Traveling inconsistencies

[Ironeyes]

I've noticed a small inconsistency in the first book that gets weirder every time I think about it. At the end, when Rand destroys all of those Trollocs, he gets there from the Eye of the World by just closing his eyes and wishing to be somewhere else. He does not mention a slash of light opening, or moving through anything, the way portals and deathgates work in later books. And, in the prologue, it sounds like Lews Therin does the same thing. Am I missing something, or is there another way to Travel that we don't know about?

[Aethling]

You meaning the scene right after he is fighting the forsaken?

[Ironeyes]

Yes. Directly after he learns to consciously channel.

[Link Von Kelsier Harvey]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness

I've always assumed it was this, but maybe there's an in-universe explanation I don't know about. I'm not exactly an expert.

[Aethling]

Rand has multiple ways to travel. He can skim, use the gates, or enter the dream. That one could also have had to do with the guy he was fighting. Then, it could also just be something that changed over the books.

As readers, we sometime lose sight of the enjoyment of the book and try to nitpick, everything. Now if it is a major factual or time error that is one thing. I am wrapping up a series where the author had a character leave the room twice before he came back. Stuff like this traveling, just do not sweat the small stuff. It could have even been related to where he was at the time. The eye was reputed to have major power. People tend to think differently at different times. Perhaps that is how Jordan originally planned traveling but changed his mind later

[Dexterryu]

I classify this similar to the EVENT that happened at the end of The Great Hunt with Rand fighting Ishameal in the sky. That was more of a wheel controlled event, similar to this.

Additionally, there is also the voice that Rand heard talking to him at the same time so it could have also been the creator directly influencing events.

[Terez]

Except that RJ confirmed that the Creator does not interfere. I think it was the Dark One. As for the traveling thing, RJ at least attempted to explain inconsistencies later, though I think he didn't imagine the gateway until later. When Lews Therin and Rand Traveled, the descriptions were not incredibly detailed, but when Ishamael Traveled, it was specifically described, and he did this shimmering and disappearing/reappearing act. RJ said this was an effect of True Power Traveling. I think it's a bit of a retcon, but we generally let it slide.

[nikomis]

I actually just found a place where it is referenced again. The Shadow Rising, Chapter 57, last page.

"Rhuidean. Yes. Of course. Rhuidean. How many weeks to the south? Yet he had done something once. If he could remember how..."

[Altonahk]

It could also be the sheer amount of power. I'm not certain if rand could repeat what he did with the Eye at the Gap using Callandor. It may be a form a traveling that uses FAR more of the power then he or any other Channeler has access to.

[Bunyod]

I've noticed a small inconsistency in the first book that gets weirder every time I think about it. At the end, when Rand destroys all of those Trollocs, he gets there from the Eye of the World by just closing his eyes and wishing to be somewhere else. He does not mention a slash of light opening, or moving through anything, the way portals and deathgates work in later books. And, in the prologue, it sounds like Lews Therin does the same thing. Am I missing something, or is there another way to Travel that we don't know about?

You may consider it as a side affect of sheer awesomeness of using the Eye of the World!

[ReaderAt2046]

I suspect that he's actually rewriting the Pattern. Basically, he takes the bit of Pattern that says "The Dragon is at the Eye of the World" and reweaves it to say "The Dragon is at Tarwin's Gap".

[Shuyinsan]

I suspect that he's actually rewriting the Pattern. Basically, he takes the bit of Pattern that says "The Dragon is at the Eye of the World" and reweaves it to say "The Dragon is at Tarwin's Gap".

I don't think that is the case, if this would be true then the whole purpose of the pattern would be useless. if Rand would find out how to do this or even do this at random he could either finish this whole thing and be done with it or break the whole world.

No I think this is just a early idea error too.

It's also not the true power, cause even in that shape in the Eye of the World Rand would've noticed it.

[Asha'man Logain]

I don't think that is the case, if this would be true then the whole purpose of the pattern would be useless. if Rand would find out how to do this or even do this at random he could either finish this whole thing and be done with it or break the whole world.

No I think this is just a early idea error too.

It's also not the true power, cause even in that shape in the Eye of the World Rand would've noticed it.

I think it is possible. If you'll recall ***(spoilers)*** Rand in a later book (consequently the pattern is thinner and in more danger of unraveling) is convinced, and convinces others that he can directly bend the pattern to his will. He says something close to: "Do you believe if I will it I can write you out of the pattern? Without channeling or doing anything?" Also, as the strongest of 3 ta'veren the pattern already bends around him and provides him with what and who he needs.

It may not be the mostlikely explaination but I do think it is A possiblity.

[Shuyinsan]

I think it is possible. If you'll recall ***(spoilers)*** Rand in a later book (consequently the pattern is thinner and in more danger of unraveling) is convinced, and convinces others that he can directly bend the pattern to his will. He says something close to: "Do you believe if I will it I can write you out of the pattern? Without channeling or doing anything?" Also, as the strongest of 3 ta'veren the pattern already bends around him and provides him with what and who he needs.

It may not be the mostlikely explaination but I do think it is A possiblity.

Hmm, I'm currently re-reading Towers of Midnight.

(started after my own post) and yes it seems the pattern is thinner. So you could be right on it.

Being Ta'veren maybe gives you certain powers maybe Rand knows of a way to bend it at his will indeed.

That sounds very plausible, but then again like I said If he could bend the pattern like that, why not bend it so that it makes him win? It must be difficult and dangerous.

It would also be very bad for the whole story I think.

It does make for an interesting idea though

[frozndevl]

As for what happened in TEOTW, I think that the difference in traveling was just literary inconsistency. I also think that Rand was just being menacing and having a show of bravado to intimidate with his threat of just erasing him from the pattern.

[Lady_Yasha]

I doubt literary inconsistency played a role here; RJ planned everything way too well to make such an easy mistake.

[frozndevl]

Here is an interesting discussion I've read before that includes some discussion about traveling. What it boils down to is the inconsistency could be:

1. Literary inconsitency
   
2. Traveling using the TP
   
3. The Eye of the World is in TAR, so Rand used "need" based relocation
   
4. Super special secret kind of other traveling that Lanfear / Ishy use sometimes
   

http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=58&theo=1404

Personally, I am a fan of the TAR connection as that could possibly explain how the Eye was wherever it needed to be.

Edit: Added the link I mentioned.

Edited October 11, 2012 by frozndevl

[Shuyinsan]

Here is an interesting discussion I've read before that includes some discussion about traveling. What it boils down to is the inconsistency could be:

1. Literary inconsitency
2. Traveling using the TP
3. The Eye of the World is in TAR, so Rand used "need" based relocation
4. Super special secret kind of other traveling that Lanfear / Ishy use sometimes

Personally, I am a fan of the TAR connection as that could possibly explain how the Eye was wherever it needed to be.

That TAR Theory does sound plausible and would make sens for most events during that part (like you said being wherever it needed to be).

The first theory could be true too, It was the first book lots of aspects still had to be defined (although Jordan was thorough)

the second theory - Rand would have to have the Dark One's permission on this (or so people say) we still don't know if the dark one wants that the last time rand used the TP agains Semirhage theories are because of his Link to moridin that he could access it. we still don't have a definitve answer as far as I know.

[ReaderAt2046]

I don't think that is the case, if this would be true then the whole purpose of the pattern would be useless. if Rand would find out how to do this or even do this at random he could either finish this whole thing and be done with it or break the whole world.

I was thinking that he could only do it because he was holding way more saidin than should be possible and he seemed to be channeling the Light/Creator directly. In other words, it's not something he could repeat except maybe with the Choedan Kal.

[Riddlesinthedark]

Here is an interesting discussion I've read before that includes some discussion about traveling. What it boils down to is the inconsistency could be:

1. Literary inconsitency
   
2. Traveling using the TP
   
3. The Eye of the World is in TAR, so Rand used "need" based relocation
   
4. Super special secret kind of other traveling that Lanfear / Ishy use sometimes
   

http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=58&theo=1404

Personally, I am a fan of the TAR connection as that could possibly explain how the Eye was wherever it needed to be.

Edit: Added the link I mentioned.

Well its always been in the Blight, in the Mountain passes and valleys. It might just be that geography is a little fluid up there near Shayol Ghul

But if I remember correctly, one of the Forsaken/Dreamwalkers says outright that people can be pulled into T'A'R.

And that happens in the very next book's prologue, with all the DarkFriends. None of them seemed to be flickering from what I can recall, so they must have been there in the flesh.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Voldy

[Lady_Yasha]

Well its always been in the Blight, in the Mountain passes and valleys. It might just be that geography is a little fluid up there near Shayol Ghul

But if I remember correctly, one of the Forsaken/Dreamwalkers says outright that people can be pulled into T'A'R.

And that happens in the very next book's prologue, with all the DarkFriends. None of them seemed to be flickering from what I can recall, so they must have been there in the flesh.

The most practised with Tel'aran'rhiod can hold their image indefinitely. I think the reference to being pulled into the World of Dreams is that people's minds can be forcibly pulled there, not their physical selves.

I have a problem with the T'A'R theory in that physical things can't move through that realm (in my opinion). The Eye, being of the Power, could exhibit properties of Travelling. Rand could appear at the Pass because he unconsciously Travelled while channelling the Eye's power.

[Shuyinsan]

didn't Rand open a portal to TAR ? or at least he was there in the flesh and found out about Aes Sedai in Salidar

[Lady_Yasha]

Oh yeah I forgot about that. That was Fires of Heaven when he chased Rahvin. OK, but I still hold that Rand's shift at the Eye isn't illogical, what with Travelling being an instantaneous form of travel. Likely, the Eye bestows knowledge of all the possibilities of Weaves on the holder for a short time.

[Riddlesinthedark]

The most practised with Tel'aran'rhiod can hold their image indefinitely. I think the reference to being pulled into the World of Dreams is that people's minds can be forcibly pulled there, not their physical selves.

I have a problem with the T'A'R theory in that physical things can't move through that realm (in my opinion). The Eye, being of the Power, could exhibit properties of Travelling. Rand could appear at the Pass because he unconsciously Travelled while channelling the Eye's power.

Yeah, but why would those DarkFriends be practiced in TAR?

Also recall that when Rahvin and Rand went through, neither even thought of holding their forms, just of reality warping around "them"(*Rands POV). Contrast that with the browbeating we had received over the previous books about how hard it is, when stressed, to do so.

I'm still a fan of a little bit of early installment weirdness, but it has piqued my interest and I might ask this question at the midnight release at BYU.