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Dun Sphere

Ch. 85 Epigraph Refers to Hoid

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The quote itself is taken from the Diagram and Androtagia thinks that it may be referencing Mraize. It makes more sense that it would be referencing Hoid instead.

 

But who is the wanderer, the wild piece, the one who makes no sense? I glimpse at his implications, and the world opens to me. I shy back. Impossible. Is it?

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I agree, it could very easily refer to Hoid. I think Mraize is still a compelling possibility, as he may be a worldhopper as well, but Hoid is definitely who I think that refers to.

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It's also a reason for Mr. T. to shy back. I doubt very seriously the Diagram takes the rest of the Cosmere into account.

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I believe Mraize is a worldhopper (He is an obvious "wanderer"), and he is blatantly involved in the politics and happening of the society, so I think he is more well known as a mover and shaker and important person than Hoid. Which is why I think Androtagia thinks the quote refers to him. I mean, other than Jasnah and Kaladin, and maybe Dalinar, who would imagine Wit to be someone the Diagram would reference directly.

 

However, Hoid seems much more of a wild-card than Mraize. Hoid is the one that makes no sense.

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I believe Mraize is a worldhopper (He is an obvious "wanderer"), and he is blatantly involved in the politics and happening of the society, so I think he is more well known as a mover and shaker and important person than Hoid. Which is why I think Androtagia thinks the quote refers to him. I mean, other than Jasnah and Kaladin, and maybe Dalinar, who would imagine Wit to be someone the Diagram would reference directly.

However, Hoid seems much more of a wild-card than Mraize. Hoid is the one that makes no sense.

Hoid is exponentially more involved in Roshar than he had been on other worlds. If someone was going to notice him and "glimpse his implications," it would be on Roshar. Considering Taravangian's probability prediction intelligence is looking at the world through a macro scale, I'd expect he's seeing Hoid, as he is most likely working on a larger scale than Mraize is.

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I'm inclined to believe that The Letters may be between Hoid(1st) and Mraize(2nd). The end of the first letter where Hoid is asking Mraize to Join him in his oath of nonintervention kind of fits since Mraize's actions are not helping at all on Roshar. It may also be possible that the gemstone that is referenced is the one that Gavilar gave to Szeth.

 

I doubt very seriously the Diagram takes the rest of the Cosmere into account.

 

Perhaps, but it is absolutely possible that it does.

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I'm inclined to believe that The Letters may be between Hoid(1st) and Mraize(2nd). 

 

Why have I not thought of that!? Sphere, I really reckon you should start a topic on that (unless it's already been done).

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Except if Mraize is the recipient then he is a dragon... And that doesn't make much sense.

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Except if Mraize is the recipient then he is a dragon... And that doesn't make much sense.

 

Except if dragons are shapeshifters...no, that seems to corny (and yes, it has been done before, too). xD

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Except if Mraize is the recipient then he is a dragon... And that doesn't make much sense.

 

Except if dragons are shapeshifters...no, that seems to corny (and yes, it has been done before, too). xD

 

Unless...dragons are, like, different in different realms? 

 

Like, how cryptics and somewhat human like in the cognitive realm but at least in the physical he's just a blob of patterns.

 

Maybe dragons are the reverse? Human in the real world, lizard-spren-things in the cognitive realm.

 

Throwin' it out there.  

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I'm inclined to believe that The Letters may be between Hoid(1st) and Mraize(2nd). The end of the first letter where Hoid is asking Mraize to Join him in his oath of nonintervention kind of fits since Mraize's actions are not helping at all on Roshar. It may also be possible that the gemstone that is referenced is the one that Gavilar gave to Szeth.

 

 

Perhaps, but it is absolutely possible that it does.

 

I don't know ... Mraize ist not a person I see as "non-intervening", like the dragon is described by Hoid.

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Could Mraize be a kandra? with a few dragon bones among his more normal ones?

 

Shallan keeps saying how damaged his hands are ... I'd assumed it was from war injuries, but maybe there are other more interesting reasons?

 

Not sure how many eggs I'd want to put in this basket, but an intesting idea.

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Could Mraize be a kandra? with a few dragon bones among his more normal ones?

 

Shallan keeps saying how damaged his hands are ... I'd assumed it was from war injuries, but maybe there are other more interesting reasons?

 

Not sure how many eggs I'd want to put in this basket, but an intesting idea.

 

Sure, but that would make him a kandra and not a dragon. 

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I think the Diagram refers to Hoid purely on the fact that Androtagia thinks its Mraize. Not even gonna justify it.

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The quote itself is taken from the Diagram and Androtagia thinks that it may be referencing Mraize. It makes more sense that it would be referencing Hoid instead.

 

But who is the wanderer, the wild piece, the one who makes no sense? I glimpse at his implications, and the world opens to me. I shy back. Impossible. Is it?

 

The quote from the Diagram itself has a strong sense of shock and surprise... awe even. It seems like super-Taravangian's mind got blown.

 

So yeah I agree - I've always thought that Hoid totally fits that.

 

Mraize seems like very very long shot with what we currently know - Mraize being a student (to Iyatil) and being at least one step below Thaidakar hardly gives a sense of awe. We have a bunch of world-hoppers on Roshar though, so would be interesting to know why Androtagia singled out Mraize as a candidate? (they don't know of any others maybe?) 

 

PS I would not be at all surprised if Mraize is wearing some kind of disguise. Iyatil clearly is and Mraize is her student after all... and Shallan ponders the wide gap between his looks and attitude on both meetings. Definitely "suspicious".

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I think Mraize is a worldhopper and i love the character/man but i don't think he is the Wanderer i have no proof just a gut feeling.

(I don't think he really follows Thaidakar either, he's just using him)

 

Hoid is my best bet he certainly is a Wanderer he has a direct link to the Shards and events all over Cosmere and we haven't seen the 'dangerous' work he does behind the scenes..

 

Lift?? Maybe got the gender wrong? A flaw in the Diagram even with Mr.T's awesome intelligence i doubt he was 100% omnipotent?

The description certainly matches she has no real plan and shes well not... predictable 

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I'm inclined to believe that The Letters may be between Hoid(1st) and Mraize(2nd). The end of the first letter where Hoid is asking Mraize to Join him in his oath of nonintervention kind of fits since Mraize's actions are not helping at all on Roshar. It may also be possible that the gemstone that is referenced is the one that Gavilar gave to Szeth.

 

 

Perhaps, but it is absolutely possible that it does.

 

I am doubtful. There are two things that contradict this theory. 1. It is the second letter that asks the recipient to "Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention. "

2. Hoid is very much intervening in the events of the cosmere everywhere, he is nudging here, and guiding here. It is him someone wants to stop meddling. He is also told to "leave that place", meaning that they with high probability won't be in the same warcamps or planet for that matter. 

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I think it's pretty clear in the book that Mraize is from Thaylenah.

 

Oooh, okay.  Does he dye/trim his eyebrows then?  I don't recall Shallan mentioning him having the distinctive long/white eyebrows of the Thaylens.  (Though she doesn't describe Taravangian having them either, which I *think* he would since Kharbranth is located in what was once Thalath, so he'd probably be ethnically Thaylen?  Though that is probably rampant speculation)

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Oooh, okay.  Does he dye/trim his eyebrows then?  I don't recall Shallan mentioning him having the distinctive long/white eyebrows of the Thaylens.  (Though she doesn't describe Taravangian having them either, which I *think* he would since Kharbranth is located in what was once Thalath, so he'd probably be ethnically Thaylen?  Though that is probably rampant speculation)

 

Yeah, according to the Silver Kingdoms epoc map Kharbranth was in Thalath but it's also been Vorin for a long time as one of the "five Vorin Kingdoms". I guess the royal family could be of Thaylen decent but could also be the decent of some opportunist Vorin family. It probably has pretty mixed bloodlines these days.

 

It should be noted that Mrall (Taravangian's "bodyguard") is Thaylen and shaves his eyebrows and head.

 

It would be interesting to know what information Androtagia had on Mraize to speculatively connect him to the epigraph quote. Could be pretty juicy :)

 

On Mraize's origins, Shallan can't place his accent and never speculates on his ethnicity that I can see. To Shallan, "Mraize" is a non-Vorin term that she finds hard to pronounce. I'd be surprised if he's not in some kind of disguise though so his physical description (tall, darkhaired, violet eyes and battered) might not mean too much. If he's not deliberately disguising his accent too then I'd suspect that he's been outside long enough to lose his accent. As far as I can tell there's just two things to connect him to being Thaylen - his name/title and use of the term 'babsk' (both of which could also be borrowed). I don't remember him referencing any other Thaylen things like the Passions, unless "to hunt or be hunted" is a Thaylen thing.

 

Anyone got anything else...?

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I think it's pretty clear in the book that Mraize is from Thaylenah.

 

I read this and then I just stopped. I had read all the above cited references before, but it was still like a slap in the face.

Edited by lizard-crab-thing
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I think it's pretty clear in the book that Mraize is from Thaylenah.

 

I don't think it's clear. 

 

I think a case can be made, but I not picking it up is entirely forgivable. Prior to this comment, I assumed he was a worldhopper from another world, perhaps one we hadn't seen. Especially because a distinct lack of mention of eyebrows. But in general, Shallan associates him with Hoid rather than the numerous Thaylens she knows.

 

But,  I suppose that's a good thing.

Edited by Savanorn
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There's nothing that says Mraize was not born in Thaylenah then abducted by the Seventeenth Shard. He then spent his life wandering around the cosmere and did not speak Alethi, thus explaining his accent. He has now returned to Roshar and adopted the previously mentioned traits of the Thaylen.

;)

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There's nothing that says Mraize was not born in Thaylenah then abducted by the Seventeenth Shard. He then spent his life wandering around the cosmere and did not speak Alethi, thus explaining his accent. He has now returned to Roshar and adopted the previously mentioned traits of the Thaylen.

;)

Seems plausable to me ;)

thumbs up!

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Admittedly, I don't think it's even possible to guess who the "wanderer" is. The writing is so vague (deliberately vague, in fact) that any male person- on or off Roshar- could be him, just as long as his presence throws a wrench into Taravangian's speculations.

Edited by mckeedee123
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