Stormlight Archive Book 3(+) Readings

[Sabrina Stormshard Prelan]

So at the recent london signing we got some Q's answered and RAFO'd and we also got a new reading which may or may not be in book 3 but is super exciting nonetheless! I figured we need a book 3 readings thread.

 

Readings from Stormlight Archive 3: Stones Unhallowed

 

Jasnah 1

 

(recorded by me & askthepaperclip, transcribed by WeiryWriter)

Link: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/14339-qs-and-as-from-the-london-signing

Also: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/08/stormlight-archive-scene-after-words-of-radiance 

 

Jasnah Kholin opened her eyes and gasped, fingers rigid, clawing at the obsidian ground. A knife in her chest! She could feel it grinding on her bones as it slipped between two ribs, glancing off her sternum. She spasmed, rolling into a ball, quivering.

“Jasnah.”

No. She could not lay prone. She fought to her knees, but then found herself raking her fingers across the ground, trembling, heaving breaths in and out. Moving—even breathing—was perversely difficult, not because of pain or incapacity, but because of the overwhelming sense of tension. It made her shake, made her made her want to run, fight, do anything she could to not die.

She shouted, stumbling to her feet, and spun about, hand on her chest.

Wet blood. Her blood. A dress cut with a single knife hole.

“Jasnah.” A figure all in black. A landscape of obsidian ground reflecting a bizarre sky and a sun that did not change locations.

She darted her head from side to side, taking in everything but registering very little of it.

Storms. She could sense that knife again, sliding into her flesh. She felt that same helplessness, that same panic—emotions which had accompanied the knife’s fall. She remembered the darkness consuming her, her hearing fading, the end.

She closed her eyes and shivered, trying to banish the memories. Yet the effort of trying to do so only seemed to solidify them.

She knew that she would remember dying for as long as it took the darkness to claim her again.

“You did well,” Ivory said. “Well, Jasnah.”

“The knife,” she whispered, opening her eyes, angry at how her voice trembled, “the knife was unexpected.” She breathed in and out, trying to calm herself. That puffed out the last of her Stormlight, which she had drawn in at the last possible moment, then used like a lash to pull herself into this place. It had kept her alive, healed her.

Ivory said that while a person held enough Stormlight, only a crushing blow to the head itself would kill. She’d believed him, but storms that hadn’t made it any easier to lay there before the knife. Who would have expected them to stab her? Shouldn’t they have assumed that a blow to the head would be enough to—

Wait. Shallan!

“We have to go back,” Jasnah said, spinning. “Ivory, where is the junction?”

“It is not.”

She was able to locate the ship with ease. In Shadesmar, land and sea were reversed, so she stood on solid ground—but in the Physical Realm, Shallan and the sailors would still be in their ship. They manifest here as lights, similar to candle flames, and Jasnah thought of them as the representation of the person’s soul—despite Ivory telling her that was an extreme simplification.

They spotted the air around her, standing up on deck. That solitary flame would be Shallan herself. Many smaller lights darted beneath the ground—faintly visible through the obsidian. Fish and other sea life.

Nerves still taut, Jasnah searched around for the junction: a faint warping of the air that marked the place of her passage into Shadesmar. She could use it return to the ship, to...

One of the lights up above winked out.

Jasnah froze. “They’re being executed. Ivory! The junction.”

“A junction is not, Jasnah,” Ivory repeated. He stood with hands clasped behind his back, wearing a sharp—yet somehow alien—suit, all black. Here in Shadesmar, it was easier to distinguish the mother-of-pearl sheen to his skin, like the colors made by oil on water.

“Not?” Jasnah said, trying to parse his meaning. She’d missed his explanation the first time. Despite their years together, his language constructions still baffled her on occasion. “But there’s always a junction...”

“Only when a piece of you is there,” Ivory said. “Today, that is not. You are here, Jasnah. I am...sorry.”

“You brought me all the way into Shadesmar,” she asked. “Now?”

He bowed his head.

For years she’d been trying to get him to bring her into his world. Though she could peek into Shadesmar on her own—and even slip one foot in, so to speak—entering fully required Ivory’s help. How had it happened? The academic wanted to record her experiences and tease out the process, so that perhaps she could replicate it. She’d used Stormlight, hadn’t she? An outpouring of it, thrust into Shadesmar. A lash which had pulling her, like gravitation from a distant place, unseen...

Memories of what happened mixed with the terror of those last minutes. She shoved both emotions and memories aside. How could she help the people on the ship? Jasnah stepped up to the light, hovering before her, lifting a hand to cup one. Shallan, she assumed, though she could not be certain. Ivory said that there wasn’t always a direct correlation between objects their manifestation in Shadesmar.

She couldn’t touch the soul before her, not completely. Its natural power repelled her hand, as if she were trying to push two pieces of magnetized stone against one another.

A sudden screech broke Shadesmar’s silence.

Jasnah jumped, spinning. It sounded a trumping beast, only overlaid by the sounds of glass breaking. The terrible noise drove a shiver up her spine. It sounded like it had come from someplace nearby.

Ivory gasped. He leaped forward, grabbing Jasnah by the arm. “We must go.”

“What is that?” Jasnah asked.

“Grinder,” Ivory said. “You call them painspren.”

“Painspren are harmless.”

“On your side, harmless. Here, harmmore. Very harmmore. Come.” He yanked on her arm.

“Wait.”

The ship’s crew would die because of her. Storms! She had not thought that the Ghostbloods would be so bold. But what to do? She felt like a child here, newborn. Years of study had told her so little. Could she do anything to those souls above her? She couldn’t even distinguish which were the assassins and which were the crew.

The screech sounded again, coming closer. Jasnah looked up, growing tense. This place was so alien, with ridges and mountains of pure black obsidian, a landscape that was perpetually dim. Small beads of glass rolled about her feet—representations of inanimate objects in the physical realm.

Perhaps...

She fished among them, and these she could identify immediately by touch. Three plates from the galley, one bead each. A trunk holding clothing.

Several of her books.

Her hand hesitated. Oh storms, this was a disaster. Why hadn’t she prepared better? Her contingency plan in case of an assassination attempt had been to play dead, using faint amounts of stormlight from gems sewn into her hem to stay alive. But she’d foolishly expected assassins to appear in the night, strike her down, then flee. She’d not prepared for a mutiny, an assassination led by a member of the crew.

They would murder everyone on board.

“Jasnah!” Ivory said, sounding more desperate. “We must not be in this place! Emotions from the ship draw them!”

She dropped the spheres representing her books and ran her fingers through the other spheres, seeking... there. Ropes—the bonds tying the sailors as they were executed. She found a group of them and seized the spheres.

She drew in the last of her Stormlight, a few gemstones’ worth. So little.

The landscape reacted immediately. Beads on the ground nearby shivered and rolled toward her, seeking the stormlight. The calls of the painspren intensified. It was even closer now. Ivory breathed in sharply, and high above, several long ribbons of smoke descended out of the clouds and began to circle about her.

Stormlight was precious here. It was power, currency, even—perhaps—life. Without it, she’d be defenseless.

“Can I use this Light to return?” she asked him.

“Here?” He shook his head. “No. We must find a stable junction. Honor’s Perpendicularity, perhaps, though it is very distant. But Jasnah, the grinders will soon be!”

Jasnah gripped the beads in her hand.

“You,” she command, “will change.”

“I am a rope,” one of them said. “I am—”

“You will change.”

The ropes shivered, transforming—one by one—into smoke in the physical realm.

 

Kaladin 1  

 

(recorded by shallandavar.tumblr.com, transcribed by WeiryWriter)

Link: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/13089-fantasycon-reading/?p=158227

 

Kaladin trudged through a field of quiet rockbuds, fully aware that he was too late to prevent the disaster.  The knowledge slowed him, pressing against his shoulders with an almost physical sensation, like the weight of a bridge he was forced to carry all on his own.  The land around him should have felt familiar.  Instead it seemed wild, overgrown, alien.  After so long in the stormlands, those eastern lands which bore the brunt of the storms, he’d almost forgotten the sights of a more fertile landscape.  Rockbuds grew almost as big as barrels here, with vines as thick as his wrist spilling out and lapping water from the pools of stone.  Grass spread in fields that came up to his waist, dappled with glowing lifespren. 

 

The grass was vibrant green, and slow to pull down into its burrows as he approached.  Kaladin shook his head, the grass back near the Shattered Plains had  grown only as high as his ankle and had mostly come in yellowish patches on the leeward side of hills.  Almost anything could be hiding in these fields.  All you’d have to do is crouch down and wait for the grass to sneak back up around you and you’d have a perfect ambush point.  How had he never noticed that during his youth? He’d run through many fields like this, playing catch-me with his brother, trying to see who was quick enough to grab handfuls of grass before it hid.

 

Something caught his eye and he started toward it, startling the grass around himself in a pocket.  Kaladin felt drained, used up.  Like a mighty storm that had lost its fury and was now only a soft breeze.  His dramatic flight westward had begun with more stormlight than he thought he could hold, a wealth more tucked into his pockets and pack in the form of gemstones.  But it had ended with this, a limping, exhausted trudge through the fields, stormlight expended.

 

Perhaps he could have made it all the way to northwestern Alethkar from the Shattered Plains if he’d been more practiced.  Unfortunately, as it was, despite bearing a king’s wealth in gemstones for stormlight, he’d run out of power somewhere near Aladar’s princedom.  Before he’d traveled hundreds of miles in half a day, and it still hadn’t been enough.  This last bit, not thirty miles to walk, had been excruciating.  So slow.  He could have passed this distance in an eyeblink before, but now he’d been walking for two days.  He felt like a man who had been winning a footrace only to trip and break his legs a handspan from the finish line.

 

He neared the object he’d seen earlier, and the grass obligingly pulled back before him, revealing a broken, wooden churn for turning sow's milk into butter.  Kaladin rested his fingers on the splintered wood, only the wealthy had enough access to milk for this sort of thing, and the churn would have been locked up tight before the storm.  He glanced to the side at another chunk of wood peeking out over the tops of the grass, like the hand of a drowning man reaching toward the sky.

 

Syl zipped down as a ribbon of light, passing his head, and speeding around the length of wood. He could sense an inquisitiveness to her motions, even though she hadn’t manifested a face yet. Was he mistaken, or was their bond growing stronger?  His ability to read her emotions, and she his, seemed to be improving.  Perhaps it was just familiarity.

 

“It’s the side of a roof,” Kaladin said to her, “The lip that hangs down on the leeward side of a building.”  Probably a storage shed judging by the debris he had spotted in the field.  Alethkar was not in the stormlands but neither was it some soft-skinned stormless western land. Buildings here were made low and squat, particularly outside of big sheltered cities.  They’d have been pointed eastward towards the storms, and the windows would only be on the leeward side. Like the grass and the trees, mankind bowed before the storms.  The alternative was to be ripped apart, for the Stormfather did not suffer the insolence. But then these objects, ripped free in winds, deposited miles from their origins had not come free in a normal highstorm, another more fell wind had done this deed.  A storm that blew the wrong direction.

 

At the mere thought of that a panic rose inside of him, a feeling like he’d gotten when watching a hail of arrows fall on himself and his men.  The Everstorm, as it was called, was so wrong, so unnatural, like a baby born with no face.  Some things should just not be.  And the most troubling part was the storm itself was not their worst problem.  He stood up and left the debris behind, continuing on his way.  He’d changed uniforms before leaving, taking the Oathgate to the Shattered Plains then streaking into the sky and rushing in desperation for Alethkar.  His old one had been bloody and tattered, though this one wasn’t much better.  A spare, generic Kholin uniform, not even of the old Cobalt Guard.  It felt wrong not to bear the symbol of Bridge Four, but then a lot of things felt wrong to him these days.

 

I swear I recognize this place, he thought to himself, cresting a hill.  A river broke the landscape to his right, but it was small and impermanent, it would only flow during a storm.  Still trees sprouted along its banks hungry for the extra water and they marked the route.  Yes, that would be Hobble’s  Brook, so if he looked directly west…  Hand shading his eyes, he spotted them, cultivated hills.  They stuck out like the balding crowns of elderly men, no grass, no rockbuds. They’d soon be slathered with seedcrem and lavis polyps would start growing.  That hadn’t started yet most likely, this was supposed to be the Weeping.  Rain should be falling right now in a constant gentle stream.  The Everstorm that had blown through early in the morning had swept the clouds along with it, stopping the rain.  As much as he despised the Weeping he was not happy to see those rains go, they should have lasted another seven days but the wrong windstorm had apparently disrupted them.  Another unnatural effect.  Kaladin had been forced to weather that storm in a hollow of rock, cut with a  Shardblade.  Storms, it had been even more eerie than a highstorm.

 

He crested a hill, inspecting the landscape, as he did Syl zipped down in front of him, a ribbon of light, “Your eyes are brown again,” she noted.  It took a few years without touching stormlight or summoning his Shardblade, once he did either thing his eyes would bleed to a glassy light blue, almost glowing.  A few hours later they’d fade again.  Syl found the variation fascinating.

 

Kaladin grunted, continuing down the slope.

 

“Do you like my new look?” Syl asked wagging her covered safehand.

 

“It looks strange on you.”

 

“I’ll have you know that I put a ton of thought into it,” Syl said in a huff, “I spend positively hours thinking of just how-- OOH! What’s that!” She zipped away, turning into a little storm cloud that

 

came to rest over a lurg clinging to the stone.  She inspected the fist-sized amphibian on one side, and then the other, before squealing in joy and turning into a perfect imitation, except a pale bluewhite.  This startled the thing away and she giggled zipping back toward Kaladin as a ribbon of light.  “What were we saying?” She asked, forming into a young woman and resting on his shoulder.

 

“Nothing important.”

 

“I’m sure I was scolding you,” Syl said, tapping her shoulder with her finger in a pensive way,

 

“Regardless, you’re home. Yay! Aren’t you excited?”

 

He shook his head.  She didn’t see it, didn’t realize.  Sometimes, for all her curiosity, she could be so oblivious…

 

“But it’s your home,” Syl said.  She hung down.  “What’s wrong? Why are you feeling like this?”

 

“The Everstorm, Syl,” Kaladin said, “We were supposed to beat it here.” He’d needed to beat it here.  Storms, why hadn’t he been faster?  He’d spent much of the day before in a forced march, as fast as he could manage.  Never even stopping to sleep, perhaps that was why he felt so drained, like he’d been lifting his arms, a chore.  Being without stormlight after holding so much was part of it too.  He felt like a hogshide tube that had been squeezed and squeezed to get the last drops of the antiseptic out, leaving only the husk.  Was this what I was going to be like everytime he used a lot of stormlight and then ran dry?  The arrival of the Everstorm that morning had caused him to collapse, finally giving into his fatigue.  That had been the ringing of the bell that noticed the failure.

 

 

 

 

Reply with links to any new readings and I'll add to the list!

Edited August 6, 2014 by Sabrina Stormshard

[maxal Dawnshard]

Jasnah. We haven't had a lot of Jasnah in the last book and her death experiment is compelling to the very least. I am very interested in reading more about Jasnah.

 

Kaladin, Kaladin felt like same old Kaladin: whiny and depressed and dwelling again on how he failed to protect people. This is getting old. I adored Kal in WoK, but after WoR, I felt I wanted to read more about other characters.

 

So who are we getting next? Shallan, Dalinar, Adolin? Nothing to spoilery, so I'd bet on Shallan.

[traceria King's Tester]

I almost voted for Kaladin, but then realized it was mostly because of Syl.    I'm more intrigued about what's going on with Jasnah at this point.

[WeiryWriter Prime]

Short bit of housekeeping, I'm moving this to the spoiler forum becasue here there be spoilers, and also shallandavar-.tumblr.com (with the dash, which isn't in your post) changed their url to theairsicklowlander.tumblr.com

 

I voted Jasnah because it solves a big mystery from WoR (how did she survive?) and it taught us a little more about entering the Cognitive Realm (junctions are thing).

 

I liked the Kaladin reading, but we didn't really learn anything new (except that the eye color change is temporary)

 

@Maxal I would say that what you think is "whiny" and "getting old" is an accurate portrayal of someone with depression, those are character traits he is never going to get over, he'll have to deal with them for his entire life.  I've talked with quite a few people going through the same sort of thing and they are so thankful for the way Kaladin is portrayed.  Personally I think that outweighs, significantly, any "boredom" others might feel.

[maxal Dawnshard]

@Maxal I would say that what you think is "whiny" and "getting old" is an accurate portrayal of someone with depression, those are character traits he is never going to get over, he'll have to deal with them for his entire life.  I've talked with quite a few people going through the same sort of thing and they are so thankful for the way Kaladin is portrayed.  Personally I think that outweighs, significantly, any "boredom" others might feel.

 

I understand what Brandon is trying to do, but truth to be told, for those of us who have never suffered from depression, he is sometimes tedious to read. I have read enough comments from others on Kal to know I am far from the only one who feels this way about him.

 

Knowing he is a rightful representation of real-life depressed people does not make me enjoy reading some of his POV more. I understand or I think I do, but it is still painful to read. Mind, I still like Kal, I like  when he is pro-active, when he takes decisions and actions, when he is witty but when he gets overly grumpy and whiny, I just want to shake him    Especially since he has been depressed since what? Birth it seemed? Is it even realistic for someone to be this depressed from early childhood with no triggering events what so ever? Maybe it is, I honestly to do not know, but I just have a really, really, really hard time grasping it.

[Fifth of Daybreak Most Ancient]

I understand what Brandon is trying to do, but truth to be told, for those of us who have never suffered from depression, he is sometimes tedious to read. I have read enough comments from others on Kal to know I am far from the only one who feels this way about him.

 

Knowing he is a rightful representation of real-life depressed people does not make me enjoy reading some of his POV more. I understand or I think I do, but it is still painful to read. Mind, I still like Kal, I like  when he is pro-active, when he takes decisions and actions, when he is witty but when he gets overly grumpy and whiny, I just want to shake him    Especially since he has been depressed since what? Birth it seemed? Is it even realistic for someone to be this depressed from early childhood with no triggering events what so ever? Maybe it is, I honestly to do not know, but I just have a really, really, really hard time grasping it.

 

I evened out your negative vote. But as someone who used to struggle with depression daily, and sometimes have trouble still, here's some things that might help you understand:

 

Depression is painful. I think that's why Kaldin still is one of my favorite characters, is because I completely understand his state of mind. I've been there and back, and there and back again. Yes, it's possible to try and overcome it, and I've been a lot more successful than I would've thought possible eight years ago, but he definitely has a trigger, considering his hardships. Storms, the man is probably still grieving over his dead brother. That alone could take years, and that's before the inclination to depression, and all the rest of his problems. 

 

The thing is, Syl is exactly what Kaladin needs. It takes a powerful positive force in your mind to change things, at least it did for me.  Constant work at positivity over the course of years is what it took me to manage my depression. It's not a change that happens overnight, in fact, I think it will be prevalent throughout the first five books. Kaladin has been taking steps to improve, and he has at a believable and rational rate. These kinds of changes don't happen overnight. 

 

Even with her help, an outside force can only help so much. The battle is very much an internal one. 

 

It's not as simple as just being "shaken out of it." There's a sort of muffling effect depression has on your personality and the way you view the world. It really is a fight to overcome that, even with a good support system in place. I remember my sophmore year of High School, on my birthday, I stole the show at the spring musical The Fantasticks, with nothing truly bad happening, and I ended up crying in a depressed huddle in the dressing room when everyone else was onstage. I can't explain why. It doesn't make sense to me now, and it didn't then, but it just was.

 

None of this may make him any more interesting of a read, but it makes him real, and I think he will continue to shine brighter as time goes on, and quite possibly, if he survives to the ten year gap, he might come out one of the happier characters despite everything that's to come.

 

But then again, it could be that this is a giant tragedy that makes us going running to George R. R. Martin to console us (hee hee.)

 

 

All of that said. Jasnah all the way. Whoooooo! Using this information, I'll probably need to do some editing of my physiology theory.

Edited August 5, 2014 by EMTrevor

[maxal Dawnshard]

I evened out your negative vote. But as someone who used to struggle with depression daily, and sometimes have trouble still, here's some things that might help you understand:

 

 

Thanks. I did not see the downvote, hopefully. I fail to understand why people keep getting downvoted for trying to express their feelings towards certain characters. Because I have the honesty to admit I have a hard time reading, sometimes, Kaladin, because I admit it is difficult for me to understand and relate to his depressive state, I get downvoted? I am a human being. I have my own personal history and yes there are things I find more difficult to relate to, depression is one of them. I do have a hard time relating to depression and I do have personal reasons for this. Is it really offensive for me to write it down? If it is then I am saddened to hear it. It is only through discussion and sharing of ideas that we can evolve as people and as people, we shouldn't be afraid to express why we have issues dealing with certain things.

 

 

...

 

Thank you for the rest of your post. It does help to put things in perspective. Post like yours are most welcome. I will try to read Kaladin with a more open-mind.

[Fifth of Daybreak Most Ancient]

Thanks. I did not see the downvote, hopefully. I fail to understand why people keep getting downvoted for trying to express their feelings towards certain characters. Because I have the honesty to admit I have a hard time reading, sometimes, Kaladin, because I admit it is difficult for me to understand and relate to his depressive state, I get downvoted? I am a human being. I have my own personal history and yes there are things I find more difficult to relate to, depression is one of them. I do have a hard time relating to depression and I do have personal reasons for this. Is it really offensive for me to write it down? If it is then I am saddened to hear it. It is only through discussion and sharing of ideas that we can evolve as people and as people, we shouldn't be afraid to express why we have issues dealing with certain things.

 

I think so too, not to try and shame whoever did the downvoting. A good portion of what we are trying to communicate is lost, because on the forums there is not body language, no intonation, no inflection, and no facial expression. Some things things are either interpreted incorrectly or aren't quite explained properly through text without body language to back it up. I think we've got enough people on the forums that balance things out that no one really loses out through the downvotes though. 

 

 

 

Thank you for the rest of your post. It does help to put things in perspective. Post like yours are most welcome. I will try to read Kaladin with a more open-mind.

 

He definitely is a tedious read, but it strikes me more as a good thing, because it lends him to be a more realistic well rounded and constructed character, who becomes far more interesting for it, especially the few times we get to see him through other points of view.

Edited August 5, 2014 by EMTrevor

[maxal Dawnshard]

I think so too, not to try and shame whoever did the downvoting. A good portion of what we are trying to communicate is lost, because on the forums there is not body language, no intonation, no inflection, and no facial expression. Some things things are either interpreted incorrectly or aren't quite explained properly through text without body language to back it up. I think we've got enough people on the forums that balance things out that no one really loses out through the downvotes though.

 

Whoever did it must have felt it had good reasons. I just wished it would have shared it. If some of my posts come out as offensive, then I like to know why. Is it my phrasing or my wording perhaps that was ill chosen? If I have indeed wrote something out of the place, then I prefer someone to take the time to write out why, so I can figure out how to better express myself next time. Anonymous downvoting does no help people become better posters

 

I agree about us lacking the body language to fully understand one's opinion. Truth is we all have our backgrounds and we all react differently to different situation. Is one reaction better than the other? Perhaps, but it is only through discussion than we can learn to better ourselves and open our mind.

 

We truly have a great community. Despite all, I still feel we are able to convey our feelings without fearing to many judgements. There's always seem to be someone to understand what it is we are trying to say.

 

 

He definitely is a tedious read, but it strikes me more as a good thing, because it lends him to be a more realistic well rounded and constructed character, who becomes far more interesting for it, especially the few times we get to see him through other points of view.

 

I still like Kal and I did not find all of his chapters tedious, some were downright amazing. I was able to emphasize with him a lot through WoK. It is WoR that has been more difficult for me to understand. He is a great character, if he weren't, then we wouldn't be discussing him.

[kadolin Spearman]

Poor Kal doesn't get much revealed in this reading. Jasnah's part has afew important revelations, implications & potential speculation-worthy info. (Pattern buzz with approval)

 

Upvoted pikachu for standing up for Kaladin!

[kari-no-sugata Shardbearer]

I definitely enjoyed the Jasnah one more, but that's more to do with the revelations and tension in the scene. Was thrilling being there as it was read out.

 

For what it's worth, I thought Kaladin had very good reasons to be depressed: he very reasonably fears being "too late" and he's run out of Stormlight and he's really worn out. Staying positive in such a situation would very challenging. So I have no complaints about him "being depressed" - if I would have any complaints it would be with how he handles it.

[Teccam Noble-Blooded]

@Maxal I would say that what you think is "whiny" and "getting old" is an accurate portrayal of someone with depression, those are character traits he is never going to get over, he'll have to deal with them for his entire life.

 

That's not necessarily true, Weiry. Persistent depressive disorder is by no means guaranteed to be a permanent disease. And it affects different people in different ways. I don't believe there can really be an "accurate" way to describe depression because it's such a broad thing. One thing to note is that clinical depression is generally associated with major depressive episodes, along with related symptoms such as manic/hypomanic episodes, anxiety, stress, etc. Kaladin hasn't really had anything like this, so I'm not sure we actually have enough information to "diagnose" him.

 

Also, for the record, even in a world without anti-depressants, and without a social structure that allows for proper clinical diagnoses for mood disorders, there are ways to treat depression.

 

I'm not saying Kaladin's mood doesn't have some sort of psychological catalyst -- indeed, that is almost surely the case. But he doesn't really fit the bill for classical depression. If he does have it, it seems to be very mild, which means there is actually a fair chance for him to overcome it in time. Of course, the Knights Radiant are supposed to be "broken", so it's definitely possible that Kaladin will remain like this for the whole series. However, I believe that if he fully invests himself in the Windrunner ideals, and if he's able to form meaningful relationships with people like Dalinar, Shallan, and Renarin -- as opposed to the likes of Moash -- that would go a long way toward forming the type of support system that could help him overcome his depression.

[Zea mays King's Wit]

I'm one of the two people that voted for Kaladin. He's always been my favorite character (in the cosmere) and I'm looking forward to his homecoming. That reading made me really want to know what would happen next (after Mr. Sanderson stopped), o damnation with the wait for the next book.

 

I do love Jasnah as well, and her segment was intriguing too, of course, and contained some tantalising world-building tidbits. But I'm not worried about what might happen to her next, because A. We already know how that situation worked out and B. I can't imagine Jasnah doing something incredibly stupid (more than I can say for my beloved Kal ).

[Savanorn High Prelan]

I understand what Brandon is trying to do, but truth to be told, for those of us who have never suffered from depression, he is sometimes tedious to read. I have read enough comments from others on Kal to know I am far from the only one who feels this way about him.

 

Knowing he is a rightful representation of real-life depressed people does not make me enjoy reading some of his POV more. I understand or I think I do, but it is still painful to read. Mind, I still like Kal, I like  when he is pro-active, when he takes decisions and actions, when he is witty but when he gets overly grumpy and whiny, I just want to shake him    Especially since he has been depressed since what? Birth it seemed? Is it even realistic for someone to be this depressed from early childhood with no triggering events what so ever? Maybe it is, I honestly to do not know, but I just have a really, really, really hard time grasping it.

 

You probably don't need a second thesis, the other was already good, but just a few things...

 

Firstly, is it realistic? Yes. 

Secondly, is it common? No. 

 

Now, as a disclaimer I'm not a mental health professional, but I do have both experience and I've had a number of mentoring roles where we were given a basic overview of mental health. So; most people have a depressive episode as a result of something, bad breakups, loss, homesickness... but some people do have recurring issues as a general matter of course. Like, as a part of their personality if you will. Further, this usually is a reoccuring episodic form rather than a constant background hum, and as others have said, it can be matched by equally dizzying highs (something I think Kaladin has felt before, but less periods and more event-based)_ 

 

I think you have to realise that Kaladin is the second, clinical type. I think sorrow would find him regardless, but it is especially pronounced without Tien and with him taking responsibility for everything that goes wrong to anyone around him. Add to this the fact that his ideals were drawn through the mud and he's had some very bad stuff happen, and he's got plenty of fuel.

 

I don't know, I like Kaladin. He's grumpy and biased and a bit of a mess, but he's a mess I understand. The Fleet story settled it for me. I get what Brandon was trying to say. Kaladin tries. He's lucky enough that he can succeed too, but he'll rip himself apart when he doesn't. 

 

 

That's not necessarily true, Weiry. Persistent depressive disorder is by no means guaranteed to be a permanent disease. And it affects different people in different ways. I don't believe there can really be an "accurate" way to describe depression because it's such a broad thing. One thing to note is that clinical depression is generally associated with major depressive episodes, along with related symptoms such as manic/hypomanic episodes, anxiety, stress, etc. Kaladin hasn't really had anything like this, so I'm not sure we actually have enough information to "diagnose" him.

 

Also, for the record, even in a world without anti-depressants, and without a social structure that allows for proper clinical diagnoses for mood disorders, there are ways to treat depression.

 

I'm not saying Kaladin's mood doesn't have some sort of psychological catalyst -- indeed, that is almost surely the case. But he doesn't really fit the bill for classical depression. If he does have it, it seems to be very mild, which means there is actually a fair chance for him to overcome it in time. Of course, the Knights Radiant are supposed to be "broken", so it's definitely possible that Kaladin will remain like this for the whole series. However, I believe that if he fully invests himself in the Windrunner ideals, and if he's able to form meaningful relationships with people like Dalinar, Shallan, and Renarin -- as opposed to the likes of Moash -- that would go a long way toward forming the type of support system that could help him overcome his depression.

 

Well, I think we have a WoB on this, which is enough to confirm what is supposed to be the case. 

 

Do correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't treatment a pretty individual thing Teccam? Like, in my experience the only reliable method is medication. Prescription mind you, I've known people who self-medicate but I've not seen that work. Sure, people can have treatment, counselling, new exercise plans, new hobbies, even a new book sometimes helps...but, how was it said to me?  Sooner or later the colours that once were vivid become grey. Meditation grows stale. Mottos become tired. Friends grate on you. It's worse without any of these things, of course, but even trying your best to help people doesn't make them better. 

 

So yeah, not really disagreeing just sharing. 

[maxal Dawnshard]

You probably don't need a second thesis, the other was already good, but just a few things...

 

Firstly, is it realistic? Yes. 

Secondly, is it common? No. 

 

Now, as a disclaimer I'm not a mental health professional, but I do have both experience and I've had a number of mentoring roles where we were given a basic overview of mental health. So; most people have a depressive episode as a result of something, bad breakups, loss, homesickness... but some people do have recurring issues as a general matter of course. Like, as a part of their personality if you will. Further, this usually is a reoccuring episodic form rather than a constant background hum, and as others have said, it can be matched by equally dizzying highs (something I think Kaladin has felt before, but less periods and more event-based)_ 

 

I think you have to realise that Kaladin is the second, clinical type. I think sorrow would find him regardless, but it is especially pronounced without Tien and with him taking responsibility for everything that goes wrong to anyone around him. Add to this the fact that his ideals were drawn through the mud and he's had some very bad stuff happen, and he's got plenty of fuel.

 

I don't know, I like Kaladin. He's grumpy and biased and a bit of a mess, but he's a mess I understand. The Fleet story settled it for me. I get what Brandon was trying to say. Kaladin tries. He's lucky enough that he can succeed too, but he'll rip himself apart when he doesn't. 

 

 

This is interesting. One of the things that has always bothered my with Kal was the fact he seemed depressed before all of these horrible events occurred. I understand why he would become depressive after his brother's death, Amaram's betrayals, the bridge runs and I certainly do not fault him for that, but it seemed, from his flashback chapters he has always been depressed.... Even as a child, he was unhappy, unsmiling, unenthusiastic. It's like he was born with a scowl and if there is one thing children generally are not it's depressed, unless they grow up in some really bad neighborhood with some really bad parenting (and even then some turn out just fine despite all), which was not the case for Kal. I have been wondering about it as it seemed far-fetched to me.

 

Thanks for explaining it can actually happen. I was more aware of the first type of depression which did not fit very well with Kal.

Edited August 6, 2014 by maxal

[Horatio Spifflewicket Idrian Monk]

I think there was some comment somewhere that Kaladin has Seasonal Affective Disorder - which is why he is always gloomy during the Weeping, as well.

[Sabrina Stormshard Prelan]

Just seen this: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/08/stormlight-archive-scene-after-words-of-radiance

 

it's an extended version of the jasnah reading. have amended above!

[Savanorn High Prelan]

This is interesting. One of the things that has always bothered my with Kal was the fact he seemed depressed before all of these horrible events occurred. I understand why he would become depressive after his brother's death, Amaram's betrayals, the bridge runs and I certainly do not fault him for that, but it seemed, from his flashback chapters he has always been depressed.... Even as a child, he was unhappy, unsmiling, unenthusiastic. It's like he was born with a scowl and if there is one thing children generally are not it's depressed, unless they grow up in some really bad neighborhood with some really bad parenting (and even then some turn out just fine despite all), which was not the case for Kal. I have been wondering about it as it seemed far-fetched to me.

 

Thanks for explaining it can actually happen. I was more aware of the first type of depression which did not fit very well with Kal.

 

It's exactly misconceptions like this that make having mental disorders so hard for people, real or fictitious apparently, so I'm glad I could help. 

 

Good morning. 

[Shaggai Seer]

Just seen this: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/08/stormlight-archive-scene-after-words-of-radiance

 

it's an extended version of the jasnah reading. have amended above!

That's really interesting. The bit with the painspren... I wonder if we've gotten a clue as to why going into the Cognitive Realm in Sel is dangerous. With the scattered Investiture of not one, but two Shards floating about, which manifests as the Seons and the Skaze (and that's just the manifestations we know about), that could get very dangerous very quickly.

[Cstryon Oldblood]

As a behavioral health professional (EMT, and BHT currently working in a psychiatric crisis facility) I don't see Kaladin as having a depressive disorder. What I see is someone with a lot of hardships who simply has poor coping skills.

It is of course different for everyone, and I'm not qualified to diagnose. But in my experience, people with depressive disorders, usually will experience symptoms for no apparent reason, where as people with (relatively) healthy minds will experience depressed periods when circumstances are, well, depressing. Kal has had a hard life, and had a lot of hardships in a relatively short amount of time. What he's suffering from seems to me more personality. He just doesn't have any healthy ways he knows of to cope with hardships.

EMTrevor's example of crying during the performance even though nothing should be wrong is more typical of depression, in my experience.

Again, I do have the experience, and helping people with behavioral health problems, is what I do for a living. But I am hardly an authority, I am no Dr of psych. Nor do I have any degrees in psych. So I could be wrong in my observation.

[NLe Skaa]

I definitely enjoyed the Jasnah one more, but that's more to do with the revelations and tension in the scene. Was thrilling being there as it was read out.

 

For what it's worth, I thought Kaladin had very good reasons to be depressed: he very reasonably fears being "too late" and he's run out of Stormlight and he's really worn out. Staying positive in such a situation would very challenging. So I have no complaints about him "being depressed" - if I would have any complaints it would be with how he handles it.

Agreed.

[dilburt Darkeyes]

I understand what Brandon is trying to do, but truth to be told, for those of us who have never suffered from depression, he is sometimes tedious to read. I have read enough comments from others on Kal to know I am far from the only one who feels this way about him.

 

Knowing he is a rightful representation of real-life depressed people does not make me enjoy reading some of his POV more. I understand or I think I do, but it is still painful to read. Mind, I still like Kal, I like  when he is pro-active, when he takes decisions and actions, when he is witty but when he gets overly grumpy and whiny, I just want to shake him    Especially since he has been depressed since what? Birth it seemed? Is it even realistic for someone to be this depressed from early childhood with no triggering events what so ever? Maybe it is, I honestly to do not know, but I just have a really, really, really hard time grasping it.

Personally, I think it's great that Brandon portrays characters that have real emotions and real problems and find this more interesting than the characters in most stories that live impossibly trouble-free lives. Luckily I've never had depression but it was pretty obvious that Kaladin was being affected by the seasons which is a great twist on the storm-driven environment. It was also interesting how Tien could pull Kaladin out of his depression - I wonder if that is something that actually works with some cases of depression.

 

Also, I think Brandon is focusing here and there as needed to tell his story and it's working well in my opinion.  I don't think he will change the characters he is going to feature in the next book. I just want to vote for him to finish it more quickly. :-)

 

D

[WitSpren Babsk]

Personally, I think it's great that Brandon portrays characters that have real emotions and real problems and find this more interesting than the characters in most stories that live impossibly trouble-free lives. Luckily I've never had depression but it was pretty obvious that Kaladin was being affected by the seasons which is a great twist on the storm-driven environment. It was also interesting how Tien could pull Kaladin out of his depression - I wonder if that is something that actually works with some cases of depression.

 

Also, I think Brandon is focusing here and there as needed to tell his story and it's working well in my opinion.  I don't think he will change the characters he is going to feature in the next book. I just want to vote for him to finish it more quickly. :-)

 

D

100% Dilburt.     & Upvote for you!    

 

Loved both Jasnah's & Kal's readings.     Jasnah's had more world building info, but Kal's had important info about him being able to get back home in time. 

 

I can't vote for both, so no vote for me.

 

Sure, on the 30th+++ reading, some of these personal flaws may get a bit tedious, but that is all Brandon's fault for not having "Unhallowed" out already.     COME ON!     Quit dragging your feet Brandon!

 

Again, I must say the the final Wit chapter in WoR says it all.     Brandon is going to have a VERY hard time meeting or beating the quality & quantity (length) expectations of WoK and especially WoR.     

 

I'm not a big Elantris fan - read it & liked it, but one read or maybe two was enough.    Warbreaker was a lot better and got several reads.    All the Mistborn's got over 5 reads from me & I will probably do another reread of Warbreaker & the Mistborn's soon - to help me endure the wait for "Unhallowed".     I have liked several of his "shorts" as well, but well damnation!   They are just so SHORT!

 

Can anyone tell me is there anything (story wise) publically available on his  White Sand: Taldain world or Dragonsteel: Yolen world?

[Slater Shardbearer]

Jasnah for sure. That said I love Kal and I can't wait to see what goes down with him in Heartstone and after, it's just we have seen way less of Jasnah in comparison.

[Windreader Prelan]

Kaladin's reading for me. I mean its Kaladin. And Kaladin's awesome. And there's so many things that could happen next.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Windreader