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Isasik Shulin


Elwynn

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Alright, I think I'm going crazy. Would somebody get a hardback and help confirm/deny?

Open Shadesmar map...

Find Sea of Lost Lights

There's only one piece of 'land' near there...find the southwestern most point.

Now go straight south, seaching slowly. Can you make out something that looks like clouds surrounding a stick figure with a necktie? (Don't laugh...I'm serious) :blink:

Find Sea of Souls

Search the area south of writing...2 or 3 should jump right out at you.

In between Nexus of Truth and Nexus of Transition is another.

Touching the northwestern most point of where purelake is should be another.

Over near Dawn's Shadow is another.

Last time I was counting...it was upwards of a dozen that I could make out.

Seems like it's a symbol for something else...but I can't quite make out anything with the clouds.

Somebody please tell me I'm not seeing things.

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I can't see anything like that. But it might be due to a smaller map.

Can you screenshot it?

Also while I'm here, why is there a woman on the borders of that map. Is it just decoration? *peers closer* She seems to have one of those safe-hand cover things, so I'm guessing it is.

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  • 6 months later...

Also, I'll write this here, since I don't know that I wrote it elsewhere.

When I showed him the images, he smiled and nodded. He said that there is some significance to it, but it is also just an easter egg for us to find.

But Brandon was glad that it had been noticed, and said that there's quite a bit that is hidden in Way of Kings that he hasn't revealed yet.

(From the Mistborn RPG signing)

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  • 2 months later...
  • 4 months later...

Double post for new info:

 

Thanks to Khmauv, there is another symbol connection found.

 

chart crab.GIF  Wok Crab.GIF

 

 

Which is also the symbol surrounding the map of Kharbranth (in case you forgot).

 

karbranthborderlarge.PNG

 

 

If anyone has any idea how they could relate, feel free to speculate.

 

 

 

Aaaaannnnd I'm sick of trying to turn some pics I've edited and cropped into url's, so...

 

The creature on the back of the red cape on the cover art also seems to resemble the counterpart Order symbol that can be found inside the front cover. But it's quite a bit more of a stretch. Still looks similar to me.

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Do we know who the figure on the front is supposed to represent in-world? The cover art could be a hint as to that character's Order. I always thought it was Dalinar, but other than the fact that he's a Shardbearer on the Shattered Plains, I have no hard evidence to back that up.

Also, this thread is awesome. When I have more time to comb back over everything that's been posted so far, the upvotes will be flying. :D

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The differences look more stylistic than anything else, IMO. A stained glass window doesn't exactly have the same capability for displaying fine detail as embroidering or painting a banner, and even then, the in-world designer of the window obviously wanted to go with bolder shapes.

The overall shape of the symbol is close enough, though, for a connection between the two to be plausible. At least, that's my take on it.

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Here's a bigger version

v8kH62f.png

They're both crab-like and red, but none of the details seem to match up.

Since the symbol is on a map as well, it seems that it's an established one in-universe; I wouldn't expect a flag or banner to have so much variation.

Edited by Phantom Monstrosity
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Do we know who the figure on the front is supposed to represent in-world? The cover art could be a hint as to that character's Order. I always thought it was Dalinar, but other than the fact that he's a Shardbearer on the Shattered Plains, I have no hard evidence to back that up.

Also, this thread is awesome. When I have more time to comb back over everything that's been posted so far, the upvotes will be flying. :D

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that Brandon said that it is Dalinar but I don't find the source (only a post that says this too). Or is Dalinar the person in the distance. I can't remember :(. If anybody can help, I'd be grateful. 

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I remember Brandon saying it was Dalinar, as well.  That would make the figure in the distance Eshonai...correct?

 

Also, regarding the banner and the surge symbol: Brandon has done quite a bit of world building around the fact that details, names, and religions have changed over time.  For example, all of the Heralds names are slightly different in Kalak's chapter than they are written now. History is muddled and details surrounding events aren't even known anymore.

 

So it may not be too much of a stretch that whoever designed the banner had seen the crab-like surge symbol and just simply thought it looked like that creature and just ran with it. Or, over time, it changed ever so slightly, bit by bit, over the years to eventually become the "crab" drawing seen on the banner. 

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I remember Brandon saying it was Dalinar, as well.  That would make the figure in the distance Eshonai...correct?

I'm sure I heard it's Dalinar and Eshonai, but I can't find it either! I just spent 15 minutes too. This would be great in the FAQ if we can just find a source; it would save anyone else from having to do all this searching.
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Also, regarding the banner and the surge symbol: Brandon has done quite a bit of world building around the fact that details, names, and religions have changed over time.  For example, all of the Heralds names are slightly different in Kalak's chapter than they are written now. History is muddled and details surrounding events aren't even known anymore.

 

Also, Glyphs can be drawn in different ways artistically whilst retaining meaning.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that it's Dalinar on the cover. So whatever symbol is shown on his cape there, that could be a clue as to what Order he'll be in if he is, in fact, a future Radiant (though does that really need to be debated at this point?)

Re: the crab symbol - it very easily could have evolved over time. Also, PM, details being different is sort of the point of stylization. When an artist wants to put their own twist on a symbol or image, it's not uncommon for the artist to create a stylized version of it by adding/removing/changing details. For example, looking at the crab images, IF that's what going on here, we have a couple options:

  • The window image is a stylized version of the banner image - In this case, the window artist would have simplified the more detailed crab design into a bolder, more streamlined version that fits stylistically with the rest of the window.
  • The banner image is a stylized version of the window image - In this case, whoever made/designed that banner may have felt that the clean, almost simplistic lines of the window image weren't fitting with what they were trying to convey. Bold graphical elements are cool, but for a Highprince, something more regal and, well, fancy was desired. So the artist added details to enhance the original design and bring out the desired tone. Cosplayers do this all the time; google "Fancystuck" for examples.
  • Both the banner and the window images are stylized versions of an unknown base symbol - In this instance, there exists somewhere a happy medium between "bold and streamlined" and "fancy and regal", from which both artists derived their own interpretations.
I hope that clears things up as to what I meant by artistic stylization. Of course the details are going to be different; that's sort of the point of stylization in the first place. ;) What I'm seeing is that the core elements are similar enough that I think making a connection between the two is definitely a plausible thought process to have.
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They seem less similar than these two examples

The Nigerian Coat of Arms

Nigeria_Coat_of_Arms.jpg

The Pennsylvania State Flag

3429-004-8BAED29B.gif

I mean, if there was like, a pair of dots next to the banner crab or something, or if the symbol crab had actual pinchers that came around the front, I might be more convinced.

I mean, there are crustaceans everywhere. It makes sense for them to be as ubiquitous there as horses are on coats of arms IRL.

Edited by Phantom Monstrosity
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There are also documented meanings for every element that goes into a coat of arms. Just because two different governments decided they wanted a shield, a bird, and two horses on their coats of arms - probably for similar reasons, and probably completely independent of one another - doesn't render my point invalid.

Take away the fancy detailing of the crab on the banner, and what do you have? Same shape, same color, base lines that are strikingly similar. Is it possible that they're not related? Absolutely. But just because they aren't as identical as some of the examples here doesn't make the core similarities any less striking from an artistic standpoint. That's the only point that I was trying to make: it's plausible that they might be related.

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Alright, before I begin, keep in mind that I am a professional.

 

I can't say for certain whether they are the same or not, nor if they are meant to be the same. Allowing for stylistic differences, the general form is very similar. The image is an icon, a religious symbol if I'm not mistaken, and if you look at real-world religious symbols, you will see thousands of variation on the same initial concept. Crosses, Stars of David, Buddhas, etc. It's not a logo, with brand standards behind it that require specific ways in which it might be used. Icons are meant to stand for something specific, but can be open to interpretation by whomever is using them. This is why you might see slightly different 'Walk' signs when you cross the street, or different 'Caution, Wet Floor signs'.

 

Analyzing the two images, there are several aspects that are shared. The color, the general shape, and rather importantly, symmetry. The front pincers are different, but that's another stylistic element, and does not immediately mean the two images are not meant to be the same.

 

In regards to the coat of arms and the flag PM has posted... those two have far, far more differences between them then the crabs do. Use of color, of shape, of layout... and the example is completely different, as we're talking about the stylistic differences between two possibly similar images. The example you cite is of two images that were not designed to be similar, but follow a similar template.

 

Do I believe the two crabs are meant to be the same image? I can't say; it could go either way, as far as I'm concerned. The banner crab could very well be the personal symbol of the man wielding it. But considering the specific similarities in the designs, I would not rule the option that the banner image represents the same as the chart image.

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Here's all of them at the same rotation and roughly the same size

sbqsLH0.png

 

Analyzing the two images, there are several aspects that are shared. The color, the general shape, and rather importantly, symmetry. The front pincers are different, but that's another stylistic element, and does not immediately mean the two images are not meant to be the same.

I don't really think that 'symmetry' is really that significant. It's a crab. Crabs are symmetric.

When people are doing a design that incorporates crabs, they also tend to choose red for the color. At least, if doing a quick scan of google images is any indicator.

Also, I decided to rotate them both 180 degrees, because why not

LniZC0I.png

Edited by Phantom Monstrosity
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Thanks for the great references! With them all lined up like that, I can actually see the similarities a lot easier. Whether or not you think there's anything there, it's pretty neat to look at. I like seeing how the overall composition, line, and shape can still match up so nicely even though the details in the two images are completely different.

Like I said before, I'm not insisting that there has to be a connection here. I'm just saying that it's possible.

EDIT: Completely unrelated, but in your upside-down versions, it sort of makes the one on the left look like a funny hat rather than a crab. Maybe THAT'S the secret behind all of this! O__O

Don't mind me; I'm weird.

Edited by KChan
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Interim quote guy to the rescue! This is from the second bit of the Eshonai reading. Dalinar is the close figure, and Eshonai is the far figure.

I’ve been reading from the viewpoint of someone named Eshonai at other readings I’ve done last week. And Eshonai is Parshendi. If you’ve read the Way of Kings, those who have, Eshonai is actually the character on the cover. Someone wanna hold up Way of Kings? So one of those figures is Dalinar and the other is Eshonai, according to Michael Whalen. There is a scene where Dalinar raises his sword acrossed the chasm toward a Parshendi Shardbearer. And later on Dalinar faces this Parshendi Shardbearer and has a good old slogfest, near the end of the book, between two Shardbearers pounding on each other. And this character, I’ve always intended to, later on, get some viewpoints and I’ve been writing from her viewpoint in the second book.


 

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