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kari-no-sugata

Keeping the Oathgate running

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This is something I only recently noticed. I don't remember it being discussed before but maybe I forgot/missed it.

 

Anyway: at the end of WoR when Dalinar goes to the top of Urithiru for the first time he looks down and sees the Oathgate being activated. However, the only known Radiants at Urithiru are one floor down. So, either Shallan or Kaladin would have had to lend their Shardblade to someone down below, since there's no other way known to activate it. With Kaladin leaving and Dalinar not getting a living Shardblade then Shallan's the only one left we know for sure has one - I guess we'll have to wait and see just how far Renarin has progressed. He seems fairly new to it all so I'm guessing he's a beginner.

 

It would be interesting to know if Shallan can Lightweave etc with Pattern elsewhere. I would be surprised if it made no difference. I guess in an emergency she can summon him back though. All this and the logical need for having backup living Shardblades could end up putting Renarin under pressure to "level up" quickly.

 

Another problem for those at Urithiru could be lack of Stormlight, if it's hard to re-charge spheres up there. Maybe there's some lower levels in Urithiru that are actually low enough to catch the Highstorms and so allow gems to be infused again. Would seem like a design flaw otherwise. If there's no levels low enough did the old inhabitants entirely rely on outsiders? I guess for now they could pack up all the gems together, go through the gate to the Shattered Plains and charge them there - but that has a lot of risks.

 

If they get multiple gates open they could do some neat tricks though, when re-charging spheres: when a Highstorm is coming, go to most eastern gate with all your gems, get them charged, go back to Urithiru, quickly use the Stormlight in the gems, then open a gate more to the west and take the gems there, so that you can re-charge them again from the same storm. You could maybe get 3-4x the Stormlight per Highstorm that way - so long as you have something useful to use it on quickly.

 

 

PS Who do you think will be put in charge of of all the bridgemen while Kaladin is away? I'd bet on Renarin.

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It was brought up a while back.  No hard and fast conclusions were come to though at least a couple possibilities were brought up.  One was that were not sure exactly how long Dalinar was on top of that tower so it is possible that either Shallan or Kaladin had time to activate the Oathgate then get to the top using either the elevator or by flying up.  Another possibility was maybe the honor blades can function in that capacity.   I don't know if anyone ever asked Mr. Sanderson about it.

 

I personally find it unlikely that either Kaladin or Shallan could loan their blades out since to activate the gate you have to be on the other side and that would put their spren hundreds of miles away.  It has been strongly suggested that a Radiant's spren can't be that far from their bonded person because it might damage or weaken the bond.  The scene where Syl searched out a leaf of blackbane is a case in point.

Edited by Arondell
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But during that scene Kaladins bond wasn't as strong, its possible now that, since he has said the 3rd oath, distance is expanded. im not saying its a thing that can be done non-stop or for extended periods of time, but since he can summon Syl back to him at any time im guessing she can also be wherever she wants at any time instantly. She activates the gate independently then returns near him so as not to put stress on the Bond. Or he activated it and summoned her back when then the gate was no longer needed.

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Id like to think the honorblade can be used on the oathgate, would be unusual if KRs could use it but the Heralds cant. Though theres the matter of the Stone Shamans coming to reclaim Szeth's blade.

 

Are we certain that Urithiru dont get Highstorms? Or was it due to the Weeping not ending yet. Theoretically Dalinar could request Stormfather to provide them highstorms for charging up, though I would think they are just relying on the immigrants to bring in charged gems for now. :P

 

Jasnah could be on her way back to Urithiru to join them as well.

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I think the Radiants must have designed the city to be secure and self-sufficient.

 

Secure: I am sure there is way out apart from the Oathgate. I am thinking some secret passage deep down in the tower. It does not make sens to built a city no one can get into nor get out.

 

Self-sufficient: There has to be a way to re-charge those gems other than waiting for a highstorm. So far, they have explored what 1% of the tower? Let's just wait and see what else they will find.

 

PS Who do you think will be put in charge of of all the bridgemen while Kaladin is away? I'd bet on Renarin.

 

Teft is the most logical choice: he already is mostly in charge. Everyone knows him, everyone respects him and he knows exactly what to do.

 

Renarin is not a bridgeman nor has he not shown any leadership capacity/quality and most of bridge 4 still is uncomfortable with him spending so much time there. The other bridges are probably even less at ease with him. Besides, Kaladin does not have the authority to put Renarin in charge of anything (Dalinar does) and even then why would he? Why would he chose Renarin over Teft (or any of his other men) for the bridgemen's leadership?

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I think the Radiants must have designed the city to be secure and self-sufficient.

I was thinking that as well. Stormlight generator fabrial! And I secretly want Stormfather to do something nice for Dalinar, to charge up the generator maybe.

Teft is the most logical choice: he already is mostly in charge. Everyone knows him, everyone respects him and he knows exactly what to do.

..

Why would he chose Renarin over Teft (or any of his other men) for the bridgemen's leadership?

Yea Teft is an obvious choice though Renarin as a KR could use the experience as well. Kaladin won't be gone for that long I believe, unless he is still searching for his parents during the aftermath of the Everstorm.

Edited by kadolin
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Consider that stormlight is investiture: the stuff of a Shard.  The Shard's power is finite (apparently, as the Shards are comparable in power and the only way one gets more powerful is by combining two.  If Odium could just generate investiture, he would have made himself ultra-powerful and splintered all the other Shards long ago.).  A stormlight generator would allow you to essentially freely drain the power of a god.  Not necessarily something that a god (even Honor) wants freely available.  I can imagine a limited conduit, which might be what you mean, but I'm not sure about that.

 

Investiture is available outside of highstorms, as we saw when Kaladin said the second Windrunner oath, but I have no idea where it came from or what other circumstances might make it available. 

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Perhaps more of huge rechargeable stormlight battery that stores it more efficiently and in larger quantity to supply the city, possibly being charged during highstorms.

 

Also Lift could convert food to stormlight. Food which are not of shard power I believe. Even though the limit to the conversion she can do is unknown, it is interesting to consider the implications.

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Perhaps more of huge rechargeable stormlight battery that stores it more efficiently and in larger quantity to supply the city, possibly being charged during highstorms.

Also Lift could convert food to stormlight. Food which are not of shard power I believe. Even though the limit to the conversion she can do is unknown, it is interesting to consider the implications.

Yeah. Lift is puzzling. My completely unsupported guesses are that there is investiture in the food or she uses food as a catalyst to draw investiture from somewhere. It has built-in limitations based on it being only what one person can eat. Edited by hoser
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Thanks for all the replies so far! Would be nice to see some more comments on what pressure it could possible put on Renarin though.
 

It was brought up a while back.  No hard and fast conclusions were come to though at least a couple possibilities were brought up.  One was that were not sure exactly how long Dalinar was on top of that tower so it is possible that either Shallan or Kaladin had time to activate the Oathgate then get to the top using either the elevator or by flying up.  Another possibility was maybe the honor blades can function in that capacity.   I don't know if anyone ever asked Mr. Sanderson about it.


Hmm, interesting. In that scene, Shallan and Kaladin give me every impression that they were just calmly waiting for Dalinar to return, that they were waiting expectantly below the whole time - I hadn't ever thought of them rushing back. I think Dalinar would just have delayed things a bit to ensure Shallan and Kaladin could be there.

I have wondered about Honorblades being able to active the Oathgate too. I would expect it to work. However, I think it would be very dangerous to do that (even if they realise it works) because it would be at huge risk of theft. They wouldn't want another Assassin in White.

 

I personally find it unlikely that either Kaladin or Shallan could loan their blades out since to activate the gate you have to be on the other side and that would put their spren hundreds of miles away.  It has been strongly suggested that a Radiant's spren can't be that far from their bonded person because it might damage or weaken the bond.  The scene where Syl searched out a leaf of blackbane is a case in point.


Hmm, good point but Blades are much more in the physical realm I think. I wonder if something like this would work: at regular times of the day Shallan (or whichever Radiant is on duty) summons Pattern as a Blade and hands it over to an ardent who uses it to active the Oathgate. I presume activating the Oathgate causes a swap (ie whoever is on the Urithiru portal moves to the Shattered Plains and vice versa) which means that activating the Oathgate from Urithiru can bring people from the Shattered Plains. As soon as it activates, Pattern de-materialises like a dead Shardblade can and effectively returns to Shallan instantly. This may use up a certain amount of Stormlight.
 
 

Are we certain that Urithiru dont get Highstorms? Or was it due to the Weeping not ending yet. Theoretically Dalinar could request Stormfather to provide them highstorms for charging up, though I would think they are just relying on the immigrants to bring in charged gems for now. :P


The lack of crem is the main evidence. There is some around but far far less than would be expected otherwise. It may be that only very occasionally does rain from a Highstorm hit Urithiru.
 

Jasnah could be on her way back to Urithiru to join them as well.

 
Yep, but she could be heading elsewhere based on her chats with the Highspren - Shinovar would be an interesting option  :D 

 

I think the Radiants must have designed the city to be secure and self-sufficient.
 
Secure: I am sure there is way out apart from the Oathgate. I am thinking some secret passage deep down in the tower. It does not make sens to built a city no one can get into nor get out.
 
Self-sufficient: There has to be a way to re-charge those gems other than waiting for a highstorm. So far, they have explored what 1% of the tower? Let's just wait and see what else they will find.


It's also possible that they specifically wanted to make Urithiru dependant on trade so that it stays integrated with the rest of the world.

 

Teft is the most logical choice: he already is mostly in charge. Everyone knows him, everyone respects him and he knows exactly what to do.
 
Renarin is not a bridgeman nor has he not shown any leadership capacity/quality and most of bridge 4 still is uncomfortable with him spending so much time there. The other bridges are probably even less at ease with him. Besides, Kaladin does not have the authority to put Renarin in charge of anything (Dalinar does) and even then why would he? Why would he chose Renarin over Teft (or any of his other men) for the bridgemen's leadership?


Teft would be Kaladin's choice I'm sure but Teft has also shown to be reluctant to take on more responsibilities. I could see Dalinar wanting to push more responsibility onto Renarin to help him grow.

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kadolin, on 11 Aug 2014 - 01:10 AM, said:

Perhaps more of huge rechargeable stormlight battery that stores it more efficiently and in larger quantity to supply the city, possibly being charged during highstorms.

 

Also Lift could convert food to stormlight. Food which are not of shard power I believe. Even though the limit to the conversion she can do is unknown, it is interesting to consider the implications.

 

Yeah.  Lift is puzzling.  My completely unsupported guesses are that there is investiture in the food or she uses food as a catalyst to draw investiture from somewhere.  It has built limitations based on it being only what one person can eat. 

 

I believe there is a WoB that Stormlight makes plants grow.  So it seems likely there would be some Investment retained in the naturally grown food.  And the soulcast food probably has some as well from its creation, though if I had to guess, I would say it probably retains less Stormlight than natural food.  Which would be why Lift prefers rich people's food, because they don't typically eat soulcast food.

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It's also possible that they specifically wanted to make Urithiru dependant on trade so that it stays integrated with the rest of the world.

 

True. In one of his visions, Dalinar is beinf told to go to Urithiru, leading us to believe one could just go there. It was thus possible to travel there and the city was probably inhabited with thousand of regular people, artisans, traders, workers and such. There has to be a way out and/or at the very least, a way to easily operate the Oathgate.

 

Teft would be Kaladin's choice I'm sure but Teft has also shown to be reluctant to take on more responsibilities. I could see Dalinar wanting to push more responsibility onto Renarin to help him grow.

 

Yes, but Dalinar would not put Renarin directly in charge of a 1000 men used to be part of darkeyes only batallion. Let's not forget the bridgemen are a special group, outside the regular chain of command.

 

We was in WoK how Dalinar approaches leadership. He believes that half of being a good leader is accomplish by having your men see you as one. How many years did Adolin spent trailing after Dalinar before being given his first command? And even then, Dalinar was right next to him, silently watching, making sure his son was up to the task. We saw in WoK how Dalinar displayed Adolin, pushing him forward just to have the men being used to see him as their commander. When he finally gave Adolin command of the armies, he still went on the plains to watch and make sure everything went well.

 

So far, Dalinar has have Renarin runs errands and gather reports, just like Adolin probably did when he was the same age. Now that Renarin is a Radiant and that Adolin does not need his supervision anymore, I assumed Dalinar will forecast Renarin more, will have him follow him all day and will start having people see him as a person of leadership. This phase will go on for a while before Dalinar even thinks of putting Renarin in charge of men and once he does, it will be a group he will be able to personally supervise on a daily basis to make sure everything goes well.

 

Giving Renarin command of the bridgemen would be a horrible mistake at this point in time. For one, he has not acquired the proper leadership skills yet, for second, putting him in charge of a special darkeyes regiment where most may resent him may not be the best idea for a first command. He will struggle and he will lose whatever self-confidence he has. Besides, 1000 is a lot of men, that's about what Adolin had under his charge in the beginning of WoK.... and I doubt this was his first command.

 

Edit: I do not think the bridgemen see Renarin as a potential leader either... They see him as a child they need to protect, not even a man. You just don't put into a leadership position someone who has not proven himself as a worker before hand. To lead soldiers, Renarin would first need to prove himself by being an apt one, which is unlikely to happen. I see more Renarin falling within a more administrative role, much like Sebrarial.

Edited by maxal
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I wonder what Lifts stormlight conversion rate is. IE, if Lift has stormlight, then fills an emerald with it, then it is used to soulcast food, then she eats the food, how much light does she have left?

 

a = start Stormlight

b = efficiency of transferring stormlight to gem

c = efficiency of stormlight converting rocks into food

d = efficiency of conversion of food to stormlight

e = end stormlight

 

e = a*b*c*d

 

Lift conversion cycle efficiency = e/a = b*c*d

 

So how good is she?

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Thanks...

The lack of crem is the main evidence. There is some around but far far less than would be expected otherwise. It may be that only very occasionally does rain from a Highstorm hit Urithiru.

 

It's also possible that they specifically wanted to make Urithiru dependant on trade so that it stays integrated with the rest of the world.Teft would be Kaladin's choice I'm sure but Teft has also shown to be reluctant to take on more responsibilities. I could see Dalinar wanting to push more responsibility onto Renarin to help him grow.

Well, I would assume that the highstorms all hit Urithiru.  The rain might not be as heavy, the crem might be less or maybe the crem is much less at higher altitudes.  I certainly don't know why there is less crem than there would be at lower altitudes further east. 

 

All Radiants can jump off and land safely if infused.  Two orders can fly to Urithiru.  Two other orders can teleport there.  Jasnah suggests that there are teleporting and flying fabrials in tWoK.  The presence of the Stoneward in the Starfalls vision points to an additional smaller scale teleport fabrial (or the ability to teleport others, but would she then have to walk back?) in addition to the Oathgates. With so many ways for Radiants to get to and from Urithiru, I don't see the need for secret mountain passages (which doesn't mean there aren't any, of course).  

 

kadolin, on 11 Aug 2014 - 01:10 AM, said:

 

 

I believe there is a WoB that Stormlight makes plants grow.  So it seems likely there would be some Investment retained in the naturally grown food.  And the soulcast food probably has some as well from its creation, though if I had to guess, I would say it probably retains less Stormlight than natural food.  Which would be why Lift prefers rich people's food, because they don't typically eat soulcast food.

IIRC, in WoR that the listeners put the gems next to plants to have them grow faster.  It explains why they need the gems and the gems help them eat even though they apparently don't have Soulcasters.

 

True. In one of his visions, Dalinar is beinf told to go to Urithiru, leading us to believe one could just go there. It was thus possible to travel there and the city was probably inhabited with thousand of regular people, artisans, traders, workers and such. There has to be a way out and/or at the very least, a way to easily operate the Oathgate.

 

 

Yes, but Dalinar would not put Renarin directly in charge of a 1000 men used to be part of darkeyes only batallion.

Or Nohadon could just walk to the base of the mountain.  He could easily be a Radiant with the ability to fly or teleport.  A Radiant could pick him up or teleport him or he could use a fabrial.  There are many solutions that fit what I know, so I don't know how to decide which is true. 

 

In addition to the above, I suspect Renarin will have things that he is uniquely suited for other than administer and lead the bridgemen. 

I wonder what Lifts stormlight conversion rate is. IE, if Lift has stormlight, then fills an emerald with it, then it is used to soulcast food, then she eats the food, how much light does she have left?

 

a = start Stormlight

b = efficiency of transferring stormlight to gem

This assumes that she can transfer stormlight to and from gems like Kaladin.  I can imagine her ability to get investiture from food as an alternative to the "normal" method although she could easily have it as an additional ability.

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All Radiants can jump off and land safely if infused.  Two orders can fly to Urithiru.  Two other orders can teleport there.  Jasnah suggests that there are teleporting and flying fabrials in tWoK.  The presence of the Stoneward in the Starfalls vision points to an additional smaller scale teleport fabrial (or the ability to teleport others, but would she then have to walk back?) in addition to the Oathgates. With so many ways for Radiants to get to and from Urithiru, I don't see the need for secret mountain passages (which doesn't mean there aren't any, of course).  

IIRC, in WoR that the listeners put the gems next to plants to have them grow faster.  It explains why they need the gems and the gems help them eat even though they apparently don't have Soulcasters.

 

Radiants can get in and out Urithiru easily, I think this is a no brainer, but how about all of the other people? I mean, the Tower is said to be huge and that months of exploration would not be sufficient to fully map it. It must have housed multiple thousands of people during its peak. Not all of them were Radiants, in fact, most of them weren't. A city needs all kind of people to run, people such as artisans, workers, bakers, cooks, regular soldiers, blacksmiths, healers, carpenters, you name it, it must have lived there. I think it is most probable the city was built with a safe way out, for all of these people, should something happened... Should the Oathgate failed, should the in-house Radiants fall, should any catastrophe arrived, there is need for a way out. A secret one, but a way out nonetheless.

 

I sincerely believe there must (has to) be a secret passage out of Urithiru, one that does not require stormlight and I do believe our heroes will eventually find it (or there enemies, think of how cool it would be if Voidbringers start to secretly invade the city without anyone being prepared or seeing it coming.....)

 

 

In addition to the above, I suspect Renarin will have things that he is uniquely suited for other than administer and lead the bridgemen. 

 

 

 

I agree. He has the surge of Progression. I'd like to see him explore this and maybe set himself within the role of a master healer. I believe this role would suit him better than any leadership position. A skilled healer is a very valuable asset and convey some authority by itself without having to have direct command of men (look at Lirin for example). He could then make best use of this compassionate introvert nature to effectively help others as opposed to rushing into danger without proper training and thus become a bullet more than an asset.

 

I could also see him take up the role of an independent investigator using the surge of Illumination, much like the CIA (someone gave me this idea in another thread and I thought it was a nice one). His introvert and secretive nature would then become an asset as he would work alone, in the shadow, outside the main spotlight. We could even push this forward and have him become a skilled assassin. He always wanted to be a soldier, but he is ill-suited for close-combat. Perhaps secretive assassination would suit him better? This would yield a darker Renarin and I think I like it as it is unexpected for him to go that way.

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I sincerely believe there must (has to) be a secret passage out of Urithiru, one that does not require stormlight and I do believe our heroes will eventually find it (or there enemies, think of how cool it would be if Voidbringers start to secretly invade the city without anyone being prepared or seeing it coming.....)

 

 

Urithiru has ten portals to widely placed locations around Roshar.  So the only way that normal people would be truly trapped is if all ten portals were blocked by an enemy on the other side or if there were no Radiants in Urithiru.  In the case of the former then Urithiru would be effectively under a state of siege in which case the primary goal would be breaking the siege and not leaving as such.  Even then it might be possible for Radiants to get small groups of non-Radiants out in various ways.  In the later case...well...why would their be non-radiants but no Radiants?  Urithiru was a fortress city made by Radiants for Radiants.  Having a normal back door wouldn't be all that useful except as a plot point to let in the bad guys.  I would hope the Radiant's weren't so foolish as to install a built in weakness like that.

 

I'm reminded of the Girl Genius comic when the title character is talking to the sentient castle of her ancestors and asks if their are any secret words or such to sneak past the defenses of the castle.  The castles response is "Dear me, no!  Such things are merely weaknesses to be exploited by enemies!  I was constructed better then that."

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Urithiru has ten portals to widely placed locations around Roshar.  So the only way that normal people would be truly trapped is if all ten portals were blocked by an enemy on the other side or if there were no Radiants in Urithiru.  In the case of the former then Urithiru would be effectively under a state of siege in which case the primary goal would be breaking the siege and not leaving as such.  Even then it might be possible for Radiants to get small groups of non-Radiants out in various ways.  In the later case...well...why would their be non-radiants but no Radiants?  Urithiru was a fortress city made by Radiants for Radiants.  Having a normal back door wouldn't be all that useful except as a plot point to let in the bad guys.  I would hope the Radiant's weren't so foolish as to install a built in weakness like that.

 

Well, only one of the portal currently works, so there is not telling is there was not such an event before. With the wars and the Desolation, it is possible not all ten portals were always operational at the same time. It is also possible there is no Radiants in-house to man-power the Oathgate. Yes, I know, it was a city built by Radiants for Radiants, but how many Radiants was there really? 200? I believe it is quite possible there was a time where only a handful of them were at Urithiru at one given time: all the others being busy elsewhere. Not all orders got along. It is also quite possible there was such thing as conflict between them. An uprising could have happened or foresee, so I do not think it is so far-fetched to think the original builders may have thought of an escape way.

 

Also, I believe the Radiants were much more mobile than the regular folks. The city may have been built by and for the Radiants, other people came to live there, it became their house. So yes, in the event no Radiants are available, an outside route may have had a need. So perhaps you are right and it wasn't within the original building plans, but what about the Recreance? All Radiants forsook their oaths. What happened to the people within the city? Were they evacuated before or were they left to fend for themselves in an enclose city with no way in and no way out? Maybe then it is them who dig and made a way out, as a mean of survival. If not, them our crew would have found hundreds of thousands of skeletons............

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Well, only one of the portal currently works, so there is not telling is there was not such an event before. With the wars and the Desolation, it is possible not all ten portals were always operational at the same time. It is also possible there is no Radiants in-house to man-power the Oathgate. Yes, I know, it was a city built by Radiants for Radiants, but how many Radiants was there really? 200? I believe it is quite possible there was a time where only a handful of them were at Urithiru at one given time: all the others being busy elsewhere. Not all orders got along. It is also quite possible there was such thing as conflict between them. An uprising could have happened or foresee, so I do not think it is so far-fetched to think the original builders may have thought of an escape way.

 

Also, I believe the Radiants were much more mobile than the regular folks. The city may have been built by and for the Radiants, other people came to live there, it became their house. So yes, in the event no Radiants are available, an outside route may have had a need. So perhaps you are right and it wasn't within the original building plans, but what about the Recreance? All Radiants forsook their oaths. What happened to the people within the city? Were they evacuated before or were they left to fend for themselves in an enclose city with no way in and no way out? Maybe then it is them who dig and made a way out, as a mean of survival. If not, them our crew would have found hundreds of thousands of skeletons............

 

According to Dalinar's recreance vision the Windwalkers and Stonewards alone equaled somewhere around two hundred so I would guess somewhere around a thousand Radiants under normal circumstances.  Possibly more when a desolation was imminent since according to Jasnah they would get an influx of new members at such times.

 

We also know that Urithiru was often used as a sort of Junction city.  I believe one of the WoK epigraphs specifically mentions the Radiants charging a fee for using it for that purpose.(I'm guessing in gems for the stormlight.)  Based on this I believe that most of the time under most circumstances all ten portals were operational.

 

Jasnah also states the Urithiru was abandoned even before the Recreance.  So I have to conclude they simply transported everyone out at the time of abandonment via the Oathgates in a reasonably orderly fashion.

 

As things stand I find it likely that prior to the abandonment of Urithiru given the general numbers there was always at least some Radiants in residence.  It was their base of operations after all.  I can't imagine them wanting any kind of "secret" back door under those circumstances.  They wanted a darn near impregnable fortress.  Secret back doors are not conducive to that.

 

That being said right now only one portal works.  The reformed Radiants are still weak.  Only four known to exist and only two with usable shardblades.  The city wasn't designed for these circumstances though.

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According to Dalinar's recreance vision the Windwalkers and Stonewards alone equaled somewhere around two hundred so I would guess somewhere around a thousand Radiants under normal circumstances.  Possibly more when a desolation was imminent since according to Jasnah they would get an influx of new members at such times.

 

I missed that. I recalled reading something about 200 missing shards so I assumed they must have been about 200 Radiants at the time of the Recreance.

 

 

 

We also know that Urithiru was often used as a sort of Junction city.  I believe one of the WoK epigraphs specifically mentions the Radiants charging a fee for using it for that purpose.(I'm guessing in gems for the stormlight.)  Based on this I believe that most of the time under most circumstances all ten portals were operational.

 

Jasnah also states the Urithiru was abandoned even before the Recreance.  So I have to conclude they simply transported everyone out at the time of abandonment via the Oathgates in a reasonably orderly fashion.

 

As things stand I find it likely that prior to the abandonment of Urithiru given the general numbers there was always at least some Radiants in residence.  It was their base of operations after all.  I can't imagine them wanting any kind of "secret" back door under those circumstances.  They wanted a darn near impregnable fortress.  Secret back doors are not conducive to that.

 

Please stop destroying my secret back door theory... I really like it :ph34r: I thought the city was abandoned during the Recreance so I assumed those poor people must have needed a way out. As for secret back doors being counter-productive, well they aren't if they remain, secret ;) I get your point though, I just really like this idea.

 

 

That being said right now only one portal works.  The reformed Radiants are still weak.  Only four known to exist and only two with usable shardblades.  The city wasn't designed for these circumstances though.

 

Yeah. Dalinar won't get a shardblade and something tells me Renarin won't be getting one anytime soon. Kal will be gone for a very long time, that leaves Shallan to operate the Oathgate on her own. They may end up trapped in there with all that stirring within, it could be a neat trap for a civil war  :ph34r: So I may not get my Voidbringer's secret invasion, but a civil war would do nicely. Or a plague  :ph34r: Anything that dooms the poor people, imprisoned, without any way out :ph34r: damnation there just has to be one, even if it is not secretive, how about a natural one? Something like an underground river that would drain on the other side of the mountains? Or maybe there is a way to cross those mountains... Someone is bound to be foolish enough to try it.

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I sincerely doubt the Radiants would deliberately give up control over access to their fortress-city by installing a mundane backdoor, especially given that a significant percentage of them could independently fly or teleport out. That said, they might have installed a secret extra Oathgate hidden somewhere in case they got invaded and lost control of the plaza.

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Even if there's a backdoor, I sincerely hope Brandon doesn't use it to give villains entry to Urithiru. It's been done too many times before. Anyone remember Trollocks using waygates?

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Even if there's a backdoor, I sincerely hope Brandon doesn't use it to give villains entry to Urithiru. It's been done too many times before. Anyone remember Trollocks using waygates?

 

I had exactly that in mind :ph34r: You are right, perhaps it has been overly done in the past :ph34r:

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