inforcements. (A.K.A. my FB friends) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I think the other use of emotional allomancy would be in conincing Moiraine that kel is not a threat, if he soothed all feeling of being threatened then made sure she knew he wasn't a darkfriend then she can't attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyssie95 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I think the other use of emotional allomancy would be in convincing Moiraine that kel is not a threat, if he soothed all feeling of being threatened then made sure she knew he wasn't a darkfriend then she can't attack. That's true... depending on how overdone her little crisis is in this one, just convincing her he wasn't a threat might get him enough time to off her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hopefully they won't make her unable to use the power at all again (One of the smaller oversights I've seen but it still annoyed me) but as long as all she can do is trap him in air, he can still push/pull and all kinds of other things. I think it basically comes down to how much emotional allomancy can effect her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulir Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 When they come up against each other I am staying out of it because I like both Moraine and Kelsier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanist Lupus Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hopefully they won't make her unable to use the power at all again (One of the smaller oversights I've seen but it still annoyed me) but as long as all she can do is trap him in air, he can still push/pull and all kinds of other things. I think it basically comes down to how much emotional allomancy can effect her. And how much metal is in her Sa'angreal. If Kelsier can get it away from her, his chances go way up. Also, I wonder how atium would interact with channeling. thirdly, setting becomes very important. The more out in the open they are, the harder it will be for Kelsier to escape her weaves. If they fight in the mist, my money would be on Kelsier. Either way, Kelsier's called the Survivor for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Shock could be an emotion. I bet Kell could Riot that. i would say that shock would be a VERY hard emotion to riot (if you even could at all), since IIRC the emotion has to be all ready present in the first place before you can effect it with allomancy, Because shock shows up and is almost immediately gone, it's very short lived in general. Plus, reading an Aes Sedai to tell what emotion to sooth/riot would be very difficult since they are masters at keeping their composure (especially moraine) All in all, from a powers perspective, the one power would, IMO, easily beat allomancy. This is because the one power is HIGHLY flexible in what it can do, and almost instantaneous, where as allomancy has a very specific set of powers with very strict rules governing it. Because the one power has the ability to practically do ANYTHING, one who uses it will likely have a very strong advantage towards beating someone who has allomancy. A much more fair fight might be an elantrian vs a channeler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivertongue Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 i would say that shock would be a VERY hard emotion to riot (if you even could at all), since IIRC the emotion has to be all ready present in the first place before you can effect it with allomancy, Because shock shows up and is almost immediately gone, it's very short lived in general. Plus, reading an Aes Sedai to tell what emotion to sooth/riot would be very difficult since they are masters at keeping their composure (especially moraine) All in all, from a powers perspective, the one power would, IMO, easily beat allomancy. This is because the one power is HIGHLY flexible in what it can do, and almost instantaneous, where as allomancy has a very specific set of powers with very strict rules governing it. Because the one power has the ability to practically do ANYTHING, one who uses it will likely have a very strong advantage towards beating someone who has allomancy. A much more fair fight might be an elantrian vs a channeler. An Elantrian vs a channeler... it depends on where the fight takes place. If it happens on Sel, the Elantrian is screwed, as all the channeler needs to do is alter the landscape enough to break the Dor. Allomancy has essentially no chance against the One Power, for the very reasons Eerongal said. Allomancy is too limited, while the One Power is definitely not. Additionally, Moraine is one of the strongest Aes Sedai alive, with years more experience with her power than Kelsier. He's going to run out of metals before she runs out of the Power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think altering the landscape enough to break AonDor would be something only one of the really strong channelers could pull off, like Rand or Nyneave, or Lanfear. And even they would probably be stretching the limit, unless Callandor or the CK were involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think altering the landscape enough to break AonDor would be something only one of the really strong channelers could pull off, like Rand or Nyneave, or Lanfear. And even they would probably be stretching the limit, unless Callandor or the CK were involved. i dunno, rand or nyneave might be able to pull it off unaided. Afterall, lews therin drew in more power than he could hold and created the largest mountain known (in randland), dragonmount. And i'm pretty sure at this point, near the end, rand is equal to, if not more powerful than, lews therin. I'll bet either of them could split a large enough chasm in the ground...... Though, i'm relatively sure it wouldn't be something they would know or figure out during the battle. The only way that could be the way the fight ends is by accident. Edit: though, moraine probably couldnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 On the other hand, Moraine wears metal objects constantly, which is more or less a death sentence against an Allomancer even especially if they're locked in position. I mean, remember when Vin swatted a twenty-strong group of Hazekillers because one of them forgot to remove a metal belt buckle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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