Wax can burn Pewter

[ReaderAt2046]

In the battle at the Vanisher's lair, Wax temporarily gets a burst of extra strength, which runs out when he was confronting Miles inside the speed bubble. Now, this sounds a lot like when Vin is unconsciously burning pewter during the fight with Camon. So, my theory is that Wax's earring grants him Pewter Allomancy. Either he had just a trace of pewter in his system, or Harmony was fueling his Allomancy directly, like Vin did in HoA.

[CrazyRioter]

did you post this theory on TvTropes? because somebody did. it's definitely a distinct possibility.

[ReaderAt2046]

Of course not!

[Kurkistan]

Nice theory. It might also go to explain why Wax could lift his guns above his head while tapping weight during the wedding fight. I certainly like the idea of Harmony fueling pewter Allomancy through the mists more than the mists just magically (yes, I recognize the irony) invigorating him.

[CrazyRioter]

Nice theory. It might also go to explain why Wax could lift his guns above his head while tapping weight during the wedding fight. I certainly like the idea of Harmony fueling pewter Allomancy through the mists more than the mists just magically (yes, I recognize the irony) invigorating him.

note that Wax wasn't wearing the earring during that particular scene (he only wears it during prayer and when planning to do something significant).

[Kurkistan]

note that Wax wasn't wearing the earring during that particular scene (he only wears it during prayer and when planning to do something significant).

Thanks for catching me there. I got a bit too enthusiastic about trying to fix the apparent inconsistency in that scene.

[callumke]

I just got the feeling that Harmony was generically giving Wax a bit of help. But perhaps a pewter earring fuelled by Harmony makes more sense.

I like the theory a lot.

[fyodor]

Nice theory. It might also go to explain why Wax could lift his guns above his head while tapping weight during the wedding fight. I certainly like the idea of Harmony fueling pewter Allomancy through the mists more than the mists just magically (yes, I recognize the irony) invigorating him.

I'm betting that this is just an author screwup or out-of-sequence narrative. IIRC in one of the arm-lifting scenes he's at one-hundred times weight. Even with pewter, this would seem like too much strength.

[ReaderAt2046]

I'm betting that this is just an author screwup or out-of-sequence narrative. IIRC in one of the arm-lifting scenes he's at one-hundred times weight. Even with pewter, this would seem like too much strength.

Making yourself heavier also makes your muscles and bones stronger. Otherwise your own weight wou

[Kurkistan]

Making yourself heavier also makes your muscles and bones stronger. Otherwise your own weight wou

No, actually. This is discussed ad nauseum here, but to summarize: We've seen Sazed's limbs feeling heavier and harder to move when he taps weight, and Wax stays at 75% in order to be "lighter on his feet," neither or which would be the case if strength was stored/tapped along with weight.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Kurkistan

[CrazyRioter]

well obviously his body has got to be strengthened to some degree, otherwise he'd squish himself under his own weight. kind of a Required Secondary Power there. it just seems like it doesn't completely compensate for extreme amounts of tapped weight, so it makes it harder to move.

[Commander Spoonface]

No, actually. This is discussed ad nauseum here, but to summarize: We've seen Sazed's limbs feeling heavier and harder to move when he taps weight, and Wax stays at 75% in order to be "lighter on his feet," neither or which would be the case if strength was stored/tapped along with weight.

It only mentions the proportional increase in strength when he's tapping weight. His strength doesn't necessarily decrease when he's filling his ironmind, which would allow him to be lighter on his feet while he stores weight.

[Kurkistan]

It only mentions the proportional increase in strength when he's tapping weight. His strength doesn't necessarily decrease when he's filling his ironmind, which would allow him to be lighter on his feet while he stores weight.

First of all, an increase in strength while tapping weight without a proportional decrease in strength while storing would be highly atypical for Feruchemy. It's my understanding that the "increase in strength" that stops Wax's body from becoming jam when he taps weight is entirely structural, and could be feasibly mirrored by a proportional decrease in structural strength when storing. Or it could be the case that Iron Feruchemy simply locks your constituent parts into the relative positions that they normally occupy, as I assume in this post.

Also, we have seen that strength does not increase proportionally when tapping weight. These two posts discussing Sazed in the thread I linked to show that quite clearly.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Kurkistan

[Commander Spoonface]

First of all, an increase in strength while tapping weight without a proportional decrease in strength while storing would be highly atypical for Feruchemy. It's my understanding that the "increase in strength" that stops Wax's body from becoming jam when he taps weight is entirely structural, and could be feasibly mirrored by a proportional decrease in structural strength when storing. Or it could be the case that Iron Feruchemy simply locks your constituent parts into the relative positions that they normally occupy, as I assume in this post.

Also, we have seen that strength does not increase proportionally when tapping weight. These two posts discussing Sazed in the thread I linked to show that quite clearly.

1)Why would it be atypical of Feruchemy? As far as I remember, (though I admit my memory can be an untrustworthy source) we've never seen that storing attributes always has an exactly opposite effect to tapping them.

2)Proportionally doesn't necessarily mean 1 to 1. If it increases at a lower rate, say a 75% increase of strength for a 100% increase of weight, Wax would still have enough strength not to be crushed and raise his arms, but also feel the excess weight. If the ratio works like that, then at some point an Iron ferring might be able to tap enough weight to crush themselves, though I suspect it might need to be an iron compounder to achieve that result.

I think you're right about the first part, though. It wouldn't really make sense. To explain Wax's Foot-Lightness (a term that would be a good name for a band), think of it this way: If the rate is 3:4, then running at 75% weight=storing 25% weight, which equals a 25% of 75% strength decrease.

Okay, that didn't make a lot of sense. For simplicity's sake, let's say that Wax weighs 100 AHU's (Arbitrary Hypothetical Units), and that his strength can be measured in 100 EAHU (Extremely Arbitrary Hypothetical Units). When he's storing 25% weight, he weighs 75 AHU's. Assuming a proportion of 3:4, that means his strength is being decreased by 75% of 25, or 18.75 EAHU's. So Wax still has 81.25% of his strength. Overall, his strength has decreased noticeably less than his weight, meaning Wax's Foot-Lightness is preserved. As Wax stores more weight, the discrepancy becomes even greater.

Of course, the rate is probably not 3:4, if I had to guess, I'd say it's closer to 6:10. That's immaterial anyway, the "Too Long, Didn't Read" version of this post is that weight increase/decrease and proportional strength increase/decrease can be explained with a rate that's not 1:1.

[Kurkistan]

1)Why would it be atypical of Feruchemy? As far as I remember, (though I admit my memory can be an untrustworthy source) we've never seen that storing attributes always has an exactly opposite effect to tapping them.

2)Proportionally doesn't necessarily mean 1 to 1. If it increases at a lower rate, say a 75% increase of strength for a 100% increase of weight, Wax would still have enough strength not to be crushed and raise his arms, but also feel the excess weight. If the ratio works like that, then at some point an Iron ferring might be able to tap enough weight to crush themselves, though I suspect it might need to be an iron compounder to achieve that result.

I think you're right about the first part, though. It wouldn't really make sense. To explain Wax's Foot-Lightness (a term that would be a good name for a band), think of it this way: If the rate is 3:4, then running at 75% weight=storing 25% weight, which equals a 25% of 75% strength decrease.

Okay, that didn't make a lot of sense. For simplicity's sake, let's say that Wax weighs 100 AHU's (Arbitrary Hypothetical Units), and that his strength can be measured in 100 EAHU (Extremely Arbitrary Hypothetical Units). When he's storing 25% weight, he weighs 75 AHU's. Assuming a proportion of 3:4, that means his strength is being decreased by 75% of 25, or 18.75 EAHU's. So Wax still has 81.25% of his strength. Overall, his strength has decreased noticeably less than his weight, meaning Wax's Foot-Lightness is preserved. As Wax stores more weight, the discrepancy becomes even greater.

Of course, the rate is probably not 3:4, if I had to guess, I'd say it's closer to 6:10. That's immaterial anyway, the "Too Long, Didn't Read" version of this post is that weight increase/decrease and proportional strength increase/decrease can be explained with a rate that's not 1:1.

1) I can't recall any attribute in Feruchemy which does not have exactly opposite effects for storing/tapping, actually, and the idea that you get back what you put in is pretty much there from the get-go.

2) You're right there, that "proportional" doesn't mean 1 to 1. However, I must disagree about your "3:4" argument, or any meaningful "x:y" proportion. Note in this post how Wax is "moon walking" at 1/2 weight. This would suggest that, even if your proportion exists, it is still small enough that Wax factors in the weight of his clothing when considering how hard it is to walk. If the proportion is that small, then I don't see a x100 Wax having enough excess strength to lift his arms, which is basically the entire justification for any argument suggesting increased strength from Iron Feruchemy. I'm going to go with fyodor here and call it a mistake.

[fyodor]

well obviously his body has got to be strengthened to some degree, otherwise he'd squish himself under his own weight. kind of a Required Secondary Power there. it just seems like it doesn't completely compensate for extreme amounts of tapped weight, so it makes it harder to move.

There's a pretty comprehensive discussion of this in the linked-to-thread. But basically, the descriptions seem to describe the user getting an increase in structural strength but not movement-strength. So the bones/connective tissues are stronger so that he does not literally fall apart, but the user does not have any increased ability to move.

[fyodor]

1)Why would it be atypical of Feruchemy? As far as I remember, (though I admit my memory can be an untrustworthy source) we've never seen that storing attributes always has an exactly opposite effect to tapping them.

Virtually every description, from the AoL Ars Arcanum to Sazed and Kelsier's descriptions emphasize it as energy neutral and emphasize that every benefit comes with a corresponding cost.User must put in what they get out.

Half Ruin and half Preservation. It would pretty badly mess up the balance of the art to have something that doesn't operate in the reverse.

[fyodor]

I'll also add that we never see the characters performing any actual feats of strength while heavy. They're able to mimic some feats of strength by selectively increasing their weight after generating velocity (Wax knocking down the door, Sazed closing the gate). But they always generate speed while still light and then increase their mass to have higher momentum.

[Pechvarry]

Hey, I'm gonna talk about Wax burning pewter now.

In the battle at the Vanisher's lair, Wax temporarily gets a burst of extra strength, which runs out when he was confronting Miles inside the speed bubble. Now, this sounds a lot like when Vin is unconsciously burning pewter during the fight with Camon. So, my theory is that Wax's earring grants him Pewter Allomancy. Either he had just a trace of pewter in his system, or Harmony was fueling his Allomancy directly, like Vin did in HoA.

My only problem with the theory: Vin burned metals unconsciously because she didn't understand anything about allomancy. Allomancers, even those burning a metal they've never burned before, recognize a new power source when given one to burn. Vin could sense it when she ate new metals, and Spook figured out pretty quick that what he swallowed wasn't Tin.

Though I suppose Spook needed a Kelsier-Ruin ghost to tell him to burn it. But when he DID burn it, he instantly knew what he was doing. It seems like a fella as smart as Wax would notice when he's burning 2 metals instead of 1.

It was a very hectic moment in his life, though, so it's still quite possible.

[Arcanist Lupus]

Hey, I'm gonna talk about Wax burning pewter now.

My only problem with the theory: Vin burned metals unconsciously because she didn't understand anything about allomancy. Allomancers, even those burning a metal they've never burned before, recognize a new power source when given one to burn. Vin could sense it when she ate new metals, and Spook figured out pretty quick that what he swallowed wasn't Tin.

Though I suppose Spook needed a Kelsier-Ruin ghost to tell him to burn it. But when he DID burn it, he instantly knew what he was doing. It seems like a fella as smart as Wax would notice when he's burning 2 metals instead of 1.

It was a very hectic moment in his life, though, so it's still quite possible.

If the mists were fueling the Allomancy, it might not be as obvious as it is with metal.

[Kurkistan]

If the mists were fueling the Allomancy, it might not be as obvious as it is with metal.

I don't have my copy, but can somebody check the Elend vs Marsh fight scene in HoA to check how it was described?

[ReaderAt2046]

Also, Spook had full Pewter Allomancy. Wax probably just has a trace.

[Commander Spoonface]

I don't know exactly where I could find a citation, but I seem to remember someone in these forums saying Brandon had confirmed Wax's earrings were hemalurgic spikes.

[ReaderAt2046]

Agreed. What I was wondering is what the spike gives him.

[CrazyRioter]

I don't know exactly where I could find a citation, but I seem to remember someone in these forums saying Brandon had confirmed Wax's earrings were hemalurgic spikes.

that was me yeah, I asked him what metal it was made of at the Vancouver signing, he refused to tell me, but he did say it's got a slight hemalurgic charge. He also wrote in my book that it's made from a melted down Inquisitor spike.

Edited December 22, 2011 by CrazyRioter